Bachelor In Paradise - Season 3 - All Episodes - Discussions - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #4

Ashley I insulted herself, saying if it fails she'll live in a convent because she'll die alone. Terrible thing to say about anyone.

I think Wells got really really scared at the idea of taking her virginity. I don't know what it is, but my heart was crumbling when he was feeding her those rejection lines. She took it okay though, which is good. He isn't a Jared. So things should be okay.

But I really am starting to fear for her age and her virginity. I truly hope she doesn't lose her mind any worse.

Too many contestants bowing out without giving out the rose.

What was the point of dumping Izzy if you're not going to pick Lauren H? And just because you're invited into the FS, it doesn't mean you have to go in there. And even if you go in there, you could play like Becca, and just spring it on the person at the last minute that you're not interested in FS stuff in the FS.

Good call by Vinny. I don't even know how Izzy even got that thought in her head, that she could go back. She probably doesn't even realize how deeply that hurts. No way Vin was going to open himself up to getting hurt again by the type of person who would hurt him so frivolously despite an emotional investment.

I was surprised how the three to be engaged couples didn't bother me. I think Evan gives Carly a feeling of being loved and adored that she has never felt before and since I find him majority creepy still he is pretty lucky to have a woman who loves him for who he is. Sure his money helps, but it is part of him and I don't think it means more than the way he adores her. I would not be surprised if they marry.

Lace is a hot mess and Grant is a cheater, again maybe two flawed people who may have found something good. I doubt they marry, but I think they are more real in having feelings for each other than a lot of the bachelor/ette couples who got engaged as an agreement to date IRL.

Josh's date with Amanda reminded me of his fantasy date with Andi. I do think Josh loves kids and really does want to be a dad just like his dad. Papa Murray is pretty awesome. I also believe he came to meet Amanda. Did they rush feelings of love because of it being them against the world? Probably. I think he is sincere in wanting love, marriage and kids. He is also loud, somewhat obnoxious, and can use some counseling for his anger and superiority issues, but if we all had to wait to be perfect before we are married very few marriages would ever happen. It is up to Amanda to help him to get counseling for the issues he does have, since they effect her and possibly her kids. Amanda is the unknown in this for me. She has a very flat affect, so I can't tell if she has real feelings for Josh or not. But she was like that with everyone, so I have no idea. I believe Josh, flaws and all, is sincere. Will they marry? I have no idea. I don't have any feeling for what Amanda feels good or bad.

Nick, who was all in with both Andi and Kaitlyn on less time spent together, IMO knows he has nothing beyond physical attraction and like as a friend with Jen. To me he is playing along to the end, it makes me wonder if a possible future on other shows might have been mentioned if he stayed the whole time and was "redeemed" in the eyes of the general viewer. We have seen Nick falling in love and this is not it. I have no feelings about Jen. She was trying so hard to convince him to feel, it was a bit like watching "He's Just Not That Into You". I don't care that they did a fantasy suite, but picking out a ring when you can't even say ILY seems disingenuous to me. Other than that, I think Jen would have been smart to just say thanks for the fun in paradise, but it shouldn't be this hard to try to let yourself like someone else.

All above is JMO.

mtnlvr55 wrote:

Eviebloom wrote:There are so many with different views, but I just cannot see what Carly sees in Evan, he is still creepy to me and I can not see her liking him outside of Paradise.  Josh and Amanda are by far my favorite.  But I have been a fan of Josh, but never a fan of Andi.  She was just too harsh for me and I did not think Josh and Andi were a good match and I think Josh and Amanda are a much better match.  Not a fan at all of Nick and I like Jenn, she should run from him.  Obviously that relationship will not work out.  I also like Grant and Lace but there is a lot of emotional trauma with Lace I think and I hope they can work that out and take care of each other.  Just like I hope Amanda and Josh can actually be better people together.  

Of course I am only guessing: but from looking at Evan's IG he has some money.  He seems to have a successful business and some of his other pictures show that he is pretty cute.  Soooooo.....there are things that give him an appeal. She says they are both weird and "get" each other. I would think that could enough to give it a good try.  Two little weirdos riding off into the sunset. I wish them well.

I think Evan's appeal for Carly is that he has great comedic timing, has made her the focus of his time in Paradise, will try anything, and is wonderfully mischievious & playful. He showed a lot of patience with her as well.  He also seems to be very intelligent based on his witty tweets. It's flattering for any woman to have a man devote so much effort into a courtship.  I think they're off to a great start. Eccentric but healthy relationship.
(Awhile back she apologized publicly on Twitter for some of her rude ITMs.)

