Ben Higgins - Lauren Bushnell - Bachelor 20 - Discussion - #8

Canceling that wedding and Lauren's devestation was most definitely not scripted. Imo. It was the only genuine aspect about that show. IMO, it was a silly lighthearted scripted crap fest, meant to document their wedding journey. That's how it was billed. That's how the show started. Then Ben backed out, publicly - and that was real. And from there the show took a kind of dark turn. You could visibly see the sadness and regret all over their eyes in those last episodes and their ITMs. What a mess.

Look, I'm not saying Lauren is perfect. She was in that relationship too, and I'm sure accountable for much of the breakdown. But the hero worrship of Ben and propping him up as the vindicated one isn't fair, imo. He's Saint Ben who had the wool pulled over his eyes by horrible Lauren, who made no real sacrifices, because moving to a new place? No biggie. Oh, and she totally forced her opinions and made him change everything about his house. So you see, Ben did the sacrificing here. I just think that's not fair. Not accurate, as someone who followed them both closely.

Look, I was a huge Ben fan. Big Ben apologist countless times. But the hurt and betrayal he put Lauren through in prime time television, with a total lack of empathy or ability to take accountability for the hurt he cause kind of tarnished him to me. 100% he contributed to the downfall of their relationship, imo. I think that's easily documented on camera, actually. And, not saying he should have married her if he wasnt feeling it. But Holy Hell did he go about the entire situation, before, during and after in a HORRIBLE way. JMO.

sosleepy wrote:Canceling that wedding and Lauren's devestation was most definitely not scripted. Imo. It was the only genuine aspect about that show. IMO, it was a silly lighthearted scripted crap fest, meant to document their wedding journey. That's how it was billed. That's how the show started. Then Ben backed out, publicly - and that was real. And from there the show took a kind of dark turn. You could visibly see the sadness and regret all over their eyes in those last episodes and their ITMs. What a mess.

Look, I'm not saying Lauren is perfect. She was in that relationship too, and I'm sure accountable for much of the breakdown. But the hero worrship of Ben and propping him up as the vindicated one isn't fair, imo. He's Saint Ben who had the wool pulled over his eyes by horrible Lauren, who made no real sacrifices, because moving to a new place? No biggie. Oh, and she totally forced her opinions and made him change everything about his house. So you see, Ben did the sacrificing here. I just think that's not fair. Not accurate, as someone who followed them both closely.

Look, I was a huge Ben fan. Big Ben apologist countless times. But the hurt and betrayal he put Lauren through in prime time television, with a total lack of empathy or ability to take accountability for the hurt he cause kind of tarnished him to me. 100% he contributed to the downfall of their relationship, imo. I think that's easily documented on camera, actually. And, not saying he should have married her if he wasnt feeling it. But Holy Hell did he go about the entire situation, before, during and after in a HORRIBLE way. JMO.

I have actually not put the blame solely on Lauren, rather when the Ben is completely at fault train starts, I simply post the counter arguments. Both these people have faults, both are not who they said they were to each other. I think they both did it from a desire to try to be what the other needed rather than from a desire to deceive.

Ben could and should have told Lauren off camera that he was canceling/postponing the wedding. Though in true "good guy" Ben fashion it sounded like he tried to bring up concerns before that and when he did she would pout until he backed off. That does not excuse him telling her publically, but some may see this as he being warned and refusing to listen. I read online that it seemed the wedding meant more to her than Ben. Many women get caught up in wedding planning and lose focus on why they are marrying, so I don't blame her.

Ben as the lead and the one who had the big contract initially will be the one to have been trained to continue to put things in a positive light while the F1 does not. We have seen this with Jillian and Ed, Ali and Roberto, and Chris and Whitney. Emily, Jef, and Josh are the only three F1s I remember keeping up the facade as well as the lead and they were the three F1s who were most in desire of claiming the spotlight and possibly being a future lead in my opinion.

I said before, she is vapid and he is immature. I expect them both the continue to grow and find better partners for themselves. I think they both came out of this relationship with lots of benefits they didn't have before and I think they both contributed equally to the breakup. All JMO.

sosleepy wrote:Canceling that wedding and Lauren's devestation was most definitely not scripted. Imo. It was the only genuine aspect about that show. IMO, it was a silly lighthearted scripted crap fest, meant to document their wedding journey. That's how it was billed. That's how the show started. Then Ben backed out, publicly - and that was real. And from there the show took a kind of dark turn. You could visibly see the sadness and regret all over their eyes in those last episodes and their ITMs. What a mess.

Look, I'm not saying Lauren is perfect. She was in that relationship too, and I'm sure accountable for much of the breakdown. But the hero worrship of Ben and propping him up as the vindicated one isn't fair, imo. He's Saint Ben who had the wool pulled over his eyes by horrible Lauren, who made no real sacrifices, because moving to a new place? No biggie. Oh, and she totally forced her opinions and made him change everything about his house. So you see, Ben did the sacrificing here. I just think that's not fair. Not accurate, as someone who followed them both closely.

