Re: The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - Scaps - Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #2

Kashathediva wrote:

Rolly wrote:Where has the issue of a Messnick come from? Are people just speculating or was that said somewhere?

Production hype. TPTB will through as much hyped crap out there to see what sticks. Generally it's not much if anything. 
Maybe it's just me, I don't see really anything indicating to me that JoJo is a viable contender.

To me it doesn't add up & I'm not even being biased when saying that. I honestly think if Ben didn't say ILY to JoJo during the FSD, I don't think we'd be here thinking she has any chance imho.But then it would be too obvious and TPTB wouldn't want that. It's been clear since day one who was going to win. I mean to me at least. Just a week before the FSD happened with JoJo, the guy went through a disastrous HTD and then he all of a sudden he's sooooo in love with both f1 & f2. I'd run away if the girl I'm possibly proposing to has ex drama and brothers drama. That's a red flag especially when you don't even have enough time to process it. Unless of course you knew it was part of the script. If only Ben didn't eliminate Caila we'd be having JoJo as the bachelorette *sigh*.

Ladybug82 wrote:IMO, the reason we got so much Lauren love early in the season was because of the drama and doubt created by Ben's multiple I love yous.  If Lauren is indeed F1 as all signs indicate (and I believe she is), TPTB had to show Jojo's catching up and building relationship and the I love yous, because well they're TPTB.  They wouldn't pass up an opportunity at all the drama and angst Ben brought upon himself and they have a show to produce.  Plus, the viewers needed to become invested in both relationships to believe there was indeed a possibility he pulled a switch, or ended up with Jojo and not Lauren (since Jojo's dates have been shown last lately.).  JMOAA.

Want to hear something funny? My unspoiled friend thinks the lady coming back is ... Caila!! She layed out all her reasons and is quite convinced.

I didn't have the heart to tell her that ship has sailed!

It's the same thing every season.
Some see a love story with one contestant, some with another one.
But this time, BOTH are very viable contestant IMO.
I don't see the big deal with Lauren, but I accept that some see it.
So I am not going to dismiss it.
But what is interesting, is that some unspoiled posters do see a great story between Ben and Jojo, and I am happy that it's coming from unbiased opinions.

I just joined this forum so that I could make this observation.... (Not sure if it has been made elsewhere. If so, sorry.)

If you look at the ABC Press Photos here: http://www.disneyabcpress.com/abc/shows/the-bachelor/photos/ you can see that, when Lauren is walking up, the single rose is clearly still on the table, and she is looking neutral as she walks towards Ben. HOWEVER, two photos show Ben holding the single rose, and, in one photo, it definitely looks as though he is looking at someone approaching him as he holds it. JoJo looks happy when she is walking towards him and, in one photo, she has her hand up to her face in surprise just as she did the first time he said he loved her. So maybe she sees him smiling and holding the final rose?

I like Lauren (and hope they are happy if he chose her), but I admit that, in my gut, I am Team JoJo!!

bach wrote:I just joined this forum so that I could make this observation.... (Not sure if it has been made elsewhere. If so, sorry.)  

If you look at the ABC Press Photos here: http://www.disneyabcpress.com/abc/shows/the-bachelor/photos/   you can see that, when Lauren is walking up, the single rose is clearly still on the table, and she is looking neutral as she walks towards Ben.  HOWEVER, two photos show Ben holding the single rose, and, in one photo, it definitely looks as though he is looking at someone approaching him as he holds it.  JoJo looks happy when she is walking towards him and, in one photo, she has her hand up to her face in surprise just as she did the first time he said he loved her.  So maybe she sees him smiling and holding the final rose?  

I like Lauren (and hope they are happy if he chose her), but I admit that, in my gut, I am Team JoJo!!

It has been discussed that Ben holding the rose was just for a photo. The lead never holds up the rose when the girls are approaching.

Yes, I thought of that, and it seems the likely explanation. However, the Bachelor never tells two women he loves them either. :D So, you just never know... And JoJo does look as though she is reacting positively to something as she approaches! (as though there is a sign that it is her he has chosen)

bach wrote:I just joined this forum so that I could make this observation.... (Not sure if it has been made elsewhere. If so, sorry.)  

If you look at the ABC Press Photos here: http://www.disneyabcpress.com/abc/shows/the-bachelor/photos/   you can see that, when Lauren is walking up, the single rose is clearly still on the table, and she is looking neutral as she walks towards Ben.  HOWEVER, two photos show Ben holding the single rose, and, in one photo, it definitely looks as though he is looking at someone approaching him as he holds it.  JoJo looks happy when she is walking towards him and, in one photo, she has her hand up to her face in surprise just as she did the first time he said he loved her.  So maybe she sees him smiling and holding the final rose?  

I like Lauren (and hope they are happy if he chose her), but I admit that, in my gut, I am Team JoJo!!

