Raven Gates - Bachelor 21 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

This deleted scene sure shows a lot of chemistry to me!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Why were they in a hotel room together during the Wisconsin date?Also wasn't she wearing that dress during the rose ceremony.

I don't see the heat between them. He's acting more like Nick the buddy, imo. He runs his hand up and down her leg and waist, but like other scenes between them, I can almost feel the producer taking him aside and telling him he has to "sell it." Maybe because we've seen Nick when he is really 'heated up,' actively involved and completely interested, so I feel this with Raven is not even close to those times. And their conversation is honestly like a teen talking to a man of the world. jmho

Another that isn't seeing any real chemistry. I wouldn't be surprised if Nick was told to turn up the 'heat' between them but it's not coming across as authentic IMO.

One sexy little dress she's wearing !! I think the whole season has been a ruse - get everyone to think Vanessa and he have this soul mate type of relationship - made for each other - so deep etc. Even go to the extent of sending clues about the SHV since the end of the show. I know I am going out on a limb - but maybe finally abc has figured out a way to keep the ending truly a surprise at the end ! (And what bachelor to better achieve this with than Nick - who spoiled his season with Andi by divulging on his cell phone on the plane home that he was F2?) When creeping along is this fun but passionate and sweet growing relationship with Raven. Vanessa was sold on Nick before the show started - that's got to be a little unsettling. And when Vanessa did tell Nick she was falling in love with him - she barely looked him in the eye. Raven - and Nick too - have taken their time - but it's all been happy and fun. He wants to know how she feels - and she is smart - she's not giving him too much and maybe not letting herself go too far - keeping things in check given the situation. I think we are in for a surprise ...

^^^
IMO Raven and Vanessa have clear cut differences that makes Nick final choice easier because it's easier to envision distinct futures with both and decide from there.
IMO all the women on the show are viable options for someone so whoever Nick falls in love with is viable.

cmarci93 wrote:Why were they in a hotel room together during the Wisconsin date?Also wasn't she wearing that dress during the rose ceremony.

As usual I can't access the video but I saw images from this deleted scene and I think this happened during the night portion of the volleyball group date. The preview for the episode showed Nick and Raven making out in whatever room there was where the night portion of the date took place and we also know she got the group date rose that night. They just ended up never showing any of it. 

 I think the whole season has been a ruse - get everyone to think Vanessa and he have this soul mate type of relationship - made for each other - so deep etc.

Which is why the editing had Vanessa disappear after their first 1 on 1 to the point that she was actually on a group date once and we saw no interaction/conversation between her and Nick. And their second 1 on 1 ended with him seemingly rejecting her I Love You and her HTD being a "downer" with her family pointing out everything that could go wrong. That's how they've sold the soul mate relationship?

When creeping along is this fun but passionate and sweet growing relationship with Raven.

A relationship with a woman who has only been with one man, where the relationship only ended six months before she came onto the Bachelor and who she claimed she never told she loved after two years together but Nick she's barely known she loves? Although the way she took forever dragging out that I Love You tells me she doesn't really and said it because that's what they all believe they have to on this show. 

Vanessa was sold on Nick before the show started - that's got to be a little unsettling. 

All she said was that he was the person she hoped would be the lead and thought it was fate when he was because let's be honest, Nick being the lead did seem like a very unlikely possibility. Plenty of people have come on the show hoping for a particular lead. What's unsettling about that? If anything it means that unlike others, her interest in Nick was genuine. 

And when Vanessa did tell Nick she was falling in love with him - she barely looked him in the eye.

And Raven took like years to verbalize her I Love You. 

Raven - and Nick too - have taken their time - but it's all been happy and fun.

Yes it has and wouldn't it be awesome if that's all it took for relationships to work? Not to mention, has it been all happy and fun or is that just what the editing has chosen to show in favor of the "insecure" and "unhappy" Vanessa who can't possibly be the one for Nick because she's just such a downer. 

For the record, I'm not saying for a fact Raven is not F1. Hey, crazier things have happened. I just don't buy that there's been anything really pointing to it. Yeah things between them was easy, probably because he liked her well enough but was never as into her as he was with some other women. Raven seems like a cool person so I don't think it's so unbelievable that Nick would genuinely like her and like hanging out with her. But nothing I have seen convinces me those two people had a connection so deep to the point of it being love, much less an engagement. But that's just my opinion.

"ILY" moment and "not looking in each other's eyes" ... what's new? Nick was always criticized for the same thing, for not looking in people's eyes when he needs to give an answer ... it's just the way certain people deal with the moment when they have to answer and IMO want to answer as honestly as possible.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ah yes your right it was the vollley ball date.

I remember in Andi's season, I so wanted Nick to be f1 but for the life of me, I could not find any time that both him and Andi were unaccounted for, i.e., no shv. A foiler will be great this season, but can we find any time that both Raven and Nick are uncounted for?

^^[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] last couple of SHVs I suspected something.  I saw a driving picture of Nick (IG story that he deleted) then I saw within a few hours driving IG stories of Raven and her dog.  However in that supposed SHV weekend, I saw IG stories of Raven with cousin that evening/or following day at a gymnastics event and the Orange Couch Gate for N/V.  This last supposed SHV (maybe 2 weekends ago?) just Nick and V being quiet and a driving picture of Raven and dog.

CHO wrote:One sexy little dress she's wearing !! I think the whole season has been a ruse - get everyone to think Vanessa and he have this soul mate type of relationship - made for each other - so deep etc.  Even go to the extent of sending clues about the SHV since the end of the show.  I know I am going out on a limb - but maybe finally abc has figured out a way to keep the ending truly a surprise at the end !  (And what bachelor to better achieve this with than Nick - who spoiled his season with Andi by divulging on his cell phone on the plane home that he was F2?)  When creeping along is this fun but passionate and sweet growing relationship with Raven.  Vanessa was sold on Nick before the show started - that's got to be a little unsettling.  And when Vanessa did tell Nick she was falling in love with him - she barely looked him in the eye.    Raven - and Nick too - have taken their time - but it's all been happy and fun.  He wants to know how she feels - and she is smart - she's not giving him too much and maybe not letting herself go too far - keeping things in check given the situation.  I think we are in for a surprise ...

I wouldn't be surprised either CHO!