IWouldMarryAshleyI wrote:Good call by Vinny. I don't even know how Izzy even got that thought in her head, that she could go back. She probably doesn't even realize how deeply that hurts. No way Vin was going to open himself up to getting hurt again by the type of person who would hurt him so frivolously despite an emotional investment.

weird, right?!
She represents that small group of women that think guys they once dated, and degraded, actually want them back.

Wells looked in actual pain giving Ashley the rose. Then he finally got to dump her right after. It was all so fake. The second Wells got there they told him what to do and he seemed to have no choice. So dumb. And Ashley really does act like a 15 year old talking about sex it's crazy. Wells looked like he wanted to puke.

The Nick and Jen thing was so boring, and he just seems to be faking it for a paycheck (or to be the next Bachelor I swear they were dangling the carrot). I feel like they let Brett go because he wasnt important, but only let Wells and Nick go 1 by 1 in order of importance. I don't get why Nick didn't just leave before the fantasy suite, he seems so not into her... Except they wouldn't let him probs. I also think they maybe couldn't have made him the Bachelor if he left too early. Jmo.

notarose wrote:

IWouldMarryAshleyI wrote:Good call by Vinny. I don't even know how Izzy even got that thought in her head, that she could go back. She probably doesn't even realize how deeply that hurts. No way Vin was going to open himself up to getting hurt again by the type of person who would hurt him so frivolously despite an emotional investment.

 weird, right?!
She represents that small group of women that think guys they once dated, and degraded, actually want them back.

That's happened to me a couple of times. Even a former President knows. Fool me once, you can't get fooled again!

It was a case of buyer's remorse.
You have something and it's good, but something comes along that looks so much better. So you dump the first and trade up. Only to find out, the trade up is a major fail. So glad Vinny realizes this and hopefully won't take her back. He deserves more.

Duke702 wrote:Wells looked in actual pain giving Ashley the rose. Then he finally got to dump her right after. It was all so fake. The second Wells got there they told him what to do and he seemed to have no choice. So dumb. And Ashley really does act like a 15 year old talking about sex it's crazy. Wells looked like he wanted to puke.

The Nick and Jen thing was so boring, and he just seems to be faking it for a paycheck (or to be the next Bachelor I swear they were dangling the carrot). I feel like they let Brett go because he wasnt important, but only let Wells and Nick go 1 by 1 in order of importance. I don't get why Nick didn't just leave before the fantasy suite, he seems so not into her... Except they wouldn't let him probs. I also think they maybe couldn't have made him the Bachelor if he left too early. Jmo.

Yes, you can hear Jen screaming that he isn't into her and how she's going to run away. That's sad if they are just stringing her along. These are people with real feelings. They shouldn't play with people, but maybe the contract morally exempts them from leading people on.

I noticed that neither AI or Wells smiled or seemed happy at the RS. I wondered if they are just telling him to pick her for her feelings. Why do you think Wells wouldn't want her?

And why didn't Wells pick Jami then? Maybe he was just into Shu?

I think it is just too much responsibility for most men to take the virginity of an older girl. Few guys want to be the one just in case the relationship goes sour. Then they'll be responsible for really hurting her feelings rather than for rejecting her early.

The other thing is, I don't think AI's sister Lauren is any more special than AI. You know she is weepy and crazy too. But unlike Ashley, men will take Lauren's version of weepy, but they don't want AI? What is the difference? IMO AI has two major problems (I know many people think she has many and she may): She is prettier than average which makes it hard for men who aren't looking for an above average beauty (some viewers don't consider her beautiful, but she's been described as "super pretty" by others) and she is a virgin at an older age, which makes it that much more serious to go with her.

I liked the insight into girl talk (part of the reason I watch the show, for human psychology). I didn't find AI to be childish when compared to the others involved in that conversation. No surprise there that Carly was the one doing most of the talking about intercourse. AI was just answering. The men also had their conversation about the topic.

SueSt wrote:

mizzoufan wrote:Poor Jen

ITA. She's really putting it all out there and Nick is just noncommittal.
I said it before. Two great people who appreciate each other, want to fall in love, but are just out of timing or something.

Just my 2 cents, I think Nick likes a flirty woman who will pursue him, Kaitlyn & Andi both did this. Jen is a little reserved probably used to being the one pursued so he may not feel as wanted by her then to top it off their relationship would be long distance. Neither one seems to want to alter their lifestyles to move so how it could work? I read where both were kind of blindsided by the offer to Nick to be bachelor a few days before it was announced. It seems to me the powers that be cooled off towards Luke while bachelor in paradise was filming and since Nick already had a following and was getting a good response they went with him. Interesting choice that got people talking to anticipate the season and tune in. Win, Win.

stuckinsc wrote:I was surprised how the three to be engaged couples didn't bother me. I think Evan gives Carly a feeling of being loved and adored that she has never felt before and since I find him majority creepy still he is pretty lucky to have a woman who loves him for who he is. Sure his money helps, but it is part of him and I don't think it means more than the way he adores her. I would not be surprised if they marry.

