Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #5

emusha wrote:Thanks for the convo
@ukglasgowkiiss
@skates
You seem to be suggesting that Vanessa is challenging and looking for signs Nick will indeed love her and compromise for her in the way that she wants and needs particularly in an environment she hasn't felt he feels the same for her as he does him. Interestingly, Vanessa herself when explaining to Nick's dad says that she feels that Nick loves her but the question is ---> is love enough. I don't see any clue at this point that shows her actually doubting Nick's feelings however, she does seem to be fully and deeply engaged in the negotiation of compromises that will help them build a life together. She gets happy when nick concedes i.e. he's happy to be part of her family's traditions but then the other compromises are things she's brought up repeatedly over multiple dates.
I totally get why nick's reciprocity of her feelings is very important but I see no proof that it is still a nagging question for her at this point. her comment is love enough says it all, tbh because she feels they have the emotions and passions but then can they make it out in the real world...that's the question she keeps asking.
She also seems to say fully confidently "I love him" and I think he feels the same. This is not the thing she's dwelling on...imho what she's dwelling on instead is lifestyle choices and compromises.

@notarose you are also suggesting V is testing whether he will go far for her. What are the clues that this is a test for his commitment and love rather her negotiating how her life would be like and how they'd make it work?
 
@Catdwoman50 Great point and you are right ITA we really don't know what Nick is capable of handling and so we shall indeed see!

all IMHO

Vanessa has told Nick's father that she loves Nick...she has then continued on to say "he is at that point, or almost at that point, I am not sure I'm assuming..."...I think Vanessa knows a relationship needs love, sacrifices and selflessness to work...

With her great compassion for people, it is not even a question of whether she can or will do it or not...I am very confident that she will do it...her question is more so 'is this worth me sacrificing for'...with the other women still existing in Nick's life,  I don't think Vanessa is receiving enough re-assurances that at the end of all of these, she will be with Nick, the man who is deeply in love with her...

All through out the process, I think, both of them have been challenging each other...with those challenges, they are also learning more and more about each other, they are learning on how to resolve their conflicts as well...

In one of Nick's POV, Nick has talked about these issues with a very positive note: @ 0:50 Nick's POV -  @3:08 Vanessa's POV -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UltRWG6jG0g



It is very tough to give up something that means so much to Vanessa...but, she's willing to fight on her love for Nick, but in the off chance that she finds out Nick is not deeply in love with her, she's willing to leave herself heartbroken and walk away rather than accept his proposal...

I am expecting Nick's proposal to be bursting with tons of 'I love you' for Vanessa so that she can feel the intensive love he has for her... thus in the end, Vanessa has accepted Nick's proposal, and has decided to go along with his plan, they have probably came up with resolutions that would satisfy both of them....

mindless wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:@emusha I totally get where you are coming from. But here's the thing, only hindsight is 20/20. He fell in love with Vanessa. He did everything possible to put their life in black and white for her. He didn't paint a rose garden so to speak but he did offer her his heart and let her know he wanted to work through it as a team. If we find that she can't do that in the coming months, years I still don't think he'll have any reqrets. She is what he came looking for.  JMOAA

I got the love story I hoped for when they announced him as TB two fold. I can't ask for more than that.

I agree. IMO Vanessa was the best match for Nick out of this lot by far and if it doesn't work out then oh well, at least he took the risk. I just can't (and won't) assume that Vanessa is still in the same head space now that she was back in November. I'm sure the prospect of changing her whole life for a guy she only met a couple of months prior was terrifying for her, how could it not be? She said herself that being engaged is as serious as being married to her, so I would imagine she wasn't just coasting along thinking they'll get engaged and worry about everything else later. She wanted to know exactly what she was getting herself into before taking the plunge and Nick was keeping his answers tentative in order to not make any sort of false promises. If they still have no clue as to what their plans are then that's a problem, but I have a feeling that's not the case. If they're still in love and happy then I suspect their relationship has evolved past these fears. We'll see. JMO.

