The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - Episode 7 - Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

And I don't mean to demean you or your opinion. This show is simply so ridiculous, it's what has made it last 20 seasons--vs. the implied possible love story the viewer keeps hoping for.
If the end result is love or even better, lasting love that's the cherry on the sundae. Nice, but that isn't what bringing in the weekly ratings bacon.

Kashathediva wrote:IDK...I personally don't base my happiness on a reality tv couple. That's just me.  I won't be disappointed unless Ben marries Chris Manson. I hoped for better for Ben.

I really feel like they are giving us a love story. Are they trying to make it look like Lauren possibly isn't the one with "Mesnicks" and confusing previews...sure. It behooves the franchise to depict a real love story if it is there. Seems like Ben and Lauren served it up on a silver platter. Of course, they don't want it to be too obvious, but they know they have gold...so why not show us a bit of it now...reminds me of JP and Ash...we saw their love story with tidbits of Ben and Ash's attraction.There may be shocking things that happen, but him picking anyone else beside Lauren, I don't think so.

limoncello wrote:also, this episode made me see how Amanda is not into Ben at all. The only time when she showed some emotion during this whole season was crying when Emily went home (so far). at least she made some great friendships

I think Amanda is a producer pick for the single mom drama. And it looks like they will go out with the drama on her HT.

harts05 wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:IDK...I personally don't base my happiness on a reality tv couple. That's just me.  I won't be disappointed unless Ben marries Chris Manson. I hoped for better for Ben.

oh gosh...neither do I...I'm just saying from looking at the forums and even the ones that are unspoiled...I just don't think that tptb are going out of their way to show the obvious connection between Ben and Lauren to throw us all of in the end and have him send Lauren home to propose to JoJo, who he "loves more"...again..jmo

I can easily see that it could be JoJo in the end unless the family drama puts him over the edge. But then the drama gives him something to work through and fight for if it is JoJo he really wants. I see Ben being more into Lauren than she is into him. She says all the right things but there is something off with her. JMO. JoJo and Ben seem to have more depth in their conversations.

Lauren got the obvious F1 date. I wonder if he let JoJo go and the decided he couldn't live without her.

Rolly wrote:

harts05 wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:IDK...I personally don't base my happiness on a reality tv couple. That's just me.  I won't be disappointed unless Ben marries Chris Manson. I hoped for better for Ben.

oh gosh...neither do I...I'm just saying from looking at the forums and even the ones that are unspoiled...I just don't think that tptb are going out of their way to show the obvious connection between Ben and Lauren to throw us all of in the end and have him send Lauren home to propose to JoJo, who he "loves more"...again..jmo

I can easily see that it could be JoJo in the end unless the family drama puts him over the edge. But then the drama gives him something to work through and fight for if it is JoJo he really wants. I see Ben being more into Lauren than she is into him. She says all the right things but there is something off with her. JMO. JoJo and Ben seem to have more depth in their conversations.

Lauren got the obvious F1 date. I wonder if he let JoJo go and the decided he couldn't live without her.

Funny how we can see things so differently. IMO JoJo is saying the right things, but really nothing at all. And the inclusion of her ex has made me doubt any authenticity I thought she had. 

Maybe Ben will duel with JoJo's ex for her love. That'd be something we've never seen before.

Fingersandtoes wrote:IMO JoJo is saying the right things, but really nothing at all. And the inclusion of her ex has made me doubt any authenticity I thought she had.

I happened to watch the Warsaw episode again yesterday - it seem like each time I watch an episode I see things that I hadn't seen before, and true to form that happened yesterday.

In the very beginning, Ben meets the girls with a boat and takes them across the lake to the cottage they stayed at (and where he asked Lauren out for their date) and as they drive across the lake, JoJo says that Warsaw would be a great place to have kids and raise a family.

It struck me as such a scripted and stupid thing for her to say. First of all she hasn't seen anything of Warsaw yet - she just got there so how could she possibly know it would be a great place to raise a family? In fact since her date was 2+ hours away in Chicago (by Google Maps) she actually never did get to see much of Warsaw. Second of all, unlike Arlington where CS wanted to live and raise a family, Ben has moved and AFIK never expressed any intent to move back to Warsaw so why would JoJo try to build up how great Warsaw is. The reason for visiting Warsaw was to show the girls why Ben is "who" he is and what his values are and only Lauren got to see that side of Warsaw - in considerable detail I might add, and with precisely the end result that IMO Ben had in mind for the trip in the first place. And lastly, a statement like that has been so overused to "play" the lead into thinking a certain girl wants a family and white picket fence in their hometown.

This isn't the only thing that just seems scripted about JoJo. The difficulty of dealing with past hurt leading to walls that must be broken down is nothing new - I seem to have heard that same story line used before - many times. It just seems to me to be a typical show plot - a blank canvas on which the show can have Ben write a plausible story line to have picked someone - a typical smoke screen with little substance.