Lace is a hot mess and Grant is a cheater, again maybe two flawed people who may have found something good. I doubt they marry, but I think they are more real in having feelings for each other than a lot of the bachelor/ette couples who got engaged as an agreement to date IRL.

Josh's date with Amanda reminded me of his fantasy date with Andi. I do think Josh loves kids and really does want to be a dad just like his dad. Papa Murray is pretty awesome. I also believe he came to meet Amanda. Did they rush feelings of love because of it being them against the world? Probably. I think he is sincere in wanting love, marriage and kids. He is also loud, somewhat obnoxious, and can use some counseling for his anger and superiority issues, but if we all had to wait to be perfect before we are married very few marriages would ever happen. It is up to Amanda to help him to get counseling for the issues he does have, since they effect her and possibly her kids. Amanda is the unknown in this for me. She has a very flat affect, so I can't tell if she has real feelings for Josh or not. But she was like that with everyone, so I have no idea. I believe Josh, flaws and all, is sincere. Will they marry? I have no idea. I don't have any feeling for what Amanda feels good or bad.

Nick, who was all in with both Andi and Kaitlyn on less time spent together, IMO knows he has nothing beyond physical attraction and like as a friend with Jen. To me he is playing along to the end, it makes me wonder if a possible future on other shows might have been mentioned if he stayed the whole time and was "redeemed" in the eyes of the general viewer. We have seen Nick falling in love and this is not it. I have no feelings about Jen. She was trying so hard to convince him to feel, it was a bit like watching "He's Just Not That Into You". I don't care that they did a fantasy suite, but picking out a ring when you can't even say ILY seems disingenuous to me. Other than that, I think Jen would have been smart to just say thanks for the fun in paradise, but it shouldn't be this hard to try to let yourself like someone else.

All above is JMO.

Your opinion is exactly my opinion, Stuck.  Although I can't imagine all three couples ultimately working out, on paper, they all make sense to me, even though there is plenty of dysfunction to go around (as with real life couples).  I think Cevan has the best shot (geography, older and fewer options), then Jam (hope Amanda can talk Josh into anger management classes), and Grace seems the most unstable because they both strike me as so immature (especially Lace, even the "new and improved" version).

I have been saying all along that Nick had the hope of being the next Bachelor in the back of his mind (planted there by TPTB) all along, even though I don't expect him to ever admit it.  Jen seemed sweet, but I don't think he saw her as anything more than someone he could date long distance for a while.  The problem with the show setup is that CH tells them that going to the end should signify that the couple is madly in love and ready to get engaged, and in Nick's case, I think he was afraid that even if he told Jen he wasn't ready to get engaged, she would still infer that their relationship was deeper and his feelings for her were more serious than they actually were.   That, and the vision of 25 women possibly fighting over him over the horizon.

The producers would never in a million years cast Ashley as The Bachelorette, unless they decided to do a season as parody.  Even though she is beautiful, her personality and immaturity repel men, they would be leaving in droves.  But it is amusing to think of the kind of dates they could have.  What do kids in middle school do to amuse themselves these days?  And Wells is way too smart to even consider being Ashley's "first".  I truly hope the man who ends up with that chore/honor is totally crazy in love with her, or he is going to need a restraining order pronto.

If a guy is going to date a girl that is saving herself for marriage, then IMO there shouldn't be any feelings of responsibility. You ain't gettin any unless you get married, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Someone can CMIIW, Ashley's sister has not saved herself for marriage. I don't even remember what she looks like but IMO Ashley is not what I consider a beautiful woman, but IMO that's not a reason men don't go after her. IMO it's because she's nuts. Who wants to even think of having a relationship with someone who has wasted a year obsessing and controlling over someone who clearly didn't want her romantically, who cries/fake cries on national tv, who continuously advertises herself as a virgin. IMO she does act like a teenager who lacks the maturity in dealing with boyfriends. She has wasted one year of her life, no one would even consider a relationship with her during that time of obsession. She knew Wells for how long? two days? and she's devastated, walks off in a huff and immediately takes to twitter blaming the edit for her actions. Even Wells was walking on eggshells while he was narrating on how he was going to handle things. She is emotional and he didn't want her to go off the deep end, paraphrasing, but something to that effect.

She has a long way to go before any one would be interested in her IMO. It will take a strong man with a lot of patience and true love to put up with her IMHO.