Arie Luyendyk Jr - Lauren Burnham - Bachelor 22 - Discussion #2

Mommyof2 wrote:Why is one okay, but not the other?   Again, just curious.    

Giving an opinion about someone's actions is one thing, and filming people in their own private atmospheres is something else IMO I can call Arie all the names in the dictionary but I personally find it wrong to invade his privacy and film him minding his business without his consent. IMO

An important difference here as well is that people who decide to be in the public eye do sign up for sacrificing a big portion of their privacy. This gym goer did not sign up for his footage to be published this way for the world to see. ALL IMO

Amberish wrote:

North wrote:

Amberish wrote:I didn't watch the video and relied on the discussion here for content. Then, a few minutes ago, an extremely considerate forum member privately sent me the link. Thank you very much!

Honestly, I don't have a problem with Arie posting a 14-second video showing what a gym looks like from across the street and 1 story below. I don't even have a problem with Arie pointing out the circus acrobat shorts. But, what I don't understand, at all, is how mentioning the shorts is being confused with body shaming? Respectfully my opinion, of course.

That is one ridiculously crowded work out room. Sadder than that is knowing people actually pay to be crowded into that space.  Hopefully, everyone working out makes use of deodorant (which, from my experience of the locale, is not always the case)!

The body shaming and the bullying can be argued until the end of time - IMO. As well as Arie/Lauren's intent. But for me, as stated previously, the issue is about privacy. Generally, privacy is the right to be left alone and free from surveillance and unreasonable personal intrusions. Now information privacy is the right to determine when and to what extent information about oneself can be communicated to others.

And that's why this raises flags for me -- there isn't any attribution or notation -- and Arie and Lauren's laughing voiceover indicates (IMO) this wasn't for research purposes or intellectual inquiry. The question here is did this guy approve the video to be shared with 1 million viewers. If not, that's an invasion of his privacy. And also, IMO, just really poor taste/humor. Now if Arie and Lauren were incidentally filming the storefront and happened to get this guy in the background, that's another story but per the video, not what happened here.

Arie and Lauren aren't the only ones who made a poor decision to share a mocking video (IMO) -- there's a Bravo celebrity that photobombs people sleeping in airports. And that drives me nuts too. This issue is definitely a very gray area with technology, ethics, morals, and common sense all battling one another. Eventually the law will catch-up with technology and all the periphery issues but, unfortunately, it hasn't yet.

And lastly, I'm not a proponent of the "Everyone else is doing it" excuse.

Privacy? Who expects privacy if electing to work out in front of a huge window facing a busy street. Look how crowded it is in front of the window. Frankly, I'm surprised people have room to move. Yes, those shorts are certainly an oddity, but the real spectacle, to me, anyway, is working out in such a tight space. (Curious if there are other, empty work out rooms NOT in front of that window.)

Asserting US standards upon on people who live in a different country with an entirely different set of standards. *edit*

With absolute certainty, those people we're watching working out in front of that window are HOPING they're being watched for otherwise, they wouldn't be working out in front of that window. Barcalonians who prefer to work out privately aren't working out in front of that window, that's for sure!

Now, if to assert what Arie isn't a class act, yeah, ok, I can buy that, *EDIT* 

What. We have a lot of gyms where you can work out in front of a window and the only purpose is so that you can look OUT of it while you're rowing or spinning or whatever you're doing. If it were on level with the street, I for one would feel very uncomfortable and I would just choose another gym, but if it's above ground then honestly you don't think about people looking up at you and certainly aren't expecting to be filmed during workout. All those people seemed very engrossed in their workouts, not lifting and flexing and showing off..

Laugh if you find it funny, but film it and post it? That's just.. something that personally would never even cross my mind. Mind you, I'm totally rooting for Arie and Lauren to work out and I think they are a good match and probably not terrible people, but they're also not very nice people an it's showing.

I am going to BLB (BeLikeBecca) and I am moving on. Arie and Lauren are not people I care about and will not invest any more energy into them. IMO they are two immature “mean girls” that have very little concern for others just themselves. The fact that they didn’t get why posting an embarrassing video of the people exercising and promoting it for all their followers to see was wrong is the last straw for me. They are a perfect couple and deserve each other IMO.

