Bachelor 24 - Peter Weber - Discussion - *NO SPOILERS* - *NO SLEUTHING*

I promised I would do my best to stay positive because after all this is a show I LOVE to watch  . . . . let’s see how I do

Getting this over with at the beginning. I don't care for the Victoria we are seeing. She may be the nicest person and TPTB are choosing to edit their conversations to look as though she is crazy, but I am confused. I don't see ANY SIGN that she likes Peter. Her responses and facial expressions can be embellished but they can't be faked. Rolling her eyes or looking completely bored at the RC then smiling and acting all shy and loving is a game. IMO her goal has always been B'ette. She likes the spotlight and attention. Nothing wrong with that, there have been many others before her, however, I don't see her "poor me" act getting her there. To me they are showing her as way to defensive and self-centered for the public wanting her as the lead.

HA is sweet. For the first time I saw a more mature side of her OR maybe it was just clear that her and Peter are on the same maturity level and seem a good fit. Her HTD went well despite Peter uttering that he is falling in love with her right after dad warned him off.

Kelsey grew on me over the season. I was not surprised to see her go nor was I too sad for her. I don't think she would have done well as F1 and all the pressure that follows the show.

Madison is a prize. She is smart, confident, beautiful inside and out, and knows what she wants. I am not sure what propelled her to go on the show. Peter does not seem to be the one for her. She has conservative values as does her family. I can see Peter loving her, but I don't see their lifestyles matching up and I see Madison being the one to point that out.

My guess this week: HannahAnn is F2 and Peter is left going after Madison or Victoria as his F1.

What I would like: HannahAnn is F1, Madison F2 (takes herself out before FRC and is next B’ette) and Victoria is F3.

Madison is young but it would be refreshing to see if they could find some stand-up guys for her. The great B’ette seasons have always been more about compatibility, mutual feelings, and finding a long term relationship.

@veg_out and @albean99 Great thoughts on Victoria and Peter dynamic/possible outcome.  Maybe she is the best pick for him because as you said it doesn't look like any of the relationship choices have long term potential.

I'm starting to think that Peter might pull a Brad and not pick anyone at the FRC, especially if someone he wants leaves. Maybe he'll date the f2 like a previous bachelor did?

If that doesn't happen, I could see Hannah Ann as f3, and a tossup for f1 with a slight lean to Madison - if she doesn't take herself out which I hope she does for her sake. Peter doesn't seem like he's what she says she's looking for.

Bachelorette: I could see them picking one of the young ones - Hannah Ann, Madison, or McKenna but I hope not. One, they're so so very young and the most mature one, Madison, doesn't seem like a good fit because of what she wants in a guy. My hope is that they'll go older, either Kelley or Natasha from this season or Tayshia or Katie Morton. I'm really hoping that it won't be Hannah B. She doesn't seem to make good choices under pressure and has been on our tv's enough, imo.

@albean99 Oh please no Hannah B return    I know many believe she had the "girl power, take no BS" attitude but to me she was just too overpowering and in your face. IMO she needs to calm down before she is going to find a guy that wants more than just a night in a windmill. More screen time is only going to inflate the ego. (sorry, not a fan, never was)

You could be right about Peter not picking anyone at FRC, but I only see that happening if his F1 leaves on their own. He seems a bit desperate but I don't know if it's enough to pick someone he doesn't care for as much as person who left. He has been naive throughout this process and made some bad decisions but I don't see him intentionally hurting anyone by starting a relationship while being hung up on another. I am sticking with my theory that there will be filming after the FRC and we will get a bit of a "story" like with C&C. Whether they end up together or are still together now - I don't have a feeling either way.

I don't even recall what previews are for tonight.  I wish they would double up episodes and do the WTA this week so we can get this season over and get a B'ette picked.

The main question running through my mind during this episode was "Where is the love?" I really have few positive words about Peter to say and am struggling to muster up the desire to see this season through to its finale.

Madi, you deserve the world. Hold that head high, sweet one.

1. It annoys me that they put the women in the suite solely to torment Madi. They knew that the others would come back from their dates in the morning. There's a reason that the women are kept apart for the FD.

