Bachelorette 15 - Luke Parker - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

@RizBiz and @sdmom

i absolutely apologize for anyone thinking that I said he was short and that was something derogatory. I think it has been mentioned before how so many of the men and women on past seasons seem taller than they are in real life. I should have clarified that.
I have had a of empathy for Luke and will continue. Again, I apologize if my comment was perceived to be unkind.

You're fine, @Doggoneit. I thought you were just commenting on what Wells had said and I agreed that I had wondered also. I have guy friends who aren't tall and it doesn't even enter my mind but we're looking at someone on tv and trying to compare. Here's an article that is trying to figure out the guy's heights and I noticed this: Source Unless all the other guys are giants, there's no way he's 6'.  

The other guys clearly didn't like Luke so it seems to me that he earned that. I get that there are often cliques and not everyone is going to like everyone else but there were a lot of seemingly nice guys who didn't have anything good to say about him. Editing is another thing. They can make someone worse than they were and that may be what's happened this season although not so sure that explains him throwing down Luke S and kneeing his head.

The previews show him & Hannah having conversation about her partially naked bungee jump with Garrett and he seems to come across as being judgemental again. I get having your own opinion on what is and isn't right based on your feelings and/or your religion. That's not the issue for me. It's that he's putting them on Hannah and expecting the same from her. He (and Hannah) should have realized they weren't on the same page much earlier, imo.

@Doggoneit no worries! It’s all good!

@Doggoneit no worries. You simply stated what was discussed on a podcast. IMO there's no difference between "he's really short" or "he's really tall". It's just an observation and in this case between someone he saw on TV vs real life.

IMO It doesn't mean there is anything right or wrong with the person.

Doggoneit, no worries.
It’s just that the sequence of comments after yours was sdmom asking what his height had to do with Luke the person ( a valid question) and then the following post by albean99, which is what caused me to respond in defence of sdmom.

albean99 wrote:Just a reminder that this isn’t a fan thread so  criticism of Luke is allowed.

It appeared that albean99 posted her comment in response to sgmom’s comment to yours and albean referenced your post as ‘criticism of Luke’.
Therefore my comment in response to that.

But hey, if you did not mean it as a derogatory comment, my apologies.
However, 5’8” isn’t REALLY short.

I think if Luke really wants to grow from this experience it’s going to come from honest self examination. I don’t think excuses do him or just anyone in life, any good. So blaming editing/religion/other guys, is 100% the wrong approach imo. I also believe in 2nd chances but they have to be earned through changed behaviour and I think as soon as you start making excuses for certain behaviours, then you’re doomed to repeat them.

The narrative surrounding Luke’s views on sex really bugs me because I feel like there’s been this unsaid implication that only religious people understand the importance of sex or feel a certain way about the importance of intimacy. The problem with Luke isn’t that he wants to wait until marriage or him setting those boundaries in his relationship with Hannah, those are his choices to make and there’s nothing wrong with them. The problem is him trying to set those boundaries for Hannah’s relationships with other men when he willingly signed up for a show pursuing a woman he knew a) wasn’t a virgin & b) would be having relationships with other men.

As for the conversation about his height, I think 5’8 is on the short side for men.

All jmo.

ReneeM wrote:I think if Luke really wants to grow from this experience it’s going to come from honest self examination. I don’t think excuses do him or just anyone in life, any good. So blaming editing/religion/other guys, is 100% the wrong approach imo. I also believe in 2nd chances but they have to be earned through changed behaviour and I think as soon as you start making excuses for certain behaviours, then you’re doomed to repeat them.

The narrative surrounding Luke’s views on sex really bugs me because I feel like there’s been this unsaid implication that only religious people understand the importance of sex or feel a certain way about the importance of intimacy. The problem with Luke isn’t that he wants to wait until marriage or him setting those boundaries in his relationship with Hannah, those are his choices to make and there’s nothing wrong with them. The problem is him trying to set those boundaries for Hannah’s relationships with other men when he willingly signed up for a show pursuing a woman he knew a) wasn’t a virgin & b) would be having relationships with other men.