Mommyof2 wrote:Arie deleted his story and blocked his comments on IG.  And it begins...  

If he publicly apologized today, would you forgive him?  Just curious.

Btw, how is it any different when all I see are derogatory comments about Arie and Lauren on this board?  He's an eff boy, a loser, a jerk.  Why is one okay, but not the other?   Again, just curious.    

Um, because Arie and Lauren chose to put themselves on a television show for public consumption, and thus opened themselves up to criticism. That guy they filmed and mocked did not. He was literally just trying to exercise and live his life, he didn't ask for two privileged brats (IMO) to expose him to hundreds of thousands of people. The two situations actually could not be more different, IMO.

Mommyof2 wrote:Arie deleted his story and blocked his comments on IG.  And it begins...  

If he publicly apologized today, would you forgive him?  Just curious.

Btw, how is it any different when all I see are derogatory comments about Arie and Lauren on this board?  He's an eff boy, a loser, a jerk.  Why is one okay, but not the other?   Again, just curious.    

Arie and Lauren chose to go on this show, with all the information before them... with complete knowledge how social media goes, how this board functions, how reddit functions. They willingly opened themselves up to this kind of debate. This gym goer, most certainly, did not. We are allowed to discuss opinions, both positive and negative in this discussion thread, per forum rules. Certainly, you have also posted not so great opinions about others in different couple or individual threads, yourself. As was your right to think and do so, per forum rules. IMO.  

Btw, no one wants to tar and feather Arie and Lauren. I find that highly melodramatic imo. We just want to point out how reckless and mean spirited that IG story was. IMO. To me, dating 25 year old Lauren has dropped this 36 year old man’s maturity down a decade or so. Not that he ever displayed highly mature behavior in the past. IMO. The point being.... he’s old enough (and so is she, really) to make better decisions. 

JMO.

I admit that I’m probably not as outraged as some of you, but, IMO his story was verging on mean, immature, and lacking in basic human decency. That’s all. I’m glad he had the sense the remove it, though I'm sure he learned nothing from this except not to broadcast your shittiness for the world to see. JMO.

Amberish wrote:

North wrote:

Amberish wrote: ** SNIPPED **

** SNIPPED **

Privacy? Who expects privacy if electing to work out in front of a huge window facing a busy street. Look how crowded it is in front of the window. Frankly, I'm surprised people have room to move. Yes, those shorts are certainly an oddity, but the real spectacle, to me, anyway, is working out in such a tight space. (Curious if there are other, empty work out rooms NOT in front of that window.)

Asserting US standards upon on people who live in a different country with an entirely different set of standards *edit*

With absolute certainty, those people we're watching working out in front of that window are HOPING they're being watched for otherwise, they wouldn't be working out in front of that window. Barcalonians who prefer to work out privately aren't working out in front of that window, that's for sure!

Now, if to assert what Arie isn't a class act, yeah, ok, I can buy that, but I don't believe this is body shaming and bullying *edit*! My opinion, of course.

Totally appreciate that we have different views on this issue but I'd just like to note two things.

First, I'm not asserting "U.S. Standards" on anything, I'm coming from a basic human -- moral and ethical perspective -- regardless of where you live. But I will chime in to say the EU is actually much more strict about personal privacy data (always has been) -- especially from a consumer's standpoint -- than the U.S. Not to get in the weeds, but also totally getting in the weeds , the EU General Data Protect Regulation has a big compliance deadline coming up in May -- and if you want to do business in Europe, you and your products have to comply. That means Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, etc... The internet is eroding the world's borders and while consumer laws and protection always lead the way, it will -- as history has shown -- eventually roll over into personal laws and protection.

Second, I wasn't going "on and on about body shaming and bullying" -- my issue is the right to privacy and the dissemination of electronic communication that violates someone else's privacy. And, that's regardless of geographic location or content. There is a reasonable expectation of privacy -- especially personal information privacy -- even in public space -- that's why new technology makes this such a challenging issue, the ability to disseminate information so quickly to so many and across borders. If I took a picture or video of folks working out on Barceloneta beach with intended use for commercial public consumption -- postcard, commercial, etc... -- I'd have to get the explicit permission of EVERYONE in that scene. This wasn't intended for commercial promotion but one could argue Arie & Lauren's social channel is a commercial channel AND the effect was the same: mass public consumption.

