Lauren Burnham - **Sleuthing Spoilers**

I excuse my previous post for deviating from the topic ... so I'd like to add that despite my (huge) doubts on Arie, his "maturity, seriousness, readiness" and sincerity (with himself, since I do find him honest with others, even with his obvious BS) ... I find his story(line) with Lauren to be the "most romantic, dramatic and if they last ... surprising" season (ending) ever! ... right from some ChickLit romance ... Hallmark movie ... too bad only for him (them) that the horrible "temporary/initial" girlfriend/fiancee isn't horrible at all and has many fans, so their "triumph of love" might be less celebratory at the end than what they might deserve, and that's why I keep writing "Arie, what the h*** have you done?!".

happygolucky wrote:snip for brevity
That said, I still draw the final line ... IMO Arie should have not propose or any kind of way initiate a relationship with Becca, just "because" **... since it is clear as day that there were no deep feelings, no great lust/attraction (as he has for Lauren), just missing passion, involvement and consideration. ** because Lauren this or Lauren that, or TPTB's plot

So on the scale ... IMHO they've both done a reckless thing ... s

I agree. The problem as I see it is that our viewpoints are not crafted under the same conditions these people are in. JP once said that by the end of that season, Ashley was emotionally exhausted from the pressures she was put under (which included a lot of manipulation and lies she was told) and Jason once said that things probably would have turned out differently had he had more time - but he wasn't given that time (and IMO they were telling him that Molly was ambivalent in her feelings towards him which was clearly not the case and they knew it. If Jason had been given the time he could have talked to Molly and found out they were lying to him.). When you're making a decision such as this, time is on your side but IMO no one is given the time they need or allowed to decompress and collect their thoughts to make good decisions.

I don't know if the producers are just driven to get filming over with so they can pack up and go home (saving $$$) or if they feel that forcing snap decisions increases the odds of making bad ones and giving them drama to work with. Maybe some of both ...

Lucas15 wrote:

happygolucky wrote:snip for brevity
That said, I still draw the final line ... IMO Arie should have not propose or any kind of way initiate a relationship with Becca, just "because" **... since it is clear as day that there were no deep feelings, no great lust/attraction (as he has for Lauren), just missing passion, involvement and consideration. ** because Lauren this or Lauren that, or TPTB's plot

So on the scale ... IMHO they've both done a reckless thing ... s

I agree. The problem as I see it is that our viewpoints are not crafted under the same conditions these people are in. JP once said that by the end of that season, Ashley was emotionally exhausted from the pressures she was put under (which included a lot of manipulation and lies she was told) and Jason once said that things probably would have turned out differently had he had more time - but he wasn't given that time (and IMO they were telling him that Molly was ambivalent in her feelings towards him which was clearly not the case and they knew it. If Jason had been given the time he could have talked to Molly and found out they were lying to him.). When you're making a decision such as this, time is on your side but IMO no one is given the time they need or allowed to decompress and collect their thoughts to make good decisions.

I don't know if the producers are just driven to get filming over with so they can pack up and go home (saving $$$) or if they feel that forcing snap decisions increases the odds of making bad ones and giving them drama to work with. Maybe some of both ...

My sentiments exactly and said as much in a previous post. Not excusing bad behavior/decision making but IMO understanding the reasons for our own or someone's actions can foster compassion and subsequent forgiveness. Further, to repeat myself again, I don't think we can fully understand the conditions the leads are placed. The closest I can come is to recall some of my own behavior under extreme emotional and/or physical fatigue/distress.

docnash14 wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

happygolucky wrote:snip for brevity
That said, I still draw the final line ... IMO Arie should have not propose or any kind of way initiate a relationship with Becca, just "because" **... since it is clear as day that there were no deep feelings, no great lust/attraction (as he has for Lauren), just missing passion, involvement and consideration. ** because Lauren this or Lauren that, or TPTB's plot

So on the scale ... IMHO they've both done a reckless thing ... s

I agree. The problem as I see it is that our viewpoints are not crafted under the same conditions these people are in. JP once said that by the end of that season, Ashley was emotionally exhausted from the pressures she was put under (which included a lot of manipulation and lies she was told) and Jason once said that things probably would have turned out differently had he had more time - but he wasn't given that time (and IMO they were telling him that Molly was ambivalent in her feelings towards him which was clearly not the case and they knew it. If Jason had been given the time he could have talked to Molly and found out they were lying to him.). When you're making a decision such as this, time is on your side but IMO no one is given the time they need or allowed to decompress and collect their thoughts to make good decisions.

I don't know if the producers are just driven to get filming over with so they can pack up and go home (saving $$$) or if they feel that forcing snap decisions increases the odds of making bad ones and giving them drama to work with. Maybe some of both ...

My sentiments exactly and said as much in a previous post.  Not excusing bad behavior/decision making but IMO understanding the reasons for our own or someone's actions can foster compassion and subsequent forgiveness.  Further, to repeat myself again, I don't think we can fully understand the conditions the leads are placed.  The closest I can come is to recall some of my own behavior under extreme emotional and/or physical fatigue/distress.

