The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - Episode 8 - HTD - Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

nutty1 wrote:I am going to be out of town all day....   Anyway, has anyone looked at the previews to see what date it was where Ben said "I've been in love with you for a while"?  THANKS!!!

I will be back scouring the board tonight!

I actually thought both of the ILY's shown were with Lauren. The longer one at night and the "I do love you" the morning after. Perhaps he said the other ILY to someone in the throes of passion in the FS and we won't even get to see it, like with Kaitlyn and Nick.

Did anyone else notice that during the HTD, the only person he ever mentioned proposing to "at the end of this" was Lauren.

When asked by the other parents, he just said something about if he proposed it would be because the relationship he had with "that woman" was real and right.

But he specifically said Lauren's name when talking about it to her family. I thought that was very telling!

nutty1 wrote:I am going to be out of town all day.... Anyway, has anyone looked at the previews to see what date it was where Ben said "I've been in love with you for a while"? THANKS!!!

I will be back scouring the board tonight!

I promise to do SCs in about 5 hours if none done by then (and maybe even then ;) )

To me the most telling was when Mollie said (sorry, not verbatim!) "you might go to another family and tell them you LOVE their danghter and want to PROPOSE to her"... it sounded as if he had just told her these things... just me?

My thoughts about Episode 8 which I will organize based on the order of filming rather than the order shown:

Amanda - a pretty girl who has made some bad choices in men, birth control perhaps, and wardrobe for certain. While this was edited to make it seem as though Ben had concerns about becoming an instant step-father I think the bigger issue was that he wasn't in love with Amanda (maybe only in like with her) and knew he never would fall in love with her, and IMO you only can become a good step parent if you are in love with someone. IMO Amanda knew it was never going to happen and wasn't very upset when she was eliminated.

Caila - Caila confuses me because she seems to be confused herself and confused about herself. I felt the focus on ethnicity was mostly to write that into her story in anticipation of becoming the next lead. Whether she will be or won't be - they have that on film to promote if they decide to go that way. It was a cute date and Ben seemed less awkward on it than he did with Amanda.

JoJo - well, I expected fake; I've been posting that I see fake, and I got fake. IMO they were able to write a lot of drama surrounding JoJo and the character she portrays and they just maxed that out. Once Olivia left they had to do something to create drama and JoJo was the best character to give them that. A couple of things about her brothers and Ben Patton's appearance on Ready For Love. I watched that abysmal failure of a show with an interesting concept. The idea was that there were a series of dating coaches that met with the girls dating the bachelor and told them how to be successful in getting chosen by him, based on mistakes they had made and the girls they were competing against. At its heart I don't think RFL was all that different - the bachelor encourages or discourages and third parties manipulate the girls to get the interactions they want to make for good TV. Only with RFL the manipulations of the girls were shown and viewers were in on how they were manipulated into doing things to keep the bachelor's interest. I don't have a problem with the brothers seeing that Ben was not all that into JoJo because IMO he wasn't - the problem was how they went about confronting Ben on that. They put Ben in a corner and seemed to expect truth when in fact there was no way the show could let Ben say the truth. But it made good TV. Because IMO most of this date was so fake it's hard to determine if any part of it is real to me, but there is one possibility and that is that Chad may really want JoJo back, and TPTB might have known this and that's how they got Chad to play along with a letter and a phone call. IMO JoJo would probably go back eventually and this might explain why someone who would seem a prime candidate for The Bachelorette ends up in F2 where it's difficult to cast her as the lead. Perhaps JoJo went on the show to make Chad jealous and commit and I only say this because that's happened before.

So, at this point in filming Ben has been put through the ringer on 3 HTD with 3 families in situations where he has to try and convince the families of something he knows isn't there. I think he was emotionally drained and after 3 uncomfortable experiences probably be scared about his 4th data and wondering how sideways it would go. Which is exactly why they filmed in the order they did.

Lauren - great choice in date venue and she knew (or got coached) to do something Ben would really enjoy. I enjoyed the family dynamic and it was pretty obvious to me that Mollie was not going to be confrontational - she seemed to be almost as smitten with Ben as Lauren - not for herself or romantically - just that she could feel a chemistry with Ben that helped her to understand what Lauren could feel. One high point for me was when she asked Ben what it was that was special about Lauren and Ben couldn't answer in words - only in tears - and Mollie said "I think I have the answer". I did think it interesting that the family was concerned knowing that Lauren falls fast when she falls because Ben is "self aware" that he does the very same thing. I think this begins to explain why they both have, IMO fallen for each other and why it seems to have happened so quickly, and so strongly. IMO the producers had to work overtime to keep Lauren from telling Ben she is in love with him and why also, IMO, when she does it will probably be something like "I've known I'm in love with you for a while" and it will explain how Ben came to say (in previews we've seen) "I've known I'm in love with you for a while, as well" - mirroring what Lauren says to him.