2. Peter clearly isn't ready for a real relationship if he thinks that it's a good thing for him to be with Victoria. I hope his parents have a talk with him although why does a 27 yr old need that?

3. Hannah Ann is a sweet young woman but please don't let her be the Bachelorette.

4. I think Madi did the right thing by sticking to her beliefs however I do think she handled it badly leading up to that. She should have told Peter that she's saving herself for marriage earlier and what she did say came across as an ultimatum even if she really didn't mean it that way.

5. It seemed to me that Peter has the strongest feelings for Madi although I don't believe it's love for any of them. If he really was in love with her then he wouldn't have been intimate with anyone else. I know that others have done it before him but it doesn't make it a good idea if you know what you want. He would say that he didn't, I guess.  

I'm not watching the WTA. I don't really see any point. I will watch the finale and will be happy to put this season to rest. This might be my least favorite.

I am totally missing something this season. What part of Peter/Vic is good and healthy?? I know sometimes TPTB have to hide an obvious connection w/F1 in order to keep the show going but if she is F1 they have taken it to a whole new level. I sure haven't gotten to see the love story I crave. All I know of Victoria is she draws out the last syllable of many words and she felt under appreciated in her last relationship. Did they show that clip at the end as a clue or to throw me off . . . .

I know FSD are often assumed to be intimate, however I don't think they should be considered a "test drive", which is how Peter seems to approach them.

HA went in with eyes wide open and I was impressed with her openness about the process and believing in what she and Peter have. She is the first one I recall directly approaching the subject and having that view. Kudos to her for being a confident woman. Some may not look at it like that, but I feel she came from a place that says, "Peter, I am in love with you, I am not holding back. I am giving you heart and body, if you don't choose me I may break a little but I will get over you and move on to someone more deserving." (in my mind that is what she was thinking!!! LOL)

As far as Madi goes, was it fair for her to tell him that if he slept with others she would leave? HELLS YES! She was being honest. Peter went on and on about how HA and Vic said they love him but Madi didn't and he was waiting for that reassurance from her, then after she tells him the reassurance she needs he goes and does the opposite  I get it she should know the shows format, but sorry I don't see what she said as an ultimatum.  She stated a fact; she wouldn't be able to get engaged to a guy who slept with someone else 6 days prior.

Once again for me, Colton set the bar. I understand every season can't go that way, but dude, if you are feeling that strongly about someone and they ask you not to sleep with others and you can't wait it out then don't be surprised by the consequences. I almost feel like it was a slap in the face to the other girls when he apologized for it, although you have to have a bit of regret to be truly sorry and I don't think Peter regrets any part of it. IMO he was just saying whatever it might take to get Madi to stay.

Madi for Bachelorette

@albean99 and @locoforbach, interesting insights!

Some thoughts on the season since I'm losing interest:
In episode 2, the show left in Peter's comment, "I don't know if I'm ready for this." Has Peter ever had a long-term serious relationship?

Of the final three women, Hannah Ann is the only contestant this season who has gone through the entire process. Peter never met Victoria's family. Madi and Peter never spent concentrated 1:1 time sans cameras. Not sure if that impacts the ending, but interesting.

Peter's conflict this season has been: "Who wants me as much as I want her?" Peter and even the girls now keep talking about fighting for love as the indicator that it's the right relationship, so whoever fights for him, too, I guess, wins  

Victoria: She finally let her guard down, they stopped arguing, and they looked very content during FSDs. Like Kelsey, Victoria's transformation and conflict have sorta resolved, so I think she's F3.

Madi: Definitely conflict here: She's gone. Does she come back? If so, when? Why? Either Madi realizes that they're incompatible on a very core issue and leaves on her own, or she "fights" for Peter but betrays herself. IMO, Peter's not ready for a Madi yet.

Hannah Ann: She's the Chris Siegfried of this season: always there, always supportive. I don't see much conflict except maybe the Madi situation starts to make HA feel unwanted. Maybe HA takes herself out, too!

I hope Peter's alone, tbh. It'd be a first for the franchise.

