Bachelorette 13 - Rachel Lindsay - Episode 3 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

annapasuk16 wrote:

pvpr wrote:

annapasuk16 wrote:What more could women want?

A personality?

I agree with that. I guess I'm hoping Peter has more personality but maybe we just haven't seen it yet (wishful thinking)

Why do you think we haven't seen Peter's personality - IMO, heaps of it on their 1 on 1 and since then, little bits and pieces in Ep3 with very limited air time.

I'm not the above posters but for me, so far all I see is Peter smiling. I didn't see him engaging in the moment. He appeared just going with the flow as if he didn't know what to do. With the others, if you name a guy, something will stand out, name Peter, and I can't think of anything that he did that makes him stand out for me.

I don't see any personality yet. It's almost as if he has to let loose or something, be himself. This could all be due to edit, but just a handsome face doesn't cut it for me, I need to see more. JMO

MiaHawk wrote:

Sprite wrote:

MiaHawk wrote:

@stuckinsc     I totally agree. I feel that people are always multi-dimensional. The show edits people to be one dimensional, but just because the editors don't highlight a certain quality of a contestant does not mean that he doesn't have that quality. And, like you, I don't believe that men that are naturally touchy-feely, or flirty, or passionate, or spontaneous, or who tell corny jokes are necessarily bad, untrustworthy, or unloyal. Everyone has their own unique personality. I am enjoying TV Bryan. I haven't watched one single things on this show that has given me any red flags ab out the guy. He is being edited as the kissing bandit, but if he makes it far along in the process (F1-F4), there is no way that he and Rachel have not been having substantial conversations along the way. IMO, Rachel is too mature and serious about the goal of finding her appropriate and right life partner than to not have had those conversations.  So, IMO, the disappointment should be with the editors, and not with the guy who is  being edited.  JMHO.

I agree about not necessarily believing the edit since people have way more depth to them then ever revealed on this show, however, it wasn't editing that grabbed the microphone out of Ellen's hands to quickly state that he has kissed Rachel and then again, after the other guy said he kissed her too, to say sloppy seconds. It also wasn't editing that made him almost eat her face before she had a chance to catch her breath. (Yes, the first night might have edited it to seem it happened almost immediately, but the second RC, he himself said it, before we do anything I have to do this....Smack, smack, smack.) It's not like she's his girlfriend who he hasn't seen in ages, it's a woman, who he met one time. Way too OTT for me. Rachel may have liked it and naturally, it's her opinion that counts, but that is the stuff that gives me pause and give him Doesn't make him horrible or a bad guy and he seems to have some good qualities as well, but those are things that have nothing to do with edit. It's his personality...which to me screams...smooth, player. I hope that is not all we see of him, but as of now, that is my predominant impression...based on his own actions and not editing.

I respect your opinion. I can understand it, but I don't share it.  

To me, Bryan's personality is what it is. He is a verbal guy (typically repeats R's words or gives feedback when R is speaking), witty in a corny-yet-flirty way ("I'm good with my hands"; "I'm Columbian-you're in trouble"), very tactile (in his career and in his romancing), is easily in touch with how he feels and isn't afraid to express it ("I'm physically attracted to R"; "I didn't get a date and I've missed you"), is assertive (goes in for the first kiss when the timing was right, with Fireball onboard grabbed the mic from Ellen's hand twice, ), likes kidding around with the other guys (the sloppy seconds ribbing he gave to Will), can also calmly and empathetically speak to guys who may be struggling (Eric), and even though he is verbal he knows when to keep his mouth shut (during Lee/Eric drama).  

With the lead often questioning if the guy is there for her or for fame, I think it could be comforting for her to see/hear/feel that a guy is into her. With the lead trying to process so much information about all of these guys and filter out the ones (just like she said on her Ellen evening portion) that she may not feel she has any romantic feelings for, I would think that a spontaneous guy-initiated kiss would provide quite a bit of information-(Was she pleasantly surprised by his assertiveness or did it seem intrusive/not welcome? Did she enjoy the kiss (physically)? What type of a reaction (emotional/sensual) did it cause? Did she want the kiss to continue longer or stop as soon as possible? Sometimes you can sit and look at things on paper (a guy's credentials) for days and not know what you know after just one kiss. JMHO.

