Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - 11 - Discussion #9

AllAboutLove wrote:

Litta123 wrote:I can't believe I'm writing this, but I've seen it referenced in a few posts about Andi's book and it has me perplexed. I can only guess that Andi must have replied to Nick that she would rather make love (versus the other choice) in the FS. Hence, his question, "Why did you make love with me?" on ATFR versus why did she have sex with him. My guess is that Nick was looking for some reassurance in the FS and thus approached the topic in a way that could inform him. Again my guess is that this is what confused Nick into thinking they were doing fiancé type stuff.

I am definitely NOT wanting to reopen the debate, but trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together now that there's a little more info available. If, if, if my interpretation is correct, it actually gives me more understanding and empathy into why Nick went there with her on national TV. At the time, I felt his question was out of bounds (and I like Nick), but now it makes more sense to me why he needed that answer to help reach closure.  

In the words of Ed Swiderski, this show is a "m!ndf()ck".

Great post and ITA. It makes so much sense to me and explains what I've always thought regarding that question and the way Nick put it. Also, if anything, the "would you rather" type of question confirms for me that Nick is more of an open communicator in relationships and seeks to understand the other person (which I think is a mature adult-like approach) so likely saw it as fiancé type stuff since the differentiation was made and from Andi's side most likely and IMO. Andi on the other hand has shown me she avoids open communication like the plague and it's why I think she is extremely immature in relationships as well as narcissistic and doesn't have the skills to communicate effectively so she avoids or attacks only. Her book has only shed a more favorable light on Nick for me.

Not just Nick! Every man involved with this immature, spoiled brat.

^ That too

Litta, I completely agree with you.  He used those particular words when asking his question to her both times. Once on the night of the deed and then again after the fact. I always thought he was trying to differentiate between sex for purely physical reasons alone and sex as a way to consummate a more long lasting type of relationship.... Fiancé type stuff.

At the ATFR, I don't think he did cared that the rest of the world did not see the full meaning of his statement. He was trying to have an open conversation with the woman he used to love and find out why she gave him very mixed signals. She told him that she wanted to "make love". Therefore (in his mind) indicating a more long lasting type of relationship. Not just f***ing to satisfy a physical craving alone. I can see why he was so blindsided by her rejection a few days later.

Oh Nick you are a gem, she did come back but you send her packing, good on you. She was not worth it.

I'm sorry but I read the book.  The chapter about what he said in the fantasy suite with regards to "making love" and "f*cking" is pretty damning and leads me to believe that he intentionally tried to humiliate her at the ATFR.  And I did not feel that way during the season!  And then, after Kaitlyn he was chasing JoJo.  Can he date someone not affiliated with the show? He sounds like a tool.

I read the book too. I thought the would you rather question was cute and funny. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

In absolutely no way do I think he set her up during atfr. When I watched the entire thing (not just the FS admission) he looked on the verge of crying, and he isnt that good of an actor as evidenced by the staged room key debacle.

He might not be very PC or have that great of a taste in women, but he isn't a tool IMO

Cecilia wrote:I'm sorry but I read the book.  The chapter about what he said in the fantasy suite with regards to "making love" and "f*cking" is pretty damning and leads me to believe that he intentionally tried to humiliate her at the ATFR.  And I did not feel that way during the season!  And then, after Kaitlyn he was chasing JoJo.  Can he date someone not affiliated with the show? He sounds like a tool.

IA. If what he is quoted as saying is true, he was pretty graphic about what he wanted 3 out of 4 times in the FS.    
He is responsible for his own actions at the ATFR, can't blame it on Andi and as you say, he went back for more with Kaitlyn on the same show.  
But still, there are two sides to her storie(s).

Cecilia wrote:I'm sorry but I read the book.  The chapter about what he said in the fantasy suite with regards to "making love" and "f*cking" is pretty damning and leads me to believe that he intentionally tried to humiliate her at the ATFR.  And I did not feel that way during the season!  And then, after Kaitlyn he was chasing JoJo.  Can he date someone not affiliated with the show? He sounds like a tool.

That's because he is a tool 

I do not believe what she said because if he said that and she went back to chicago, and went to his apartment and was thinking of sleeping with him again that contradict her.

Litta, like your post about the Making love = fiancé type stuff.  All of us know what it's like to have such passion that you just want to express that during sex. I equate that to F***ing as Nick referenced. We also know the sweetness of being seduced which I equate to love-making. No doubt Nick was feeling it for Andi and if what he allegedly asked Andi is true, and she replied Make Love, then Nick responded in kind and interpreted it in kind.

Cecilia wrote:I'm sorry but I read the book.  The chapter about what he said in the fantasy suite with regards to "making love" and "f*cking" is pretty damning and leads me to believe that he intentionally tried to humiliate her at the ATFR.  

I read that part too and don't see how it is damning at all?

Andi clearly stated that they would have this "Would You Rather" game that only them two would play the entire season so him saying that is not like it came out of the blue... it was "their thing" so to speak to play "Would You Rather".

I hardly see Nick asking in the Fantasy Suite when sex is involved whether "making love" or "F***ing" is damning... if anything I think it shows that he was differentiating between whether this was just a physical thing or whether it had meaning aka "fiance type stuff" and that is why he used those particular words "making love" at ATFR because Andi had led him to believe that it was more than that.

Regardless of what he said, the fact remains that Andi went back (her choice) for more and visited Nick in his apartment in Chicago after she broke up with her F1 and wrote she thought "will I have sex with him" so if anyone was playing games and telling lies it was Andi, imo, since Andi went back for more and it is because of that that I find Andi's behavior herself pretty damning.

jmo

Norcalgal wrote:Litta, like your post about the Making love = fiancé type stuff.  All of us know what it's like to have such passion that you just want to express that during sex. I equate that to F***ing as Nick referenced. We also know the sweetness of being seduced which I equate to love-making. No doubt Nick was feeling it for Andi and if what he allegedly asked Andi is true, and she replied Make Love, then Nick responded in kind and interpreted it in kind.

She did answer Make Love, but had an excuse for it. Just read it earlier.