Lucas15 wrote:

Fingersandtoes wrote:IMO JoJo is saying the right things, but really nothing at all. And the inclusion of her ex has made me doubt any authenticity I thought she had.

I happened to watch the Warsaw episode again yesterday - it seem like each time I watch an episode I see things that I hadn't seen before, and true to form that happened yesterday.
***snipped***
It struck me as such a scripted and stupid thing for her to say. First of all she hasn't seen anything of Warsaw yet - she just got there so how could she possibly know it would be a great place to raise a family? In fact since her date was 2+ hours away in Chicago (by Google Maps) she actually never did get to see much of Warsaw. Second of all, unlike Arlington where CS wanted to live and raise a family, Ben has moved and AFIK never expressed any intent to move back to Warsaw so why would JoJo try to build up how great Warsaw is. The reason for visiting Warsaw was to show the girls why Ben is "who" he is and what his values are and only Lauren got to see that side of Warsaw - in considerable detail I might add, and with precisely the end result that IMO Ben had in mind for the trip in the first place. And lastly, a statement like that has been so overused to "play" the lead into thinking a certain girl wants a family and white picket fence in their hometown.

This isn't the only thing that just seems scripted about JoJo. The difficulty of dealing with past hurt leading to walls that must be broken down is nothing new - I seem to have heard that same story line used before - many times. It just seems to me to be a typical show plot - a blank canvas on which the show can have Ben write a plausible story line to have picked someone - a typical smoke screen with little substance.

It was a scripted line--needed to lead into the storyline of being in Warsaw, IN and her future in his life(even though Warsaw is not his current life, it has a lot of roots for him).  I guess any of the women could have said it, but being that JoJo will make it past HTD, TPTB chose her to say it. IMO it was kind of a subliminal message to the audience: How will JoJo fit into Ben's life. Then they take her on a date that has little to do with his life, simply an interest.
The show has her storyline with her mentioning her past relationship and then deals with this issue next week. It was not spontaneous. It was meant to be. Nothing was left to chance.

Kashathediva wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

Fingersandtoes wrote:IMO JoJo is saying the right things, but really nothing at all. And the inclusion of her ex has made me doubt any authenticity I thought she had.

I happened to watch the Warsaw episode again yesterday - it seem like each time I watch an episode I see things that I hadn't seen before, and true to form that happened yesterday.
***snipped***
It struck me as such a scripted and stupid thing for her to say. First of all she hasn't seen anything of Warsaw yet - she just got there so how could she possibly know it would be a great place to raise a family? In fact since her date was 2+ hours away in Chicago (by Google Maps) she actually never did get to see much of Warsaw. Second of all, unlike Arlington where CS wanted to live and raise a family, Ben has moved and AFIK never expressed any intent to move back to Warsaw so why would JoJo try to build up how great Warsaw is. The reason for visiting Warsaw was to show the girls why Ben is "who" he is and what his values are and only Lauren got to see that side of Warsaw - in considerable detail I might add, and with precisely the end result that IMO Ben had in mind for the trip in the first place. And lastly, a statement like that has been so overused to "play" the lead into thinking a certain girl wants a family and white picket fence in their hometown.

This isn't the only thing that just seems scripted about JoJo. The difficulty of dealing with past hurt leading to walls that must be broken down is nothing new - I seem to have heard that same story line used before - many times. It just seems to me to be a typical show plot - a blank canvas on which the show can have Ben write a plausible story line to have picked someone - a typical smoke screen with little substance.

It was a scripted line--needed to lead into the storyline of being in Warsaw, IN and her future in his life(even though Warsaw is not his current life, it has a lot of roots for him).  I guess any of the women could have said it, but being that JoJo will make it past HTD, TPTB chose her to say it. IMO it was kind of a subliminal message to the audience: How will JoJo fit into Ben's life. Then they take her on a date that has little to do with his life, simply an interest.
The show has her storyline with her mentioning her past relationship and then deals with this issue next week. It was not spontaneous. It was meant to be. Nothing was left to chance.

Kasha, I agree with you, and disagree with Lucas' take on JoJo's statement - the one about Warsaw being a good place in order to raise a family.  That depiction of Warsaw to me was like looking at a Norman Rockwell painting of what I could imagine a small Midwestern town would look like, a throwback to a time when life moved much slower, where people actually KNEW their neighbors.  In general, that is exactly how I would have felt myself if I was ANY of those women - and that being that Warsaw just had that FEEL of a good place to live and raise a family in.

But, I am not blinded by the relationship that seems to be forming between Ben and Lauren, and I don't take things so literally that I dissect every conversation or soundbite made by these women.  And I agree with Kasha that the reason that that was shown is because it is part of JoJo's storyline.

Lucas15 wrote:

Fingersandtoes wrote:IMO JoJo is saying the right things, but really nothing at all. And the inclusion of her ex has made me doubt any authenticity I thought she had.

I happened to watch the Warsaw episode again yesterday - it seem like each time I watch an episode I see things that I hadn't seen before, and true to form that happened yesterday.