You're right. Different strokes for different folks. I get that the kissing will provide info and obviously Rachel seemed to like it, but to me it was very aggressive. I don't care for that. He could have kissed her without trying to extract her tonsils. Similarly, what you see as kidding around with the guys, isn't for me. It's someone trying to one up everyone else...repeatedly. And I didn't see him being empathic toward Eric, I saw him slyly rooting for Eric to tank. Again, I'm not saying the guy is all bad, but these are things that I see as red flags and things that I will watch out for going forward.

pavalygurl wrote:I can't remember which guy (maybe it was Iggy) that  Bryan was talking with but he was agreeing and head nodding on and on.  Then right away in the ITM he talked about how it was "good for me" that the guy was having doubts and that he just kind of let the guy go on and on.  IDK, this hit me wrong.  I know it is a competition and the azz Lee even pointed out that "everyone is a threat to everyone".  I just didn't respect how Bryan let the guy think he was a friend and was all the while thinking how this was great for him (Bryan).  Contrast this with Iggy who told Eric just what he told Rachel, and Eric who told Lee what he thought right to his face.  

I also remember the first encounter when Bryan sloppy first kissed Rachel.  He told her he was a "doctor of chiropractic".  It wasn't shown whether he told her the part about selling vitamins.  Rachel likes genuine.  She wants to "keep it 100".  This guy gives me a bad vibe.  His score is still TBD, but IDK if it will be "100".

With regards to what you are mentioning in your first paragraph, I think you are referring to Eric and Bryan's conversation while standing in the kitchen. This is how I personally interpreted that scene:

Eric is a guy who has never been in love before (mentioned in another conversation elsewhere on the show) and at the time of the kitchen conversation he was openly telling Bryan that he is totally into Rachel, is interested in having a relationship, is ready to be vulnerable for the process to work, YET his gut is telling him that Rachel is not totally opening up TO HIM. He is uncomfortable with this new sensation of vulnerability but is willing to endure the uncertainty and possible heartbreak (like Fred) if it means moving forward TO SEE if a relationship is possible with Rachel. (Obviously, to me, Eric's storyline is Will Eric stick with the process and allow himself to be vulnerable to find love?)

He clearly was comfortable speaking to Bryan, as he poured out his heart about the process and his worries that Rachel may not be giving him any signs that she likes him. (Again, in the Iggy-interupted conversation he was saying that he just wants and needs a little bit of feedback from Rachel to know if she even likes him). Now, I did not like to see Eric blow his fuse with the other guys, and to me that may be a red flag about his personality and/or may say something about the guys at whom he was yelling, however, he was having a perfectly calm, honest, open conversation with Bryan and there was no escalation from self-doubts to defending himself loudly.

Why? Because Bryan was actually listening to what Eric was saying and he was trying to understand him. Conversely, what I saw with Iggy was Iggy joining into a conversation that others were having, Iggy trying to tell Eric how he should be feeling, and Eric immediately feeling attacked and go on the offensive. On the other hand, Bryan was listening to Eric express his own feelings without trying to contradict him or try to change his mind. He was actually interested in the conversation they were having and Eric. Bryan even questioned Eric lightly for more clarity when he asked (paraphrased) "So she gives you just a little bit..." and then Eric replied (paraphrased) "No she gives me nothing".

Bryan cannot change the way Eric is feeling. Eric knows how he is feeling and is entitled to feel scared if he feels he is beginning to like Rachel more than Rachel is liking him back. His gut is telling him that something is amiss. What Bryan is doing is being a good listener and sounding board. What I saw was Bryan being nice to Eric to his face, and in his ITM later he was saying that he is not experiencing those same doubts, that Rachel seems comfortable and open with him. IMO, there was nothing sneaky or underhanded about this scene at all. JMHO.

MiaHawk wrote:

pavalygurl wrote:I can't remember which guy (maybe it was Iggy) that  Bryan was talking with but he was agreeing and head nodding on and on.  Then right away in the ITM he talked about how it was "good for me" that the guy was having doubts and that he just kind of let the guy go on and on.  IDK, this hit me wrong.  I know it is a competition and the azz Lee even pointed out that "everyone is a threat to everyone".  I just didn't respect how Bryan let the guy think he was a friend and was all the while thinking how this was great for him (Bryan).  Contrast this with Iggy who told Eric just what he told Rachel, and Eric who told Lee what he thought right to his face.  

I also remember the first encounter when Bryan sloppy first kissed Rachel.  He told her he was a "doctor of chiropractic".  It wasn't shown whether he told her the part about selling vitamins.  Rachel likes genuine.  She wants to "keep it 100".  This guy gives me a bad vibe.  His score is still TBD, but IDK if it will be "100".

