Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #3

I never liked the idea of a person not deserving to be with someone (especially if it's coming from an outsider's perspective). Unless of course the other party is being harmed, whether physically or emotionally. It seems to me like there's this arbitrary ranking of people's worth/value -- like, it will never be objective! At the end of the day, Nick and Vanessa are both adults who can decide if they feel like they "deserve" more or if they feel like their partner is an equal. Let them make that decision; let that relationship or non-relationship play out. I know this is a forum where we all comment on people we don't know personally, but I feel like there's something spiteful in wishing a relationship will fail as opposed to speculating or anticipating it will fail. Those are two very different things.

It should go without saying, but this is all my opinion.

sosleepy wrote:I think the ratings have been trending downwards each season in part because of how people are changing how they watch television in general. Every year more and more people cut the cable and watch later on DVR, Hulu, the ABC app, etc. I'm not sure how much of this blame I'm putting on Nick's shoulders.

There's ratings and then there's the other measure (I forget what it's called) where they want a certain demo and they have been meeting/exceeding that.

crunchycheeto wrote:I never liked the idea of a person not deserving to be with someone (especially if it's coming from an outsider's perspective). Unless of course the other party is being harmed, whether physically or emotionally. It seems to me like there's this arbitrary ranking of people's worth/value -- like, it will never be objective! At the end of the day, Nick and Vanessa are both adults who can decide if they feel like they "deserve" more or if they feel like their partner is an equal. Let them make that decision; let that relationship or non-relationship play out. I know this is a forum where we all comment on people we don't know personally, but I feel like there's something spiteful in wishing a relationship will fail as opposed to speculating or anticipating it will fail. Those are two very different things.

It should go without saying, but this is all my opinion.

Thank you！you've expressed so much better than what I can post.
I understand not everyone likes Nick and I respect that. However, I will never hope someone, even someone I dislike strongly, getting dumped. Nick is a human being and yes he has many flaws, but he has feelings too. Why do people want to see him being rejected? What has he done to deserve being hurt, because he's on tv multiple times? So have others. Because he talks about sex too much? However, he's not physically or emotionally abusive, he is not an alcoholic and he doesn't lash out on sm negative posters. If we see signs there are problems then maybe we can start talking/speculating a break up, or who's at fault.
Jmo, of course, and not everyone needs to agree with me.

sdmom wrote:

crunchycheeto wrote:I never liked the idea of a person not deserving to be with someone (especially if it's coming from an outsider's perspective). Unless of course the other party is being harmed, whether physically or emotionally. It seems to me like there's this arbitrary ranking of people's worth/value -- like, it will never be objective! At the end of the day, Nick and Vanessa are both adults who can decide if they feel like they "deserve" more or if they feel like their partner is an equal. Let them make that decision; let that relationship or non-relationship play out. I know this is a forum where we all comment on people we don't know personally, but I feel like there's something spiteful in wishing a relationship will fail as opposed to speculating or anticipating it will fail. Those are two very different things.

It should go without saying, but this is all my opinion.

Thank you！you've expressed so much better than what I can post.
I understand not everyone likes Nick and I respect that. However, I will never hope someone, even someone I dislike strongly, getting dumped. Nick is a human being and yes he has many flaws, but he has feelings too. Why  do people want to see him being rejected? What has he done to deserve being hurt, because he's on tv multiple times? So have others. Because he talks about sex too much? However, he's not physically or emotionally abusive, he is not an alcoholic and he doesn't lash out on sm negative posters. If we see signs there are problems then maybe we can start talking/speculating a break up, or who's at fault.
Jmo, of course, and not everyone needs to agree with me.

I've never really warmed up to Nick for some reason I can't put my finger on, BUT I would love it if he picked Vanessa and they would settle down, marry and have a family. Everybody deserves to be loved and be happy. If there was a lead on there that I wished bad things for ( which I don't think I would ever feel like that) I would totally not watch the season and I wouldn't be on here talking about them. Live is too short to sweat the small stuff. As the song said Don't worry Be happy. Best wishes to Nick and Vanessa ( or whomever he chose)

So far, I think Nick and Vanessa would make a great couple. One is no better than the other.  Nick would be lucky to have Vanessa and Vanessa would be lucky to have Nick. It would be nice to see a real and lasting relationship develop. JMO

Lara wrote:Mills is just BS-ing here. How is Nick's season unprecedented? Even if you don't look at total viewers, but look at shares instead, Ben had for the first four episodes vs. what Nick had. Nothing spectacular going on here. They're about the same. IMO.

2.2 / 7 vs 2.1 / 6
1.9 / 6 vs. 2.1 / 6
2.1 / 6 vs. 2.3 / 7
2.3 / 7 vs 2. 4 / 8

Robert Mills is right. He is talking about the advertiser targeted demographic slot 18-49 and Nick's season is unprecedented in that sense because even though the total number of viewers is lower, it won a higher share in the demo for episodes 3 and 4 compared to Ben. Taking into account local ABC has been removed from DirecTV in quite a few places, this is truly unexpected IMO.

