Hannah Brown - Bachelorette 15 - Discussion #2

IMO it’s up to the black people that felt offended to determine if the apology from Hannah was sufficient. IMO non black people on SM telling these black people to deal with it, at least she apologized, move on are just contributing to the issue. Racial issues in America IMO will never subside until the majority start listening to how minorities feel about certain issues whether or not the majority agree with how it’s being appropriated. I don’t have to agree with people but I sure will make my darnest effort to understand their point of view when I have not walked in their shoe for one day in my life.....all jmho based on catching up on a few things I have read on this ongoing topic on SM today so not addressed to anyone here...TYIA.

FLChica wrote:

Al wrote:

FLChica wrote:I've always found use of the N-word to be offensive, whether its directed at a POC or used by a POC. Being culturally aware is  learned behavior and complicated as well IMO. Many don't understand why "white" people can help make multi-millionaires out of artists that sing these words by buying their products, watching their podcasts and attending their concerts, but must stop short of saying "the word" from the lyrics.

*Snipped*

The bottom half I bolded makes it seem like just because white people buy and listen to this music, it gives them the right to say the word. I've seen so many POC who were insulted over Hannah's use of the word, I feel uncomfortable with people trying to justify it just because it's a song lyric. Imo.

I bolded the first words of my post to make it very clear that I've always found the word to be offensive. That includes the prolific use of the word in music by POC. Perhaps you didn't direct your statement about "people trying to justify it" at me, but there's no attempt on my part to justify the use of the word by anyone, for any reason, at any time.

I choose to self-censor while listening to music or when watching movies and ridiculous reality tv shows. It's my choice and not one that I would try to impose on others. There are undoubtedly POC that were offended by Hannah choosing to sing that word. She posted an apology accepting full accountability for that poor choice with no attempt to justify how or why it happened. Not my opinion; her words.

Yes @FLChica, I noticed that, which is why I bolded what I did. I was responding about those many people you mentioned. I'll re-work the wording of the post a bit to make that more clear.

mercieme wrote:IMO it’s up to the black people that felt offended to determine if the apology from Hannah was sufficient. IMO non black people on SM telling these black people to deal with it, at least she apologized, move on are just contributing to the issue. Racial issues in America IMO will never subside until the majority start listening to how minorities feel about certain issues whether or not the majority agree with how it’s being appropriated. I don’t have to agree with people but I sure will make my darnest effort to understand their point of view when I have not walked in their shoe for one day in my life.....all jmho based on catching up on a few things I have read on this ongoing topic on SM today so not addressed to anyone here...TYIA.

@mercieme
Your perspective is so smart and insightful and fair and just amazing. You are such a boss!
All IMO.

Chgohighlife wrote:

mercieme wrote:IMO it’s up to the black people that felt offended to determine if the apology from Hannah was sufficient. IMO non black people on SM telling these black people to deal with it, at least she apologized, move on are just contributing to the issue. Racial issues in America IMO will never subside until the majority start listening to how minorities feel about certain issues whether or not the majority agree with how it’s being appropriated. I don’t have to agree with people but I sure will make my darnest effort to understand their point of view when I have not walked in their shoe for one day in my life.....all jmho based on catching up on a few things I have read on this ongoing topic on SM today so not addressed to anyone here...TYIA.

@mercieme
Your perspective is so smart and insightful and fair and just amazing. You are such a boss!
All IMO.

So many thoughtful posts from BN on the subject of racism and use of that word, especially by POC, over the last two days and the woman who actually used the racial slur spent all of five minutes typing out a short apology that didn’t even acknowledge what she’d done & has since disappeared from her stories. At the very least, you’d think she could ask her fans that are attacking Rachel & everyone else that has weighed in to stop. I always felt like Hannah was extremely self-absorbed, which along with her lack of depth, caused me to never warm to her, but even I was shocked that her immediate reaction was to throw her brother under the bus. Way to be a coward and back out on talking to Rachel rather than trying to turn this into an educational moment for herself & others. The irony that she was throwing shade at Jed & Luke recently a dang year later. We’ll see if she’s been humbled at all.

@Emeralds I stand by my previous words. But regarding Hannah's lack of further apology I don't fault her for not rushing in giving one or explaining further. If indeed we wish this to be a humbling and educational experience for her then time is also valued, to give more thought to it and choose the words wisely (what she didn't do that night).
Also I don't think Hannah has any obligation in accepting Rachel's invitation to use both platforms and discuss the issue. They talked, probably exchanged their POVs, maybe HB apologized to her in person and promised to speak to her again about it or voiced intention to do the live with Rachel, but if later that day she wasn't feeling herself to be able to talk in public (to Rachel or anyone) I don't feel like accusing her of being a coward. I can only assume how she might feel, so I won't give an explanation that is hers to give.
Does she have an obligation and responsibility to speak about it, apologize and educate her followers - I believe so, yes. But I'm not the judge on whether it should have been yesterday or today or should she do it tomorrow. I just hope when she does speak, it comes from the heart, genuine and real. And I agree with @mercieme it's up to people who felt disrespected/offended -POC- to decide whether they accept that apology or not.
Maybe doing live with Rachel would actually be less damaging regarding HB's image had she spoken up sooner, but I don't think image itself it's what counts now. It's the lesson itself. For Hannah and for her followers who don't seem to ask themselves right questions and continue to write ignorant excuses for unacceptable behavior.