With regards to what you are mentioning in your first paragraph, I think you are referring to Eric and Bryan's conversation while standing in the kitchen. This is how I personally interpreted that scene:

Eric is a guy who has never been in love before (mentioned in another conversation elsewhere on the show) and at the time of the kitchen conversation he was openly telling Bryan that he is totally into Rachel, is interested in having a relationship, is ready to be vulnerable for the process to work, YET his gut is telling him that Rachel is not totally opening up TO HIM. He is uncomfortable with this new sensation of vulnerability but is willing to endure the uncertainty and possible heartbreak (like Fred) if it means moving forward TO SEE if a relationship is possible with Rachel. (Obviously, to me, Eric's storyline is Will Eric stick with the process and allow himself to be vulnerable to find love?)

He clearly was comfortable speaking to Bryan, as he poured out his heart about the process and his worries that Rachel may not be giving him any signs that she likes him. (Again, in the Iggy-interupted conversation he was saying that he just wants and needs a little bit of feedback from Rachel to know if she even likes him). Now, I did not like to see Eric blow his fuse with the other guys, and to me that may be a red flag about his personality and/or may say something about the guys at whom he was yelling, however, he was having a perfectly calm, honest, open conversation with Bryan and there was no escalation from self-doubts to defending himself loudly.

Why? Because Bryan was actually listening to what Eric was saying and he was trying to understand him. Conversely, what I saw with Iggy was Iggy joining into a conversation that others were having, Iggy trying to tell Eric how he should be feeling, and Eric immediately feeling attacked and go on the offensive.  On the other hand, Bryan was listening to Eric express his own feelings without trying to contradict him or try to change his mind. He was actually interested in the conversation they were having and Eric. Bryan even questioned Eric lightly for more clarity when he asked (paraphrased) "So she gives you just a little bit..." and then Eric replied (paraphrased) "No she gives me nothing".

Bryan cannot change the way Eric is feeling. Eric knows how he is feeling and is entitled to feel scared if he feels he is beginning to like Rachel more than Rachel is liking him back. His gut is telling him that something is amiss. What Bryan is doing is being a good listener and sounding board.  What I saw was Bryan being nice to Eric to his face, and in his ITM later he was saying that he is not experiencing those same doubts, that Rachel seems comfortable and open with him. IMO, there was nothing sneaky or underhanded about this scene at all. JMHO.

Agreed, I also like that Bryan said "it sound like you want to put a bit of pressure on her" sounding pretty defensive of Rachel IMO

I totally agree @MiaHawk

gisellexlopez wrote:

MiaHawk wrote:

pavalygurl wrote:I can't remember which guy (maybe it was Iggy) that  Bryan was talking with but he was agreeing and head nodding on and on.  Then right away in the ITM he talked about how it was "good for me" that the guy was having doubts and that he just kind of let the guy go on and on.  IDK, this hit me wrong.  I know it is a competition and the azz Lee even pointed out that "everyone is a threat to everyone".  I just didn't respect how Bryan let the guy think he was a friend and was all the while thinking how this was great for him (Bryan).  Contrast this with Iggy who told Eric just what he told Rachel, and Eric who told Lee what he thought right to his face.  

I also remember the first encounter when Bryan sloppy first kissed Rachel.  He told her he was a "doctor of chiropractic".  It wasn't shown whether he told her the part about selling vitamins.  Rachel likes genuine.  She wants to "keep it 100".  This guy gives me a bad vibe.  His score is still TBD, but IDK if it will be "100".

With regards to what you are mentioning in your first paragraph, I think you are referring to Eric and Bryan's conversation while standing in the kitchen. This is how I personally interpreted that scene:

Eric is a guy who has never been in love before (mentioned in another conversation elsewhere on the show) and at the time of the kitchen conversation he was openly telling Bryan that he is totally into Rachel, is interested in having a relationship, is ready to be vulnerable for the process to work, YET his gut is telling him that Rachel is not totally opening up TO HIM. He is uncomfortable with this new sensation of vulnerability but is willing to endure the uncertainty and possible heartbreak (like Fred) if it means moving forward TO SEE if a relationship is possible with Rachel. (Obviously, to me, Eric's storyline is Will Eric stick with the process and allow himself to be vulnerable to find love?)