Look, I was a huge Ben fan. Big Ben apologist countless times. But the hurt and betrayal he put Lauren through in prime time television, with a total lack of empathy or ability to take accountability for the hurt he cause kind of tarnished him to me. 100% he contributed to the downfall of their relationship, imo. I think that's easily documented on camera, actually. And, not saying he should have married her if he wasnt feeling it. But Holy Hell did he go about the entire situation, before, during and after in a HORRIBLE way. JMO.

I completely disagree about the cancelled wedding not being scripted. It was pretty much the same concept for Trysta and Ryan's wedding special. It showed them stressing and contemplating calling off the wedding, however in the end, the wedding prevailed and the lived happily ever after. Ben and Lauren had a whole season that was supposed to follow their life. In HEA, when they were approached for the wedding, Ben was hesitant and Lauren was all in. They spent a whole episode focusing on Lauren convincing Ben to go through with the wedding. They then spent several episodes showing them overwhelmed, Ben getting 20+ voicemails about wedding stuff, them disagreeing over houses, B+L disagreeing over cake testing, them knowing the least about each other during couples counseling which all led up to the climax of the show- Ben and Lauren outside talking  and him calling the wedding off. After that, the episodes were about them unsure how to move on and the doubt of whether they would ever make it to marriage. Then the finale is them in Vegas at their "bachelor/ette parties" where they each reveal to their friends that the wedding has be called off, they are unsure about their future, bla bla bla, more doubt about their relationship, their friends give them advice, and then they remember all of the wonderful times and love they share together and Ben calls Lauren to talk to him and they decide the wedding is back on. The rest of the weekend is great, and they both say that they are going to get their happily ever after. That was literally the whole storyline of the show IMO. It was even talked about that possibly happening before the show ever aired.

Also, this whole hero worshipping of "saint ben" you keep talking about is crap imo. Just because I don't condemn Ben for their relationship ending, doesn't mean I believe he can do no wrong.

@hae1001 Agreed. IMO, they seemed fine SM wise and stuff when they were filming the show. Then the show started airing and I don't think they were happy with how it turned out and how things were portrayed. It would be pretty sad to me if the demise of their relationship began with how producers edited them. Or it very well could have been something outside of HEA entirely. Ben basically said the joy they felt in the beginning was fading, they tried to get it back, but it wasn't working. I can believe that.

Bottom line: they both get off on what other people think. Ben clearly is a people pleaser and always wants to be the "good guy." Lauren clearly cares what people think if social media is any indicator.

Leaving the Bachelor they were exhaulted. Practically everyone loved them, and it was just assumed they would marry. Which is rare in Bachland where the general consensus is these couples will always fail.

Then they did HEA, and they both came out looking pretty badly during parts. They got a lot of scrutiny, and the vail was lifted off the "idyllic" relationship. The scrutiny after that was harsh. I think too harsh for either of these people pleasers to overcome. So I believe Ben when he says the "joy left" and they couldn't get it back.

@hae1001 When I say Saint Ben and hero worship, I mean basically whitewashing his part in this relationship. You say yourself you don't fault the demise on him. That's naive. I don't think it was totally his fault, but certainly he contributed right along with Lauren. Also, Trista and Ryan's manufactured drama was not the same as BenLo's. They tried to make it the same, with wedding planning hyjinks, but Ben canceling the wedding, to me, was very obviously a shock and incredibly painful for Lauren. You could basically see her complete shellshocked sadness the rest of filming. Not at all the same as T&R's 3 epi arch. Where the biggest drama was strippers at the (real) Bach party.

@sosleepy I did not say I don't fault him, I said I wouldn't condemn him for the failed relationship. They mean very different things. I have stated multiple times that I think both of them contributed to the relationship failing.m

This is random but I stumbled upon the interview they did early this month with Bustle promoting the Disney wedding special. Talk about awkward knowing what we know now.

umngirl wrote:This is random but I stumbled upon the interview they did early this morning with Bustle promoting the Disney wedding special. Talk about awkward knowing what we know now.

It shows me they were both deceptive about the relationship, just Ben was better at that. Plus for both love of money was more important than anything. JMO.

When did they film that Disney special? Maybe they were in a good/decent place at that time? Or they just did it for $$?

@Linds911 march 30th

hae1001 wrote:@Linds911 march 30th

Oh ok thanks! Seems they ended things a month later so

I think they filmed it at the end of March/beginning of April, right? I saw some comments on a picture when their break up was announced that a girl witnessed them filming at Magic Kingdom and she claims they didn't act like they were in a relationship let alone friends. She stated they barely interacted when the cameras weren't on.

If I'm being honest, I think this relationship has been over since the fall, they fully realized it in the winter, and then stuck it out an extra month a two for different purposes. All JMO