I totally agree with this...I feel like Vanessa believes if Nick loves her deep enough, she'll see him compromising and doing his share of sacrifices as well...

locoforbach wrote:My question is, the ATFR is LIVE right?  How can it be SO shocking/historic/wild if they already know about it but aren't revealing until next week?  To me, Wild says unpredictable and Shocking says surprising.  Words I would use after viewing a live show, not prior.  This leads me to believe that if it is about N&V then it is positive.  IMO if it is something with drama then it is pre-planned and ABC "induced" and I won't take much interest in it.

I keep thinking Nick will be hosting TB from now on and CH is out .

Yes the ATFR is live, and therefore we have been speculating it must be something "planned". I've been speculating for sometime now that CH will be on his way out, so to me that's an interesting theory.

I feel like if any alum is taking over for CH, it's probs Sean Lowe.

I believe i read either here or somewhere else that chris Harrison extended his contract last year for five more years. I dont believe he is leaving anytime soon.

hae1001 wrote:I believe i read either here or somewhere else that chris Harrison extended his contract last year for five more years. I dont believe he is leaving anytime soon.

Good. I don't see him leaving either.

I really hate the way TPTB is editing this show... Nick's POV @ 0.16 seems to reflect that Nick is willing to take the risks with Raven making people feel that Raven is his final choice...

"...You really like her..." "I am more than really like her and, so if that means risking these--all of these blow over my face not working out, I'd rather take that risks..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0ufH5BXNB4

For those who are talking about V's tone being confrontational and argumentative -- I seriously believe that it's just her accent and a whole lot of ho ha over nothing ...like c'mon give the girl a break.

And her not being so ready to give up her life, job and family to move to LA, where her potential fiance has 0 ties, for me is an e.g. of a strong woman who values herself and doesn't follow the old society norms of giving absolutely everything up for a man. This is how I'd want my daughter to act.

Someone (sorry I can't remember who...or where that was) mentioned earlier that during Nick and Vanessa's last date when she says, "I love you," that Nick's face didn't match up. I agree. I think that the smile he gives her right at the beginning of this clip is what he did when she says, "I love you."  If you look closely at him when she says it, he smiles.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UltRWG6jG0g

His "a simple yes will work for me" to her "my thoughts on FS" reminds me of Ryan's "check please" from Trista's season. Both are eager to forgo their individual rooms...

TPTB have outdone themselves this season IMO with the usual "cast doubt on spoiled F1" schtick.

At the same time, I see Vanessa, unlike or at least more so than any F1 I can ever remember, having one foot ( and her head and heart) firmly planted outside the bubble. Sure it's easy to fall in love when it's all about exotic dates, travel to beautiful places, and for eight weeks or so, isolated from family, friends, any contact with outside world and 24\7 life is about your relationship with the lead. That's very different from a real life relationship, and especially true for Nick\Vanessa with the challenge of where they will live, Vanessa potentially giving up everything that is important to her in her current life-lives close to family and can be at every Sunday lunch, the job she clearly loves etc.

So I see Vanessa as being very realistic and striving to separate the bubble love from whether that love and the relationship can survive and thrive in the real world. I don't see it as Vanessa being demanding, but instead being very realistic and not wanting to get engaged for the show only to find out the relationship can't survive in real life because they can't find a compromise they both can wholeheartedly embrace without any reservation.

Which leads me to speculate that perhaps the "first time ever" we've been promised for finale and ATFR is Nick proposes, Vanessa doesn't say yes or no, but I need more time. While in earlier seasons the lead gave promise rings and did not propose, we've never had the F1 say I'm not ready to get engaged but I am ready for a "promise" commitment. And Jen S said I need time to decide but she was the lead.

So it would be accurate that it is a "first time ever" that F1 is the one to wait until ATFR to decide\accept a proposal. Added bonus would be to see Viall family in audience at ATFR to witness proposal\engagement, beeming with joy and happy tears.

The Viall's IMO will be there in full force. They have supported Nick from day one, as well as some of Vanessa's family. I can't see them not being there. I can't see anything other than a proposal and Vanessa accepting.