Nick's season ratings:

Source: http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/bachelor-season-21-ratings/

Ben's season ratings:

Source: http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/the-bachelor-season-20-ratings/

The reason Ben F's season is considered a dud by TPTB is because of the huge fall in the following 18-49 season average and losing the time-slot. Sean's season is considered great coz it posted a 0.2 increase which might not seem a lot but it helps to bring back advertisers(which keeps a bunch of people employed). My opinion based on what I learnt as an intern in a major LA studio. Nick's season is doing great in comparison so far IMO.
Ben           ---> 2.36
Chris         ---> 2.35
Juan Pablo ---> 2.61
Sean         ---> 2.8
Ben F        ---> 2.6
Brad W      ---> 3.3
Source: http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/the-bachelor-season-17-ratings-26225/

Thank you @sdmom for bringing my other post over.  

I got it from http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com

I don't know why you're saying they're incorrect, as they're basically the same in both except your site writes it to the hundredth decimal.
Mills was definitely BS-ing, ***IMO***because the host made some joke about how dry paint could get better ratings than Ben H and Mills agreed. That's obviously not true, ***IMO**since he beat nick for at least two episodes. I also don't see why that trend is so unprecedented as I've seen the same thing reported for other scripted shows as well. IMO.

@coolangel thanks for sharing! That's interesting to learn but so sad for me to learn I'm no longer in the desired/targeted demographics....

Wow! Brad W. got way better demo ratings! This show is going down hill.

Lara wrote:I got it from http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com

I don't know why you're saying they're incorrect, as they're basically the same in both except your site writes it to the hundredth decimal.
Mills was definitely BS-ing, because the host made some joke about how dry paint could get better ratings than Ben H and Mills agreed. That's obviously not true, since he beat nick for at least two episodes. I also don't see why that trend is so unprecedented as I've seen the same thing reported for other scripted shows as well. IMO.

I edited my post after realizing why your numbers looked incorrect. The hundredth decimal points may not seem a lot but it is definitely unexpected since the season viewers are down by almost half a million for episode 3 compared to last year but the demo is up by 0.2. It means that more people in the remaining 7 million which can be compared for the two seasons tuned in to watch this season than the last. If Nick's season continues to perform how it did in episode 3 in terms of numbers - 0.2 increase (and it's a very big IF coz I don't think it would happen - In Millsy's words, it will be truly unprecedented), it'll be comparable to Sean's season in terms of numbers. The 0.2 increase brings more advertisers and keeps a bunch of people employed so I won't discount it.

@sdmom, It just means that they wont try to sell you crap no one needs anyways.

sdmom wrote:

crunchycheeto wrote:I never liked the idea of a person not deserving to be with someone (especially if it's coming from an outsider's perspective). Unless of course the other party is being harmed, whether physically or emotionally. It seems to me like there's this arbitrary ranking of people's worth/value -- like, it will never be objective! At the end of the day, Nick and Vanessa are both adults who can decide if they feel like they "deserve" more or if they feel like their partner is an equal. Let them make that decision; let that relationship or non-relationship play out. I know this is a forum where we all comment on people we don't know personally, but I feel like there's something spiteful in wishing a relationship will fail as opposed to speculating or anticipating it will fail. Those are two very different things.

It should go without saying, but this is all my opinion.

Thank you！you've expressed so much better than what I can post.
I understand not everyone likes Nick and I respect that. However, I will never hope someone, even someone I dislike strongly, getting dumped. Nick is a human being and yes he has many flaws, but he has feelings too. Why  do people want to see him being rejected? What has he done to deserve being hurt, because he's on tv multiple times? So have others. Because he talks about sex too much? However, he's not physically or emotionally abusive, he is not an alcoholic and he doesn't lash out on sm negative posters. If we see signs there are problems then maybe we can start talking/speculating a break up, or who's at fault.
Jmo, of course, and not everyone needs to agree with me.

I love both the posts!

coolangel wrote:@sdmom, It just means that they wont try to sell you crap no one needs anyways.

sdmom wrote:

crunchycheeto wrote:I never liked the idea of a person not deserving to be with someone (especially if it's coming from an outsider's perspective). Unless of course the other party is being harmed, whether physically or emotionally. It seems to me like there's this arbitrary ranking of people's worth/value -- like, it will never be objective! At the end of the day, Nick and Vanessa are both adults who can decide if they feel like they "deserve" more or if they feel like their partner is an equal. Let them make that decision; let that relationship or non-relationship play out. I know this is a forum where we all comment on people we don't know personally, but I feel like there's something spiteful in wishing a relationship will fail as opposed to speculating or anticipating it will fail. Those are two very different things.

It should go without saying, but this is all my opinion.

Thank you！you've expressed so much better than what I can post.
I understand not everyone likes Nick and I respect that. However, I will never hope someone, even someone I dislike strongly, getting dumped. Nick is a human being and yes he has many flaws, but he has feelings too. Why  do people want to see him being rejected? What has he done to deserve being hurt, because he's on tv multiple times? So have others. Because he talks about sex too much? However, he's not physically or emotionally abusive, he is not an alcoholic and he doesn't lash out on sm negative posters. If we see signs there are problems then maybe we can start talking/speculating a break up, or who's at fault.
Jmo, of course, and not everyone needs to agree with me.

I love both the posts!

I totally agree with everything said. Nick deserves to find love just like all of us. I have seen more fake people on this show receive more support than him and I don't see others wishing for them to fail. JMO.