At the end of this last date I think Ben could be feeling pretty good because the HTD that he really cared about went as well as I think he hoped for.

As always, JMHO

Thanks Lucas!! Great post and think you nailed everything, including our next Bachelorette.

eliza3 wrote:I have a questions I am hoping the mods can answer as I am also bothered by the negative comments about family.  I went back and read the rules about posting which talk about insulting and name calling not be allowed when talking about relatives who are not contestants themselves.    Can someone clarify what exactly that means in reference to this conversation?

Thanks

Perhaps this will help, if not feel free to contact one of us via pm and we can review in more detail: rules
*snipped* Posting - No insults, defamatory, name calling, insinuating, blaming attacking, racists, swearing, pornographic, deliberate annoying or taunting posts to bait others, that are negative in nature towards the moderators, administrators, Forum Rules, or towards other members of this forum, or relatives of reality tv contestants who are not contestants themselves.

Per the bolded: anyone(family/friends) that I was aware of being discussed were cast on the show as part of the HTD. Is there someone specific discussed that was not part of last night's episode?

Ignoring the spoilers.  My only "fear" (use that term very loosely) is that it's too obvious Lauren is the F1.  I am wondering if the reason MF loves this season so much is Ben was obviously all about Lauren.  Did he come out of pretty much no where and pick JojJo.  That would explain why they are so obvious about who the F1 is, the Mesnick references (besides his cries), and why MF loved this season.

I personally think it's a marketing mind game this time and the predicted outcome will happen. Still, however it came about..I suspect that he is overjoyed that the situation gave him the necessary footage to say that it is a "Mesnick" of sorts so that he could (perhaps loosely?) apply the term again and ride it for the mileage it will deliver in a season where the winner seems apparent. ..even if it doesn't ultimately have the associated big switcheroo at the end.

The Mesnick situaion delivered a 6.7 in the demo and 17.4 million viewers. If he can get even a fraction of that in today's network market, with what is likely still, a straightforward pick..he's golden.

Once again though, still wondering how JoJo (if it is her) gets the second ILY after that HTD debacle? Wouldn't that suggest that feelings are pretty strong if he can put that aside and continue on with her and mutter those words?

I don't really see her a completely out of the running for the Bachelorette as I can see how they could use it to attract big alpha personalities to face the brothers. Also, as someone said up thread, the anticipation of these encounters would be a ploy they could use all season. On the sports boards I read, the guys love JoJo, like Becca and kind of forget who Caila even is.

ETA: I saw a few folks on twitter challenge Andi's comment as a slip of the tongue..that as the Bachelorette, Chad would appear to try to nab JoJo or be one of the contestants.

I thought all family including the ones appearing on HTD were out of bound as they are not contestants.

Kashathediva wrote:

eliza3 wrote:I have a questions I am hoping the mods can answer as I am also bothered by the negative comments about family.  I went back and read the rules about posting which talk about insulting and name calling not be allowed when talking about relatives who are not contestants themselves.    Can someone clarify what exactly that means in reference to this conversation?

Thanks

Perhaps this will help, if not feel free to contact one of us via pm and we can review in more detail: rules
*snipped* Posting - No insults, defamatory, name calling, insinuating, blaming attacking, racists, swearing, pornographic, deliberate annoying or taunting posts to bait others, that are negative in nature towards the moderators, administrators, Forum Rules, or towards other members of this forum, or relatives of reality tv contestants who are not contestants themselves.

Per the bolded: anyone(family/friends) that I was aware of being discussed were cast on the show as part of the HTD. Is there someone specific discussed that was not part of last night's episode?

Thank you, that helps a lot.   I was viewing the relatives, family as bystanders for the episode, like shop owners or the bartender at the whiskey library, not people who were cast.      I misunderstood.

Just rewatched Lauren's hometown. The tears in both of their eyes during the end of whiskey library portion of the date......HOLY COW! I have a feeling this FRC is going down in the books as the greatest ever. I truly believe these two are the real deal!

seton wrote:
robert mills

Next week a HISTORIC #TheBachelor. #ILoveYou.....AndYou

Not just historic, but HISTORIC! Shocking, earth-shattering, the most dramatic episode, EVA!