As for the conversation about his height, I think 5’8 is on the short side for men.

All jmo.

Bolded = fair & wise

The statistics are average height of men is 5’9”.

ReneeM wrote:I think if Luke really wants to grow from this experience it’s going to come from honest self examination. I don’t think excuses do him or just anyone in life, any good. So blaming editing/religion/other guys, is 100% the wrong approach imo. I also believe in 2nd chances but they have to be earned through changed behaviour and I think as soon as you start making excuses for certain behaviours, then you’re doomed to repeat them.

The narrative surrounding Luke’s views on sex really bugs me because I feel like there’s been this unsaid implication that only religious people understand the importance of sex or feel a certain way about the importance of intimacy. The problem with Luke isn’t that he wants to wait until marriage or him setting those boundaries in his relationship with Hannah, those are his choices to make and there’s nothing wrong with them. The problem is him trying to set those boundaries for Hannah’s relationships with other men when he willingly signed up for a show pursuing a woman he knew a) wasn’t a virgin & b) would be having relationships with other men.

As for the conversation about his height, I think 5’8 is on the short side for men.

All jmo.

I couldn’t agree with you more.Well said. And the behavior he is exhibiting on the show, where he signed up to be surrounded with other men, shows that he is immature, and his use of physical stance and threats to try and control the situation shows how insecure he really is. But this facade that he keeps and that even Hannah has brought up to him, has not broken up yet.  It reminds me a little bit of Chris Randone on Becca’s season and how he was portrayed and his turnaround when he went to BIP and how she got through to him enough and he understood that letting go of the bravado and fake macho image allowed him to be himself and show the real him and this way he found a partner to connect with. I’m not necessarily a fan but I can see and applaud the shift that occurred there. Luke missed the train and MANY opportunities to do similarly to get Hannah’s love. But he persisted in forcing his ways and seem unable to grasp what is really the issue that everyone around him is experiencing and commenting about.
JMO

https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/life/the-toll-of-reality-tv-luke-ps-friends-talk-about-his-time-on-the-bachelorette/

Sad for him. He is not fairing well in this atmosphere.

https://soundcloud.com/user-918730231/ep-67-what-was-this-episode-of-the-bachelorette

I am not that familiar with this podcast, just sitting on the beach yesterday ( absolutely no beverages involved ;), but I listened. One of the guys was a former baseball player, and knew people that had played at the same school as Luke.
http://www.faulknereagles.com/roster/18/3/5831.php

Synopsis: It is a Christian school, dated someone for 2 years, and has been on mission trips.
375 batting average, outfielder...and I will say he has an awful beard-which when BB players get on a streak, they are superstitious and won't shave, wear the same socks etc...i have 2 sons that played college baseball. (one is 5'9"

I hope he has a strong friend base that supports him. I think this is going to get worse before it gets better.

Sharnee wrote:The statistics are average  height of men is 5’9”.

Thanks for looking that detail up Sharnee :  Confirmation that Luke isn’t REALLY short.  

And as interesting as it is to be ‘armchair psychologists’ analyzing the contestants on this show, one must be reminded that the ‘person’ deemed ‘needing  to grow from his experience and do self evaluation’, is actually a fabricated ‘partial’ person, based upon an edit. Viewers are ‘hating’ and judging a ‘created character’ on a show.

I have no doubt that  he, as well as ALL of the participants, WILL do some self evaluation after watching themselves on national TV, reading the online and social media responses.

My question still remains, is this edited Luke , whom we are being shown, so evil in real life? (And was he really so evil on the show?)
Was he so  wrong in his expectations of winning Hannah’s heart?
Was he so wrong in his expectations or understanding of a committed relationship after all of this?

Will he actually have to make a LOT of changes  to his character ?
For what end?
To try to satisfy the viewers and their opinions?

And will he have to make more drastic changes than other guys on this show such as Scott? Tyler G? Luke S? And now Jed??!!
They ALL have flaws but we were only shown partial persons.