He clearly was comfortable speaking to Bryan, as he poured out his heart about the process and his worries that Rachel may not be giving him any signs that she likes him. (Again, in the Iggy-interupted conversation he was saying that he just wants and needs a little bit of feedback from Rachel to know if she even likes him). Now, I did not like to see Eric blow his fuse with the other guys, and to me that may be a red flag about his personality and/or may say something about the guys at whom he was yelling, however, he was having a perfectly calm, honest, open conversation with Bryan and there was no escalation from self-doubts to defending himself loudly.

Why? Because Bryan was actually listening to what Eric was saying and he was trying to understand him. Conversely, what I saw with Iggy was Iggy joining into a conversation that others were having, Iggy trying to tell Eric how he should be feeling, and Eric immediately feeling attacked and go on the offensive.  On the other hand, Bryan was listening to Eric express his own feelings without trying to contradict him or try to change his mind. He was actually interested in the conversation they were having and Eric. Bryan even questioned Eric lightly for more clarity when he asked (paraphrased) "So she gives you just a little bit..." and then Eric replied (paraphrased) "No she gives me nothing".

Bryan cannot change the way Eric is feeling. Eric knows how he is feeling and is entitled to feel scared if he feels he is beginning to like Rachel more than Rachel is liking him back. His gut is telling him that something is amiss. What Bryan is doing is being a good listener and sounding board.  What I saw was Bryan being nice to Eric to his face, and in his ITM later he was saying that he is not experiencing those same doubts, that Rachel seems comfortable and open with him. IMO, there was nothing sneaky or underhanded about this scene at all. JMHO.

Agreed, I also like that Bryan said "it sound like you want to put a bit of pressure on her" sounding pretty defensive of Rachel IMO

I interpreted that comment to be Bryan's way of encouraging Eric to push forward with the process and if Eric is seeking more information from Rachel that Eric should take the initiative and ask her directly. I think he was trying to help Eric find more clarity about how Rachel is feeling about him and to perhaps feel a bit more empowered through the process. JMHO.

I really didn't care for Bryan based on his interactions with Rachel, but seeing him with the guys in this ep is making him much more likeable. He actually seems quite balanced and mature, especially compared to some of the clowns there. I'm also enjoying Eric and really keen on seeing how his relationship with Rachel develops, I can definitely see some potential there. Whereas Peter needs to warm up faster, getting some Brooks vibes there.

I hear what you all are saying and I respect all your opinions. Mine continues to be different when it comes to Bryan. Peace to all.

I am encouraged that Bryan seems to get along with the guys in the house, a good sign that he's not arrogant and a pita to be around which I initially feared he would be. Just like Rachel, I think confidence is good but there's a fine line between being confident and being cocky.

One thing still weighing him down in my eyes was his behavior at the Ellen show. I think more than the sloppy seconds comment, I was more turned off at his grabbing the mic and making sure everyone knew that he had kissed Rachel and that his kiss was the one Rachel was speaking about. It seemed he couldn't wait to let it be known; kind of like he was marking his territory. Which brings me back to my comment about confidence without being cocky. He seemed cocky in this instance and it was a red flag for me.

Keeping an open mind though...

This is almost as bad as "who shot JR"!!! Do you remember in the interview in the car Rachel said you won't be able to tell and she specifically said "you think you know"...? Do you think she made that comment because she knew RS was wrong with that initial spoiler?

Acrunch wrote:I am encouraged that Bryan seems to get along with the guys in the house, a good sign that he's not arrogant and a pita to be around which I initially feared he would be.  Just like Rachel, I think confidence is good but there's a fine line between being confident and being cocky.

One thing still weighing him down in my eyes was his behavior at the Ellen show.  I think more than the sloppy seconds comment, I was more turned off at his grabbing the mic and making sure everyone knew that he had kissed Rachel and that his kiss was the one Rachel was speaking about.  It seemed he couldn't wait to let it be known; kind of like he was marking his territory.  Which brings me back to my comment about confidence without being cocky.  He seemed cocky in this instance and it was a red flag for me.

Keeping an open mind though...

Totally agree with this. I initially judged Bryan off that whole interaction but after seeing his Sm and some interactions with Rachel I got past it. Didn't like the mic grabbing, the shes a great kisser was ok and kind of funny, didnt like Will saying I second that, and def didnt like sloppy seconds but dont see anything else negative so far. When she gave bryan the FIR she did tell him there was some unexplainable connection between them which is something she keeps mentioning in interviews.