I had the exact same reaction when I first seen those pics as well. It's like they strategically placed them in that order so that we were given the impression that jojo see's him with the rose & is therefor smiling. BUT..if you look at the numbers associated with the pictures you'll see that the pic of ben holding the rose while seemingly looking at someone are significantly after the pic numbers of Jojo making her way to him. The pic is actually taken I believe before Lauren is there as well according to her pic numbers. I'm assuming the pics of Ben are just promo shots (although it really does look like he's looking at someone in the smiling one)

bach wrote:Yes, I thought of that, and it seems the likely explanation.  However, the Bachelor never tells two women he loves them either.  :D  So, you just never know...  And JoJo does look as though she is reacting positively to something as she approaches!  (as though there is a sign that it is her he has chosen)

Andy Baldwin told both women he was in love/or loved them. 
IMO this is only a hair different and doesn't make much difference, to me.

bach wrote:I just joined this forum so that I could make this observation.... (Not sure if it has been made elsewhere. If so, sorry.)  

If you look at the ABC Press Photos here: http://www.disneyabcpress.com/abc/shows/the-bachelor/photos/   you can see that, when Lauren is walking up, the single rose is clearly still on the table, and she is looking neutral as she walks towards Ben.  HOWEVER, two photos show Ben holding the single rose, and, in one photo, it definitely looks as though he is looking at someone approaching him as he holds it.  JoJo looks happy when she is walking towards him and, in one photo, she has her hand up to her face in surprise just as she did the first time he said he loved her.  So maybe she sees him smiling and holding the final rose?  

I like Lauren (and hope they are happy if he chose her), but I admit that, in my gut, I am Team JoJo!!

If no one messed with the photo #'s, I think it is clear Lauren is later. When Ben is holding up the rose seems to be right after Jojo (or F2) left because he looks exhausted and sad. He's making the transition to be ready to see Lauren (or F1) after he said good-bye to F2. I think Jojo is just so happy to see Ben...usually this happens with F2's. They want to jump into the male lead's arms (Chantal, Lindsey, Tenley come to mind). Then, that's when the viewers go, "Oh no, this is going to be brutal." Lauren looks like she is bracing herself a bit for bad news. Plus, the lead never holds up the rose right away to show their F1 - they go through a shpiel first, ask them to marry them (or be asked), then say, "Will you accept the final rose?" (At least, that's been the pattern thus far, I think).

I'm spoiled, but I'm certainly not biased towards one or the other because of knowing whose F1 and F2.  I will wish the happy couple and the F2 well regardless of how it turns out.  Alot of times, I end up seeing more of a real genuine connection and relationship forming between the F2 and the lead than the F1 and lead.  Or not wanting the ones I like to end up F1 and be stuck with the lead!  

I think Ben, Lauren and Jojo are all nice people and all seem ok based on SM behavior and all post filming, regardless of how it plays out.

I see a great friendship with Jojo and Ben and lots of physical chemistry.  Ben says he had genuine feelings of love towards each, so I'm not going to dismiss whatever he had with each girl.  This time around, I just see more of a connection with Lauren and Ben than I do Jojo and Ben.  And with Jojo and Ben I sometimes get more of a your hot and it's fun to make out / friends with benefits vibe, but not sure they'd actually give each other the time of day, had they met in real life and werent immersed in the bubble of Fliess world.  But maybe the same could be said about Lauren and Ben, who knows.  

I really wonder what we weren't shown too.  A lot of times I think that geting to view what was left on the cutting room floor would be far better than what we are actually shown.  JMOAA.

sophienette wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:Maybe it's just me, I don't see really anything indicating to me that JoJo is a viable contender.

not just you The potential hints of Jojo F1 are too weak against the ticks in Lauren's column from our sleuthing.

And not just you two - I am in the same boat as well. I've seen nothing in our sleuthing that supports JoJo as F1 based on what has been, traditionally, the strongest evidence of F1 - SCs that identify the time of day of the FRC (usually based on lighting) for both F1 and F2 and picture ID numbers that indicate which girl was first and which was second to the FRC.

It's clear, as I read posts and threads that some see JoJo as F1; such is always the case when TPTB do their job well, which they usually do. But (based on the current poll results) 10 voters here see JoJo as F1 and 74 see Lauren as F1; so apparently it's not just the 3 of us that don't see JoJo as a viable contender.
JMHO

Lucas15 wrote:

sophienette wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:Maybe it's just me, I don't see really anything indicating to me that JoJo is a viable contender.

not just you The potential hints of Jojo F1 are too weak against the ticks in Lauren's column from our sleuthing.

And not just you two - I am in the same boat as well. I've seen nothing in our sleuthing that supports JoJo as F1 based on what has been, traditionally, the strongest evidence of F1 - SCs that identify the time of day of the FRC (usually based on lighting) for both F1 and F2 and picture ID numbers that indicate which girl was first and which was second to the FRC.

It's clear, as I read posts and threads that some see JoJo as F1; such is always the case when TPTB do their job well, which they usually do. But (based on the current poll results) 10 voters here see JoJo as F1 and 74 see Lauren as F1; so apparently it's not just the 3 of us that don't see JoJo as a viable contender.

Lucas, one question- you seem to have some knowledge about the production aspect...what if they had two different photographers or used 2 different cameras? Then the numbers would be off. Not saying this is the case... if I'm not one of the 74, add me, 75.