Anyway, go, Clare! Fun Bachelorette choice!

@albean99 and @veg_out  I was with you girls on not watching WTA. Then there I was, sitting down at 10pm with nothing better to do. I thought why not check see if could get any insight as to what will be happening next week by way of previews. Just as I was getting ready to FF through most of the show I get some Chris Harrison commentary and then a "mini-episode" showing the RC we were robbed of the week prior.

Needless to say LOTS of waiting around for Madi and SURPRISE she showed; albeit not looking happy at all  For a bit I thought Peter might not give her a rose since she seems so hesitant and the last thing he wants is to be alone and the end of this. So HA gets the first rose (she is definitely F2 in his mind) and yup Victoria is on her way out. Madi is the one he wants, hands down, nervous heart beat could be heard through mic.

WTA was just as expected, however it seems this group of girls is truly young, they were arguing over each other and swearing up a storm on live TV. Since shortly thereafter we had a lecture from Rachel about online/SM bullying I am going to refrain from any negative comments. HOWEVER, please do not go on national television and be rude and insulting and call people names and expect not to get some backlash. You girls can't be civil to one another for more than an hour - please set a good example before preaching and looking for my pity. I get you are in face-to-face conflicts but those are what fuel some of the hate. Shame on you ABC for sending such mixed signals!!

Through all the emotional drama we got to see a fairly open side of Victoria. I almost think her and Peter could reconnect if all this doesn't work out. She was gracious to him and very sincere.

Nothing much I could tell from the previews, everyone looks to be having fun on their dates, then comes a bunch of tears. There is a scene where Peter is apologizing for something and it looks to be HA but I can't be sure. Chris Harrison tells us not a single person knows how this journey will end, not even Peter. If I take his comment literally that leads me to believe nothing will be settled until the live ATFR next week.

The biggest question for me was what we didn't see last night . . . . . Kelly was missing from WTA. Reason #1 - She has washed her hands of the franchise and is back to real life.  Reason #2 - She is our big surprise in the end after Madi leaves and Peter send HA home. The only reason I don't see this happening is the deceiving preview of Peter's mom saying, "bring her home to us". Speaking of Peter's parents, I am voting them to host the Senior Edition of The Bachelor. They most definitely have bought into the spotlight

I decided to watch the RC and then the previews although I did watch the bit where Rachel came on and read some of the horrible comments to the ladies this season. It really was hard to listen to. IA with her that it's hate and not just expressing your opinion.

It really does seem like Peter's all about Madi and the ball's in her court. I'm not convinced that the ending will be shocking as CH is implying. I didn't realize it's a 2 night finale. I was hoping that they'd do it over 3 hours tonight.

Finally.

Last night's episode showed the love however short-lived. Utterly poetic to have Madi and Peter swatting away flies as they circled the carcass of their dying relationship. It takes maturity to look at a relationship and call it knowing the benefits of a Bachelor relationship are within reach; in that way, Madi showed real self-love and love for Peter.

Some questions for tonight: Is Hannah Ann his default F1? Does he allow TPTB and his parents' opinions to influence his choice? For there to be true conflict resolution for Peter's character, he needs to make his own decision and choose the person he wants as much as she wants him. I just wonder if he is willing to walk away alone if Madi doesn't return because that's who he wants regardless of their incompatibility or differences.

We'll see what tonight holds--hopefully, a lot of love

The previews showed Madi talking to CH - that she made a bad decision. I think she comes back at the FR ceremony. Which to me I think is unfair. You can't be yo-yoing like that with your emotions and decisions. It's really exhausting. I think she should stand fast with her decision, because, how has the situation changed? Would Madi suddenly change her core beliefs? Will Peter remain abstinent till manage and not hang out at clubs? They are very incompatible IMO though I see that Peter mostly cares for her and she's the F1 in his heart. But in my mind, their relationship will never work out in the real world. Madi is the only one who has come out of the bubble to view life as it will really be. I don't know how it will end, but I think at this point Peter's best bet is to choose no one...but I know he won't because he'll never "surrender"