In his real life, as a real person, Luke has the right to expect his girlfriend to stay faithful to him.
Not to cheat on him with other guys.
Not to  have sex with other guys while in a relationship with him.
Most of us have those expectations in REAL life.
Most of us would be shocked to learn that the person we loved was doing a semi nude bungee jump with someone else, or having sex with someone else, while they were in a relationship with us.  Yes, I get it. That’s the premise of the show which he signed up for.
But to shut ones NORMAL  emotions and expectations OFF is not that easy, when one is serious about finding the love of your life. And when you think you are the front runner. And when one thinks (foolishly so) that this is what everybody in production is rooting for.

Luke took those very realistic, real life  expectations onto a show, a show that isn’t really real life...
(Yes it is but no it’s not. )
Hence his emotional dilemma and the resulting fiasco of being a failure as a ‘contestant’.
Hence his becoming the “villain”.

I hope he realizes today that  his real life expectations of relationships, which  are being  villified on this non-real, reality show,) are perfectly normal in real life and that he will probably do just fine in a regular dating relationship in REAL life.

And to add. Just something noted in Luke’s edit.
On the first night, cameras made sure to note that he drank water and was not drinking alcohol as the rest were.
For the preview this week, the camera made sure to zoom in on Luke downing a shot with gusto.

Have they done this as explicitly with the other guys? Not that I have noticed.
Sending a subliminal Message?
To me, it appeared that he was desperate to please her, desperate to fit in, and so compromised by doing what he thought she wanted.

Just all my humble opinion.

RizBiz wrote:

Sharnee wrote:The statistics are average  height of men is 5’9”.

Thanks for looking that detail up Sharnee :  Confirmation that Luke isn’t REALLY short.  

And as interesting as it is to be ‘armchair psychologists’ analyzing the contestants on this show, one must be reminded that the ‘person’ deemed ‘needing  to grow from his experience and do self evaluation’, is actually a fabricated ‘partial’ person, based upon an edit. Viewers are ‘hating’ and judging a ‘created character’ on a show.

I have no doubt that  he, as well as ALL of the participants, WILL do some self evaluation after watching themselves on national TV, reading the online and social media responses.

My question still remains, is this edited Luke , whom we are being shown, so evil in real life? (And was he really so evil on the show?)
Was he so  wrong in his expectations of winning Hannah’s heart?
Was he so wrong in his  expectations or understanding of a committed relationship after all of this?

Will he actually have to make a LOT of changes  to his character ?
For what end?
To try to satisfy the viewers and their opinions?

And will he have to make more drastic changes than other guys on this show such as Scott? Tyler G? Luke S? And now Jed??!!
They ALL have flaws but we were only shown partial persons.


In his real life, as a real person, Luke has the right to expect his girlfriend to stay faithful to him.
Not to cheat on him with other guys.
Not to  have sex with other guys while in a relationship with him.
Most of us have those expectations in REAL life.
Most of us would be shocked to learn that the person we loved was doing a semi nude bungee jump with someone else, or having sex with someone else, while they were in a relationship with us.  Yes, I get it. That’s the premise of the show which he signed up for.
But to shut ones NORMAL  emotions and expectations OFF is not that easy, when one is serious about finding the love of your life. And when you think you are the front runner. And when one thinks (foolishly so) that this is what everybody in production is rooting for.

Luke took those very realistic, real life  expectations onto a show, a show that isn’t really real life...
(Yes it is but no it’s not. )
Hence his emotional dilemma and the resulting fiasco of being a failure as a ‘contestant’.
Hence his becoming the “villain”.

I hope he realizes today that  his real life expectations of relationships, which  are being  villified on this non-real, reality show,) are perfectly normal in real life and that he will probably do just fine in a regular dating relationship in REAL life.

And to add. Just something noted in Luke’s edit.
On the first night, cameras made sure to note that he drank water and was not drinking alcohol as the rest were.
For the preview this week, the camera made sure to zoom in on Luke downing a shot with gusto.

Have they done this as explicitly with the other guys? Not that I have noticed.
Sending a subliminal Message?
To me, it appeared that he was desperate to please her, desperate to fit in, and so compromised by doing what he thought she wanted.

Just all my humble opinion.

IMO you hit the nail on the head ! Very well written !