The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - General Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #3

nutty1 wrote:Sophie, thank you!! It is awesome to read it.

GuardianAngel wrote:sophie graciously did that already!!!

No discussion - text

Thanks GA and Sophie! I now remember seeing this and at the time wondered why do it - until I now realized why it's so important - Sophie heard all the edits they did to make things seem one particular way which IMO is misleading. Of course the way the editors frankenbite the end of season previews is stuff of which legends are made.

It might be good some someone to indicate where the voices change...

sophienette wrote:It might be good some someone to indicate where the voices change...

Sophie that's pretty much where my head was at when I posted about transcribing what we hear in the preview (which GA graciously pointed me to your hard work transcribing it all). Of course there's a couple of common tricks that the editors use to "fabricate" a perception that's misleading:

1 - They will splice an audio track with a video track and make it seem that someone says a sentence, when in fact the video and audio only match up for a portion and some of the audio is a VO. An example of this is Ben's line "Honestly, I do love you" We see him say "I do love you" but "Honestly" is a VO that could have come from anywhere. All we can be certain he says in context is "I do love you" - he probably didn't say "Honestly" in that moment. Same thing with "This is really hard for me because I've known I'm in love with you for a while as well". We hear him say "This is really hard for me because" but only see him say "I've known I'm in love with you for a while as well".

2 - An easy part for them is when they take a voice over and show a scene where we hear things said. But what we hear comes from many different sources and it's easy because they don't have to match what we hear with anything that we see. VO soundbites can come from ITMs filmed at any point and sometimes they will go back after filming is done and get the lead to say stuff and they record it and then use it at any place they want to. We often hear a series of soundbites that seem to make a sentence until you hear audio differences that show how they took a word here and a phrase there to craft a sentence that was never said in the first place.

I'm not exactly sure yet how I want to tackle this but it may be to take a sentence we hear and then indicate in it where the edits are so we can see how the fragments got assembled.

I am opened to anybody trying any possible way   Not sure when i will as currently at work ( )

veg_out wrote:snip

In the past, where the contestants' conflicts intersect with the lead's determines the outcome. The lead and the F1 resolve each other's conflicts.

Just want to say I love this post and have it bookmarked to come back to - the point I bolded is too important to forget about.

veg_out wrote:Bet2Win posed a question in a recent post about the info left "in" the show. If we are able to consider those tidbits, they often construct storylines and narrative conflict.

I rewatched episode 1 to refresh myself on Ben's story. In that episode, Ben states, "To fall in love and not be loved back [on this journey], I would legitimize one of my biggest concerns: the fear of being unlovable." That's Ben's conflict this season, "Am I loved back?"

JoJo's conflict seems to be "Can I let down my guard and love again?" Last episode, she told us that she really loved her last boyfriend. She told us that with tears in her eyes showing such depth of emotion for that lost love. Can JoJo surmount that experience to love Ben? Or will something trip her up?

Lauren's conflict seems to be "Can I trust Ben with my heart?" She's told us that she protects herself. Now, with last week, Lauren may feel that she needs to prove herself to Ben to offset Leah's fabrications, which inevitably will push her out of her shell of protection. Ben also now has to overcome any concerns that could have surfaced that he's falling in love with the real Lauren.

In the past, where the contestants' conflicts intersect with the lead's determines the outcome. The lead and the F1 resolve each other's conflicts.

Regarding the bold, that has been the official theme of the season. To use just one of many past examples... Ashley H. years ago on her season was all fearful of guys leaving because she was not Emily Maynard... and Bentley milked that one to the ground. By the time Mickey bolted in Hong Kong and Constantine in Fiji and she barely looked concerned, most of us viewers were no longer buying it, but... it WAS the storyline nonetheless.

With Ben's season, we have been beaten over the head over and over again with the "Am I lovable?" hammer. Mom and Pop had that conversation in episode 1, while Sean Lowe assured him that he is the only guy so they will all stay focused on him regardless of how lovable he thinks he is. When Lace left on her own at a rose ceremony, it was because "I must love myself before I can love others".