Ditto all posters' sentiments.

^^Good points from all above. I've been emotionally invested in the outcome on this show before, but it turned into a sh!tstorm, so since then, I've enjoyed watching in more of a detached way. As several of you point out above, it's all about the emotions evoked and the choices made, always remembering of course that the screws are being turned so these people aren't making decisions the way they would at home.

IIRC tents such as these are pretty common at many racetracks. And as you've presented it makes it very plausible that the picture is of Lauren and Arie. That doesn't mean they really knew each other - IMO Arie has taken many pictures with fans at various races and I doubt he remembers most of them. But it does suggest that Lauren knew of Arie (though probably not because she knew him) and therefore when she said she went on the show to meet someone she would not otherwise could have met, she might well have been thinking of Arie. It also suggests that Lauren might be a race fan which could add to her attraction to Arie.

Yes, I've seen pictures of people lining up "around the block" for those photos at race events.  It looks like a mad crush. .  
 I imagine that during the casting interview process , they ask the women : which of the former cast members or leads are you attracted to?  I would certainly ask that if I were them. If you do not like  introverted men they need to know this. etc.  If you liked Chris Lambton or Brooks, or Arie, or Sean Lowe,  they need to know.    They are also building a very detailed profile so that they know which buttons to push during the season and what sorts of men the women are generally attracted to and so forth.  I just dont see that Lauren having attended a race is more significant than realizing that they do try to cast some folks who could be attracted to the Lead. They darn well ought to be doing that. (In addition to packing the cast with The Crazy, the One who Cries, the One who just broke up with the love of her life, The one who is a Mean Girl, etc etc. etc.)

@Lucas15 In reading Sharleen’s blog, yes she’s insightful but imo, not keying in on the fact that Lauren was possibly recruited as one of the few not expecting Peter is pivotal. Was she the silver platter serving for Arie? Didn’t Caroline say that she was recruited for Peter and that the producers thought she could be in F2? Is it logical to think the same about Lauren for Arie? Even if Arie stated who his top girls were, we know he is capable of changing the narrative one way or the other . The long wait for Lauren to have her first 1 on 1 is calculating by producers . They know her inhibitions and if given a date earlier, she’d have to wait a bit for her second similar to how long Becca had to wait. Arie gave her enough attention before their first date to keep her interested imo. The consecutive dates were meant to consistently break down her walls and I’m not sure he wanted to send her home. I can agree that his walk away at dinner was to consult the producers about expressing his feelings and not advise them he was keeping her afterall per Sharleen’s blog. Lauren was his one recruited possibly adoring fan dating back to 2012. Her nervousness could have also stemmed from being in the company of her celebrity crush, until she could relate to him as a normal person . I keep coming back to the story was always going to be about the switch in this season. If so, that saddens me that there had to be collateral damage in the person of Becca. I don’t think she has an ex she’s going back to like Melissa in Jason’s season . In this twist, it was Arie hung up on his ex named Lauren . TPTB knew they were going to go up against the Olympics so they could use that as the reason for the general disinterest in Arie’s season , or compete by a “ shocking” talked about ending where viewers might turn too once the Olympics is done . Jmho

How do you know she was not expecting Peter?
We know she attended a race. (Or at least we think she did based on the photo). If they asked her - What sort of men do you like? Which former cast members do you like?, she might wll have put Arie on her list. But has there been some interview in which she said that she was recruited for Arie?

I highly doubt that info will come out before the ending if ever. Caroline only talked about her recruitment for Peter after she left the show. It does give insight though to the projections that producers might make regarding final ones. If Lauren was expecting Peter, why would she be allowed to bring  a pic of her posing with a possible Arie? That wouldn’t make sense. Imo

Edit: unless she had one of Peter too

The thing with production, you don't know what kind of crap they are going to throw at you or what is true. 
If they said they were recruiting for Peter, that could be bull, too, as much as they could have said in the past they were recruiting cast for Luke, Chris L. or Arie in past seasons. TPTB simply say crap to say crap. Mills is much the same way. Half the stuff that comes out of Mills mouth (IMO) is false. Then you have MF who has a PHD in hyperbole and hysteria.

There is one semblance to production casting for Peter and it falling through . Arie was cast as lead very late into the process. Kind of a last resort effort imo.

I'm all for calling production out on their lack of trustworthiness, manipulation and talking out of both sides of their mouths, but at some point some of this is on Arie and he has to own it.  

Rewriting things to make it seem like Becca never happened and it was always all about LB is not owning it, IMO.  And while I'm normally more willing to wait and see how it all plays out, when it continues to match past repeated history (going back as far as before and after him filming Emily's season, that I used to be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on) that kind of goes out the window.  

If somehow he manages to make things last and has a monogamous relationship with LB for a while, I'll be happy to reconsider changing my thoughts.  Until then giving him the benefit of the doubt has dried up and I'm just going to call him on his crap.  Same as I would any other lead.  

JMO