In the very beginning, Ben meets the girls with a boat and takes them across the lake to the cottage they stayed at (and where he asked Lauren out for their date) and as they drive across the lake, JoJo says that Warsaw would be a great place to have kids and raise a family.

It struck me as such a scripted and stupid thing for her to say. First of all she hasn't seen anything of Warsaw yet - she just got there so how could she possibly know it would be a great place to raise a family? In fact since her date was 2+ hours away in Chicago (by Google Maps) she actually never did get to see much of Warsaw. Second of all, unlike Arlington where CS wanted to live and raise a family, Ben has moved and AFIK never expressed any intent to move back to Warsaw so why would JoJo try to build up how great Warsaw is. The reason for visiting Warsaw was to show the girls why Ben is "who" he is and what his values are and only Lauren got to see that side of Warsaw - in considerable detail I might add, and with precisely the end result that IMO Ben had in mind for the trip in the first place. And lastly, a statement like that has been so overused to "play" the lead into thinking a certain girl wants a family and white picket fence in their hometown.

This isn't the only thing that just seems scripted about JoJo. The difficulty of dealing with past hurt leading to walls that must be broken down is nothing new - I seem to have heard that same story line used before - many times. It just seems to me to be a typical show plot - a blank canvas on which the show can have Ben write a plausible story line to have picked someone - a typical smoke screen with little substance.

The girls all saw Warsaw before Ben took them over to the house they were to stay in. They walked the "downtown" and threw leaves in the park. I'm not sure how big it is but I'm quite sure they drove through it. As for her guard up, her walls not coming down, to me is simply because she, as well as the others, cannot help but see Ben's eyes light up, the many looks he gives Lauren and the reassurance he gives her even in front of them.

Rolly wrote:

harts05 wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:IDK...I personally don't base my happiness on a reality tv couple. That's just me.  I won't be disappointed unless Ben marries Chris Manson. I hoped for better for Ben.

oh gosh...neither do I...I'm just saying from looking at the forums and even the ones that are unspoiled...I just don't think that tptb are going out of their way to show the obvious connection between Ben and Lauren to throw us all of in the end and have him send Lauren home to propose to JoJo, who he "loves more"...again..jmo

I can easily see that it could be JoJo in the end unless the family drama puts him over the edge. But then the drama gives him something to work through and fight for if it is JoJo he really wants. I see Ben being more into Lauren than she is into him. She says all the right things but there is something off with her. JMO. JoJo and Ben seem to have more depth in their conversations.

Lauren got the obvious F1 date. I wonder if he let JoJo go and the decided he couldn't live without her.

I don't think it's anyone but Lauren for Ben ... but I completely agree with the bolded at the same time.

albean99 wrote:

RileyJoy wrote:Hi! New poster here. I was an early fan of the Bachelor (started watching when Alex Michel was on) then stopped, and recently jumped back on the bandwagon. Can't stay away from the fun.

Something occurred to me while watching the episode last night. The producers made it pretty damn obvious that Ben is in enamored with Lauren. All blogs and spoilers say he picks Lauren in the end. But I can't help but wonder if this is all for show? The producers are infamous for creating story lines that didn't even exist in order to fool the audience. The last couple of episodes almost made it TOO obvious that Ben will end up with Lauren...which makes me believe that he ends up choosing someone instead. I'm probably reading too much into all of this haha, but what do you all think??

RileyJoy!

You'd think it's too obvious but I'm sure they'll try to confuse us over the next month. Of course there's always the possibility of the spoilers being wrong but it's hard to get past how Ben looks at Lauren.

That's true. The previews have been trying to hint that Ben is "torn between two women" so maybe they'll play up the JoJo and Ben love story in the next couple of weeks to confuse us.

Rolly wrote:

harts05 wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:IDK...I personally don't base my happiness on a reality tv couple. That's just me.  I won't be disappointed unless Ben marries Chris Manson. I hoped for better for Ben.

oh gosh...neither do I...I'm just saying from looking at the forums and even the ones that are unspoiled...I just don't think that tptb are going out of their way to show the obvious connection between Ben and Lauren to throw us all of in the end and have him send Lauren home to propose to JoJo, who he "loves more"...again..jmo

I can easily see that it could be JoJo in the end unless the family drama puts him over the edge. But then the drama gives him something to work through and fight for if it is JoJo he really wants. I see Ben being more into Lauren than she is into him. She says all the right things but there is something off with her. JMO. JoJo and Ben seem to have more depth in their conversations.

Lauren got the obvious F1 date. I wonder if he let JoJo go and the decided he couldn't live without her.

YES. I agree with this too. I can't read Lauren B. very well. Maybe the show hasn't given her enough air time for me to really gauge her personality. She seems nice enough, but it's weird that she seems to always say the right things at the right time. Everyone else has flaws, but Lauren is seemingly perfect. Someone on another forum (or maybe it's this one?) said ABC has been portraying Ben has the perfect guy so they're going to give his F1 a "perfect" edit as well, which makes sense I suppose.