Then Caila really pumped up Ben's storyline this last episode by saying she may break his heart. So much of what she said sounded so jumbled up and made no sense whatsoever that I suspect coaches were feeding her lines to fit their "story". Obviously she is not one of the ladies he wants (even if he did earlier call her a sex panther), but he must keep her around to please the editors. I am so sorry to be jaded by this show, but they really are concerned about THE Storyline. If there isn't one, they create one from scratch.

Although I have been speculating the possibility of the final two ladies getting switched in their pecking order and Ben making a temporary mistake he fixes, there is little doubt in my mind (like most here) that Lauren winds up as the one he chooses in the end. Even in this last promo montage, she is saying (thanks to sophienette transcribing on the other thread so I don't have to re-watch) "that uncertainty of not knowing where he is in the other relationships gets stronger and stronger." It is now a predictable that every F1 says something like this in a mid-season promo. Usually F2 or F3 are shown to care less unless they are edited as "jealous types". Shawn talked similar talk last season, as did even JP back in Ashley's season (since I referenced that one above already) when he was concerned "she may not be in love with me" (paraphrasing here).

I post this in another thread, but think it belongs here:


As a possible thought, because Ben saw what happened to Nick on Kaitlyn's season, maybe he got TPTB to agree to let him let his F2 go before the FRC. This could be one of the conditions Ben asked for before agreeing to sign on the dotted line to be TB.

If you recall, just before the time of announcing who TB was going to be, someone close to him posted here that Ben was prepared to sign on to be The Bach but only if TPTB agreed to certain things (none of which was money) and if they agreed to them, he would sign.

Lucas15 wrote:

sophienette wrote:It might be good some someone to indicate where the voices change...

Sophie that's pretty much where my head was at when I posted about transcribing what we hear in the preview (which GA graciously pointed me to your hard work transcribing it all). Of course there's a couple of common tricks that the editors use to "fabricate" a perception that's misleading:

**snipped**

I'm not exactly sure yet how I want to tackle this but it may be to take a sentence we hear and then indicate in it where the edits are so we can see how the fragments got assembled.

 

If it helps, I saw someone here, I think it was agentcurls use square brackets [ ] to indicate what is not actually seen being said.

rhondam wrote:If it helps, I saw someone here, I think it was agentcurls use square brackets [ ] to indicate what is not actually seen being said.

I'm thinking of something similar. Taking what was said in its entirety but then framing what we saw being said from what we hear being said and also indicating what are obvious edits and fragments being put into an order that probably are quite out of context.

I was reading this on Wetpaint and was wondering if this is believable? I didn't know how to bring the source over and paste it here. It keeps asking for a Title. (Newbie Blues     )


While the trailer for the rest of Season 20 makes it seem like Ben might pull a Jason Mesnick and change his final pick last minute, a new report makes it clear that’s not the case. He allegedly does choose someone, and the runner-up is devastated.

In fact, even show creator Mike Fleiss tells Us Weekly the 26-year-old hunk’s choice to utter the words “I love you” doesn’t end well, causing “considerable drama.”

“Ben definitely regretted saying ‘I love you’ to both women,” a source reveals. “He realized the inevitability of what was going to happen: needing to send one home in the end.”


And when the time does come for the Bachelor to make a decision in the Jamaica-set finale, the conversation between him and his second choice was filled with “lots of tears.”

“Ben tells her that he truly does love her. He says those weren’t just words,” the insider details. “That was the most important thing he had to do: Tell her that as much of a mistake as it had been to say ‘I love you,’ he did mean it.”

Unfortunately, that does little to soothe the “blindsided” bachelorette, who is “devastated” by the breakup. Poor thing!

http://www.wetpaint.com/bachelor-2016-finale-runner-up-1471976/

If that's true he just keeps digging a deeper hole for all three of them. Why does the F2 have to know he meant it? How does it help her? 'I love you but I still chose the other girl, whom I love more' and how is it supposed to make his F1 feel better? His 'need' to let the F2 know he loves her?! He's doing this to ease his own guilt, and it helps no one.