Bachelor 25 - Matt James - Media SM - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

mbl wrote:@gabriele I think they wanted a White woman too as the Bette, and that’s why I’m suggesting that Rachael may have been who they wanted.  Assuming RS’s info today is accurate, why would Matt go on the full LCD with Michelle but cancel on Rachael? Why didn’t he cancel both LCDs? If TPTB were happy with Matt choosing Rachael, why did they have him cancel his LCD with her?

Those are all good questions and I am not sure of the answers. I agree that Matt probably wasn’t actually looking for a wife and so his dad showing up only reinforced that feeling. Most leads do get engaged so he may have been planning to do so but figured it’d just be for however long the relationship lasted. I’m not sure about that. After seeing his dad he may have felt less pressure to go on the date with Michelle because he knew he wasn’t going to choose her. He may have also just forced himself to go on any date despite being upset and then realized he was not in the right headspace to do so again. Also, maybe he freaked a bit about Rachael because he was always going to pick her but now was really having a hard time with the idea of getting engaged.

I think TPTB don’t realize, or maybe they don’t care, that they can only promote just so much drama before the show completely implodes like we are currently seeing. jmo

It all sounds weird. When news first hit about Rachael as F1 and the whole town knowing about it, I said, “Feels like Chantal O on Brad Womack’s season spoiler.” I immediately thought after looking at Michelle’s info, her IG that she was trying to preserve her privacy as an educator. What better way to fly under the radar than to be suspected F2. No one showing up at her school or bugging her sweet parents. I still feel this way.
Matt’s after show persona seems to be a little more militant, activist. He seems to be aligning more with black issues and it makes you wonder what the “inspiration” is. I believe he’s become somewhat affiliated with Lebron James’ foundation which has a new school in Akron Ohio. He’s been highlighting teachers, especially black teachers and even Ms Patty, his mom is following the foundation. Not to mention, seems like Matt is morphing into Lebron with that beard and beanie look, ! When asked on Talking it Out what team he’d like to play for, he said “Cleveland Browns” an Ohio team. Y’all, what if he and Michelle are planning work together with the foundation in Ohio?! I know, I’m projecting A Lot! But it’s possible... Btw, Patty liked the photo oh Matt and Michelle on Carey Fetman’s IG. She’s mostly only like solo pics of him.
I have more on the brain, but I’m at work so can’t get it all out right now...

mbl wrote:@CHO What do you mean by hi-lighting Bri?

Also, you hang around your F2 because it’s easier, then give the harsh reality of cancelling a date to your F1 just to tell her that you want to be with her and can’t imagine life without her? I can’t believe that Matt would willingly sabotage his image like that.  IMO

Mbl -
Bri's order in arriving on night 1 was changed to show her as the first one arriving. Sleuthers showed that she was not the first - there were no other girls left in the limo. Why ?
She was given the first rose on night one after the fir.
She was given the first one on one date.

This just seemed to be unusual - other than if it was to distract us ...

That old saying "you make your bed and then lie in it" certainly applies to this season. So messy. I feel badly for so many of the contestants, although after listening to Abigail on Kaitlyn's Off the Vine Podcast, she says meeting so many amazing women who've become close friends is life changing.

So, on yet another Reddit sub there is info about Ashley S. having spoken at an Azalea Belles party. All these Southern Belle/Antebellum/plantation parties have racist roots regardless of what clothes people wore.

Then, I read on Nick’s season there was a group date at a plantation that both Rachel L and Taylor Nolan attended. Seriously? Is that true? If so, I cannot believe TPTB did that.

Honestly, you can’t make this stuff up. I will watch ATFR and then I don’t think I’ll even read online about the show/contestants anymore.

GuardianAngel wrote:IMO Matt didn't propose because he knew he was not proposing to anyone.

Matt broke up with Rachel because he was not in love with her and she wasn't worth fighting for after the poop hit the fan. jmo If he really cared for her, no way would he have cancelled the date.

Matt, like I said when he was announced as TB imo had no plans on getting engaged and getting married. I kept wishing for a love story for him, but in no way expected one.

Talk about wrong reasons, they chose a lead all for the wrong reasons IMO.

I agree with you. Even if leads go on for a variety of reasons, I like to think that they are open to the idea of falling in love. But I don't think that was the case with Matt. If RS's spoiler is correct, Matt's behavior was very odd indeed.

gabriele wrote:@mbl It sounds like they always wanted Katie for the Bachelorette. The dildo is right up their alley and they can spin it as being sex positive. They just want something that will create drama. Rachael has too much baggage, and she didn’t come across as very interesting from what they showed of her.

I think they purposely hid the personalities of the WOC so viewers wouldn’t want them as B’ette. They didn’t with Michelle because she probably doesn’t want to give up teaching. I think Bri would definitely be the B’ette if she were white and she would have been featured a lot more. I doubt they offered the B’ette to any of the WOC but who knows. I don’t know why they didn’t make Matt keep Katie longer though. jmo

Most teachers I know would be open to taking the lead role. As much as we love our kids, a teacher will have at least a couple of decades or more to do the work. One year off won't hurt. The money that a lead gets would be persuasive to a teacher who may be struggling with student loans and graduate school tuition. Also, it can be difficult to meet a guy as an elementary teacher. Finally, teaching is a job that can be very mobile in your youth. You can pack up and go anywhere, or do something else for a while and then come back to it.

@Amethyst would a teacher have a hard time getting hired after being the lead with all the makeouts and FSs?

gabriele wrote:So, on yet another Reddit sub there is info about Ashley S. having spoken at an Azalea Belles party. All these Southern Belle/Antebellum/plantation parties have racist roots regardless of what clothes people wore.