I'm really fired by this topic, so bear with one more post with me. But I'm reading so much ignorance online that I just don't know where to vent From my posts you can understand I'm not POC, actually funny thing about my start on this BN forum was asking questions about POC, because I grew up in a country that is predominantly white (in my city alone I know only of 5 people) and I wasn't even sure if referring to them as "black" was right or was I being offensive. But I always understood diversity and prejudice, despite not living in a very diverse culture, but having a father from another country (and as you all know, each country has it's "South" that they look down to) and I experienced negativity solely because of my surname that doesn't belong to the country I was born in. For some that alone makes me less of a citizen of my own country. I used to go to Catholic high school, where I studied Bible even if I'm not religious, but I am open to understand the faith and it was my choice to attend that school and sadly, that was the sentiment of some of my professors there, who never dared to say it to me, but they talked negatively about sportsmen who just like me didn't have "right surname". And I am not a part of a minority, yet people don't accept "different" and deny the past (that used to unite the countries). So not learning history was always my peeve with people.

Reading "white" people indignation for "double standard" who can and cannot sing/say N word. The message is clear, white people came up with that derogatory word, they used that word to oppress, denigrate and disrespect. Why would ANY white person in this day and age want to say that word is ... unexplainable to me.
And if POC want to still use it, to claim it, to mock it (the word and the disrespect that came with it) it's their right I guess, after all, as a white person I shouldn't have any say on what word they want to call each other with. But it is also sad noticing that some young generation of POC seem to not understand the meaning behind this word either. That's telling something to the community too. It's a responsibility of all of us to be better educated.

@happygolucky With all due respect, Hannah made no attempt to apologize that night. She first denied saying the word (she managed to censor the F-word & her voice got quieter when she said the N-word so she knew what she was doing) & then she tried to throw her brother, who is fresh out of rehab, under the bus before changing the subject. IMO, she intended her three sentence apology to be the end of it. After all, she got away with a racist video that mocked Asian women in the past. She made a commitment to Rachel to do the live only to back out. Rachel apparently spent considerable time trying to counsel her. Now Rachel is being attacked while Hannah does absolutely nothing. Inexcusable.

@Emeralds per my understanding (yes, I've seen the live video) Hannah didn't seem to register she said it at all. When she noticed the comments she thought they were making it up and I don't know what went through her mind when she mentioned her brother, that is her story to tell. She apologized only in case she said it, not actually believing it. I actually believe, not to justify her, that she realized later (maybe rewatching live) what she actually did. And then she waited till the next day to make a statement. And that was it. She apologized for saying it and acknowledged that it is unjustifiable and unacceptable.
That tells me that she understands now what she did and that was/is wrong.
If her fans/followers don't accept that and continue to justify and claim that she did nothing wrong ... that's on them, not on Hannah. And I say that for any following, even not BN related.

But I do agree she needs to speak out more, she needs to present the case, raise the issue, speak about the lesson ... so she can educate those who like her aren't being educated properly, or because of their own stubbernness and privilege don't want to listen to Rachel's explanation, or Tyler's ... and might actually give a minute to reflect if it comes from Hannah. That's on her, NOW that she knows better.
Not doing it when Rachel wanted her to do is not unexcusable to me. It sucks that BN fans are dragging everyone into this conversation and lash on anyone who isn't "nice and graceful" to Hannah, but some fans seem to not listen to Hannah either, because they only take what they want to take out of it, and some sadly don't want to admit own flaws.

And if POC want to still use it, to claim it, to mock it (the word and the disrespect that came with it) it's their right I guess, after all, as a white person I shouldn't have any say on what word they want to call each other with. But it is also sad noticing that some young generation of POC seem to not understand the meaning behind this word either. That's telling something to the community too. It's a responsibility of all of us to be better educated.

Wouldn't it be wise if the word wasn't used in any song or rap anymore? It's confusing. I can understand if a mistake is being made that way. POC can sing/rap that song, but if white people sing the same song it causes a lot of trouble. So why still use a word that causes all of this.

I can understand Hannah made this mistake, that it wasn't deliberately used. What I don't understand is why she posted it or didn't delete it immediately, because she was aware of it.

@Dutchy23 Personally I agree with you, I wish certain words wouldn't be used. I don't like women being called B*s, I don't like hearing girlfriends calling eachother that, not even for "empowering". That kind of words aren't it for me. BUT that said, the N-word was used against black people and IMHO it's their RIGHT to decide whether using it or not and how.
That of course brings a lot of controversy and demands a conversation again, because not all POC agree on the issue, not every black person represents black community, because the communities vary also depending on the means, possibilities, background/class, culture/state, ... it's a conversation that they should have. I've seen some disagree with the usage, yet some youngsters don't even think about the meaning when using it. That's pretty much what Hannah did. Not thinking about the meaning. So in that case I see no difference in harm done when people speak words without knowing and understanding the meaning, no matter the color.

To answer you: She was going live on IG. People saw her do it in real time. Why I also believe she really didn't grasp what she did when people started asking her in comments. She was incredulous of it all. Then got nervous and embarrassed, but still wasn't sure if what they were saying really happened.

due to the ways whites have oppressed black americans—and clearly still do in heinous ways today e.g. the runner ahmaud arbery—it is not the place of whites to then tell black people how to use language that was used to dehumanize and demean them. that is adding insult to injury. as i understand it when black people use the n word they are taking back the word used to oppress them and stripping it of its power. rather than telling black people what language to use it is a good time to listen to black voices and to learn from them.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAVctQ2A2MN/?igshid=1q7muzlytlmd2