Vanessa Grimaldi - Bachelor 21 - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #4

OK ... I'm a little bit "bugged" ... why people wish for Raven to be saving herself? ... I wrote it before, I do believe Raven's position might be someway along that line because of something she liked on twitter long ago ... BUT ... her choice makes no difference ... if Nick really was in love in Vanessa by that point, he wouldn't want to "sleep" with Raven anyway ... (he said it himself, if he felt madly in love, he would propose ... and that happens just days after, so by the time of FS his feelings for one or the other should be clear) ... and going into FS-overnight doesn't necessary include sex ... it's optional. Nick said it himself in his 1st season, he would have been fine with just talking all night (he wasn't going in with the expectation) ... unfortunately for both they opted for what ultimately didn't bring any satisfaction to either (such a cautionary tale for the future kids) - that's JMO.

@happy, for me it's more about avoiding the speculation about it that might be hurtful to V. It would just be a non factor. But I agree with your above points as well

Personally, I hope that Nick doesn't sleep with Rachel nor Raven as I think that he already knew during HTD (if not even at M&G ) that Vanessa was the one. It would be very hypocritical of him to sleep with anyone else besides Vanessa, so if Raven's secret (if it is in fact Raven that reveals a secret) is that she wants to wait until marriage, it is insignificant to me. All IMO.

I'm not sure when Raven is eliminated but I will REALLY be shocked if she gets a second meeting with Nick's family. Nick will begin to make decisions based on his previous experiences at this point of the journey, IMO!

Nick is no dummy, he made mistakes in the past and learned from them. He isn't going to sleep with his F2 and/or F3 and risk one of them confronting him about it after the show. No way! JMO

shaughnessyb wrote:@happy, for me it's more about avoiding the speculation about it that might be hurtful to V. It would just be a non factor. But I agree with your above points as well

OK... makes sense. Thank you.

About Vanessa - responding what I read around - IMO she didn't complain that much **... saying "what are you doing and why would you do it, knowing I might see it, knowing people will judge you?" (confronting him at the party) or "I'm fed up with the gossip and his stupid choices" (crying in her room) or "he didn't tell me what I wanted to hear and it doesn't feel good" (confessing in ITMs) or "asking for a blessing all 4 families makes his question to my father less meaningful and I'm not sure if he feels the way I feel" (sharing her perplexity in ITM) - all paraphrased /JMO - to me it's not a complaint or whining ... but it's explaining own emotions, negative, uncertainty, hurt, anger, annoyance, doubt, fear ... that IMO is being honest and self-aware and people should be able to express their own negative emotions, actually it's quite healthy for own mental health, because suppressing them inside leads to frustrations -IMO - and not feeling them at all, honestly I can't imagine when the whole point of this "game" is about feelings.

** there was 1 moment when she did sound whiny, when she said "I've been so patient" ... there I could agree, but it's not enough for me to ascribe to her "whining" every time she expresses her thoughts that aren't all "roses and hearts".

Nick will only sleep with Vanessa he dont want to lose her, trust that. IMHOAA

reason wrote:Nick will only sleep with Vanessa he dont want to lose her, trust that.  IMHOAA

I agree. Vanessa wasn't a happy camper when she learned that he asked 3 other dads for their blessing (I think it was about time someone mentioned the absurdity of it).
I can't imagine how she would react if she learned he slept with someone else days before he got engaged to her. Some may she say that she is acting entitled, I say that she has enough self-respect to not put up with this, especially as Nick knew early on, IMO, that she was the one.

@traveler90 IA - that someone finally brought up their concern of other families being asked for their blessings, and loosing the importance and meaning of same.

and, the whole sleeping with others - I'm not a fan, I don't believe in test driving beforehand to make sure. If that's what it takes, then IMO they are not choosing for the reasons they should be choosing.

Especially at that point in time, the lead knows who they are choosing. What's the point? It doesn't matter to me that they are not engaged at that point, or they are still single. The fact remains they know who they are choosing. It's no different to me if a guy was going to propose to his g/f and has a one night stand with a former g/f a day or two before. I trust that chances are the girl would not want to go through with the wedding.

I know this was discussed a few weeks ago. But remember when nick took a picture in a hotel looking place and people were thinking he was visiting Vanessa. Well it is a hotel but it's a long staying hotel also in LA. That's where nick lives and where all his workout pictures have been.
Source: **edited**
My screenshots, I don't know how to get the old conversation

Same gym and then same kitchen

@cmarci93 one hell of a sleuth :alltens: good find and what a place! ... no more couch surfing?

ITA GA, but we know some people do sleep with F1 & F2 (Andi/Katilyn and probably others).  Not to get off topic of this thread but I always thought Ben and JoJo slept together.  To me she wasn't in it to be the next lead at that point and Ben had told her he loved her; I don't know if it was ever determined or not.  How does F1 get past that or the lead justify it??  Kat/Nick were earlier in season I guess but others have been in FS.  If you are truly, madly in love someone and are honestly ready to be engaged, you are not sleeping with another person a few days before. IMO