Then, I read on Nick’s season there was a group date at a plantation that both Rachel L and Taylor Nolan attended. Seriously? Is that true? If so, I cannot believe TPTB did that.

Honestly, you can’t make this stuff up. I will watch ATFR and then I don’t think I’ll even read online about the show/contestants anymore.

Ashley Spivey answered to that in a series of stories. She says she spoke at the Azalea Festival, a flower and garden show in Wilmington NC. The “Azalea Belles” were part of the festival at the time, but she had nothing to do with them. She provided evidence and said “I’m just laughing that this is what they were blackmailing me with”.
https://www.instagram.com/stories/ashleyspivey
It makes me even more suspicious about the timing of the Taylor reveal (not that it takes away from what she did). Someone seems to be digging up dirt on anyone who speaks against CH, and that someone is pretty good at it. Did CH hire a pro himself, did TPTB do it, or is it just one of the many racists out there who has decided to take on the “woke police”?

Rachel and Taylor were not at the group date at the Houmas House Plantation, but Jasmine Goode was. I’m not sure if the contestants realized where they were at the time, because it was all about how the house was haunted by this little white girl (not by the hundreds of murdered slaves). It wasn’t talked about much at the time. A few outlets like Huffington Post called it out, but that was it.

I can’t watch now because Bach Archive is in trouble, and I’m not too mad about it.
All JMO

blueblues wrote:

gabriele wrote:So, on yet another Reddit sub there is info about Ashley S. having spoken at an Azalea Belles party. All these Southern Belle/Antebellum/plantation parties have racist roots regardless of what clothes people wore.

Then, I read on Nick’s season there was a group date at a plantation that both Rachel L and Taylor Nolan attended. Seriously? Is that true? If so, I cannot believe TPTB did that.

Honestly, you can’t make this stuff up. I will watch ATFR and then I don’t think I’ll even read online about the show/contestants anymore.

Ashley Spivey answered to that in a series of stories. She says she spoke at the Azalea Festival, a flower and garden show in Wilmington NC. The “Azalea Belles” were part of the festival at the time, but she had nothing to do with them. She provided evidence and said “I’m just laughing that this is what they were blackmailing me with”.
https://www.instagram.com/stories/ashleyspivey
It makes me even more suspicious about the timing of the Taylor reveal (not that it takes away from what she did). Someone seems to be digging up dirt on anyone who speaks against CH, and that someone is pretty good at it. Did CH hire a pro himself, did TPTB do it, or is it just one of the many racists out there who has decided to take on the “woke police”?

Rachel and Taylor were not at the group date at the Houmas House Plantation, but Jasmine Goode was. I’m not sure if the contestants realized where they were at the time, because it was all about how the house was haunted by this little white girl (not by the hundreds of murdered slaves). It wasn’t talked about much at the time. A few outlets like Huffington Post called it out, but that was it.

I can’t watch now because Bach Archive is in trouble, and I’m not too mad about it.
All JMO

There are definitely people on this one particular Reddit sub, BachelorNation, that are digging up dirt on those opposing CH. That doesn’t mean what they dig up isn’t racist and problematic. Personally, I think it’s important to not take sides wherever the racism is coming from. I don’t care if it’s from Rachael, CH, HB, Taylor Nolan or Ashley Spivey—it’s still racism.

Thanks for the corrected info on the group date on Nick’s season. I don’t know who Jasmine is.

As for the Azalea Festival that Spivey spoke at think of it like this. I’m going to use an extreme example to make my point.  I follow Jesus. Now, I’m not from the South but say I grew up and lived there. And, say I was part of an extremely conservative sect and was a speaker at an annual church conference that had a group of the KKK there that also had a role in the conference. Would my involvement in said conference be racist? I certainly think so and at the least it’d be highly problematic. If you or others want to disagree that’s fine and we can agree to disagree. I don’t have the desire to comment on it further. Eta: the party Rachael went to was called a Rose Ball or Rose Belle—I can’t remember which right now—and also took place in a garden. They just change the names but these parties/events still all have racist roots.

The sense I get is all these Southern Belle/Antebellum/plantation/Rose/Azalea events—the name of the events isn’t the important part—are so common in the South that people participate in them because so many others they know do so as well and it’s their tradition. They are probably ignorant as to how racist these events are. They may know on some level these events are wrong but don’t really grasp the weight of it and just go along with what their peers are doing.  

The point isn’t to cancel or condemn anyone but to say what they are doing is wrong and to hopefully educate them. Everyone needs some space to be able to deal with their behaviors. None of us are perfect or have arrived. jmo

IMO, the show's GD was all about the "haunted" aspect and not the actual plantation history. Personally, I think the problem is more when an event is glorifying the time when slaves were used. I've toured many a plantation when I lived in Tennessee and I'm sure there could be a photo somewhere. I've also seen the slave quarters, including from former presidents, and found it very eye opening and it made me really think about the huge cost of running those beautiful homes (and I don't mean money). This is all JMO.

My family drove from PA to Fl for a "big" vacay one year when I was 10 or so.  I remember riding through SC and seeing black people picking cotton and being very upset thinking they were slaves.  My dad explained they may be day laborers or share croppers.  He was a union official and found the working conditions awful also.  We were Catholic and he was thrown out of a motel lobby in Ala. on our way home for asking about where we could go to Mass the next day.  It all made an indelible mark on me and to this day I still remember vivid details.  We saw plantations and such and thus began my awakening to all the sad/awful history there.  No place or time is perfect but I still cringe when any of these "traditions" are used for "entertainment".