Raven Gates - Bachelor 21 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

If in fact Raven is F2 - I think she was not really invested in Nick. She says at the end of her htd that she's ok with however this transpires - or words to that effect. Her Mother tells her that she won't be guarded when the right man comes along. She accepts that Nick is not the one for her although they have a lot of fun together. So I think she was agreeing that she would stay - or go - whatever Nick decided. And that is ok with Nick as he doesn't want to hurt her or anyone else. Corinne was maybe thinking she was falling for Nick - emotions were getting involved. And Rachel was probably already aware that there wasn't a match with Nick but strong possibility that she was going to be next Bachette.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] IA - I have been waiting all season to see the sparks, I see none of that from Raven or Nick. I'm surprised she's F2 and not F3 or even F4. At this point, Corrine F2 would have even made more sense for drama and for the viewers to go crazy. As mentioned in other threads, and by some others, Rachel IMO is the obvious F2.

Cila51290 wrote:Maybe the contrast of their date was too much physical compared to the other HTD so they shortened it.

That could very well be and that it didn't fit their fairytale storyboard. I also tend to think since Jillian H season, they will hide the person's relationship who was a strong possible final one so when the new couple are watching it will not cause conflict. There were pics of Jillian going to Reid's room with hot tub in Spain before the fantasy suite dates. I always believed it was not shown on TV because she was serious with Reid just scared he wouldn't propose. Instead they showed her going to a fantasy room with Ed and showed her telling Kiptyn she wasn't ready to spend the night with him but they would have that chance later. It fit their storyboard not to show the hotel room interaction with Reid since she had told Kiptyn No and the audience would have known Kip was a lame duck final 2 so no suspense for finale.

I'm surprise they didn't show the hot tub scene between Nick and Raven maybe there was some chemistry there

I found where the hot tub was. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Just more proof that that question was should have not been used against you.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] yes i did lots of research just to find that lodge i felt really stalkish for a moment. the question didnt say if it was showed on tv or not. Just this season their editing it very badly edited.

I keep trying to email them.

cmarci93 wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] yes i did lots of research just to find that lodge  i felt really stalkish for a moment. the question didnt say if it was showed on tv or not. Just this season their editing it very badly edited.

I keep trying to email them.

I noticed in the pics that it was the mudding first, then the hot tub and then the mill bin with the meeting of her cop brother last.

In a nutshell - what exactly is the "proof" that Vanessa is F1 ? I re-watched the scenes with Raven - and I think there is far more chemistry with Raven. Nick seems so relaxed and happy when he is with her - but intrigued and amused by her too. The evening part of the skating in the roller rink - very romantic - and then when she got the 3 on 1 date rose - they couldn't keep their hands off each other. On the htd - maybe the mud-bath scene was staged - but both seemed to be having fun - "sassy and sexual !" We don't get to see the hot tub scene - is that because we might figure out something ? Remember we are continually told that N is unpredictable. I see Vanessa whining, complaining, doubtful - needing to re-evaluate - and I feel N is on the brink of "getting in trouble." Vanessa leads the conversation - I think N gets kind of swallowed up. I wonder if we are in for a twist ....

I see nothing but just some fun and friendliness with Raven and Nick - for all their time spent together, I don't see any real connection and even their physical connection to me is far, far, less than what I have seen when comparing to Vanessa (their boat scene wasn't shown) and much more staged to me. I say this only because of Nick - he is the constant variable to me and his BL with Raven is not fully engaged from what has been seen. I'd say he was more physically engaged with Jen than he was with Raven and with Vanessa it's in a whole other universe going by how he constantly leans into her, kissing her hand, kissing her forehead, holding her neck. Don't see that from Nick with regards to Raven. jmo

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that's what looked like to me also, bc raven entered the scene on her 4 wheeler but went straight to the kill bin? I think it should of been mudding first

In the scene with Nick and Raven at the Bin they were both very muddy already so IMO the Bin was after the rolling around in the swamp scene.

I see Nick and Raven as way lacking in intensity to be an engaged couple. IMO Raven was a good friend to Nick and a perfect choice for TPTB to have as a back up plan if for some reason Rachel changed her mind about being the Bachelorette. I think after Raven's stiletto heel conversation TPTB knew they had an entertaining viable backup plan for the Bachelorette. (IMO the stiletto incident should have precluded her from consideration) Nick seemed to have a friendly fun vibe with her during filming so they made decent TV. Based on Nick's personal experience with being the F2....IMO Nick took someone to the F2 he felt would not be devastated by their elimination.  
Nick has seemed less than amused in his post filming interviews when questioned about specific Raven ITM's....IMO.
JMO

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - specs on which ITMs? Just curious...