Was it a good choice, no. Are zillions of people doing similar things, yes. Does that make it right, no (IMO). Am I fascinated by this topic, yes! Will I keep posting about this, nope. I'm good on this subject and have probably bored everyone to death! Sorry about that, see earlier comment about being fascinated by this topic.

And whoever asked would I forgive them if they apologized, sure. This isn't life or death here, people make mistakes all the time and they DEFINITELY are NOT the only ones posting questionable content. Arie and Lauren will move on and so will everyone else!

All IMO, except for the facts about EU privacy law and EU GDPR

PS - If you want to geek out, you can read more about the EU GDPR's consumer privacy regulations here.

bleuberry wrote:I admit that I’m probably not as outraged as some of you, but, IMO his story was verging on mean, immature, and lacking in basic human decency. That’s all. I’m glad he had the sense the remove it, though I'm sure he learned nothing from this except not to broadcast your shittiness for the world to see. JMO.

Totally. Someone on Reddit said they’re two a$$holes in a pod. /endthread as far as I’m concerned imo.

Mommyof2 wrote:Arie deleted his story and blocked his comments on IG.  And it begins...  

If he publicly apologized today, would you forgive him?  Just curious.

Btw, how is it any different when all I see are derogatory comments about Arie and Lauren on this board? He's an eff boy, a loser, a jerk. Why is one okay, but not the other? Again, just curious.

Arie isn't some victim here. He decided to use his social media to humiliate a total stranger. He's getting called out for that. What he and Lauren did was mean, and bullying.

As for calling Arie a jerk here. He imho acts like a jerk. This forum is for discussing Bach cast members. We aren't posting this on their social media pages, we aren't set out to target him and humiliate him. He set out to humiliate that poor gym goer, and it apparently backfired. Jmo.

I would just like to point out, that if they had stuck to their words at ATFR and really took that social media break, none of this would have been an issue. Isn’t it ironic/quote Alanis Morrisette.  

Can only speak for me, but that declared/non existent SM break probably would have gone a long way in helping me forget their idiocy, and dare I say it, even respect them a little. 

JMO

sosleepy wrote:

Mommyof2 wrote:Yes, it was discussed the other day.  I'm sure they knew they were being filmed and chose to have fun with it.  NBD.  Jmo

This was he first time I had seen this video. So much more cringe and hilarious (in a bad way) than the still pictures. IMO.  They really are looking quite silly and very attention seeking here, imo.

Thanks for reposting as I missed it if it was posted earlier or maybe it was deleted during one of the thread sweeps... either way it was so awkward and embarrassing to see, IMO, I couldn't even watch the whole thing. I just felt bad for them standing there doing all of the fake pointing and floundering around, obviously seeking attention. IMO

Mommyof2 wrote:Arie deleted his story and blocked his comments on IG.  And it begins...  

If he publicly apologized today, would you forgive him?  Just curious.

Btw, how is it any different when all I see are derogatory comments about Arie and Lauren on this board?  He's an eff boy, a loser, a jerk.  Why is one okay, but not the other?   Again, just curious.    

It is a fine line of moral conscience, IMO. 
The forum allows for the good, bad and ugly in discussion threads. We can allow cast to be referenced in certain negative ways per site rules. 
That does not mean morally members might feel good about it. This is a frequent thing members discuss with mods. That is something each member must figure out on their own. That is one of the reasons fan threads exist with their own rules. 
I think most members enjoy being able to freely exchange ideas in the discussion threads. 
IMO, It's important that any opinion is differentiated from the member itself, however. Members may not respect the opinion and say ok and walk away, but hopefully they will respect the member. Most of us will never personally interact with cast, but we do interact with our members. JMO

ETA I personally believe Arie made his deletion after he heard I threatened to flay myself and slit my wrists. He finally realized he went too far and didn't want any possible retribution for a crazy haus fraus' post menopausal  whims.