Bachelor In Paradise - Season 2 - Episode Discussions - #3 *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

I have sympathy for both Carly and Kirk.  Anybody who's ever been dumped by someone they were already envisioning marrying, especially when they didn't see it coming, should be able to understand Carly's reaction; she was humiliated and didn't need to hear any more reasons why Kirk didn't feel the same way.  ITA that at that point, Kirk only wanted to explain more to make himself feel better, not her.  But in typical Mars/Venus fashion, I don't think he really even understood that and thought the explanation would make Carly feel better and stop crying.  Kirk, it wouldn't have.

People fall in love at different speeds, and when both halves of the couple aren't at the same speed, problems arise.  It's only three weeks of filming (I think because the show lasts 6 weeks, all the contestants learn to speak in "Bachelor Time", so I'm never sure how long any time reference really is, ie, did Kirk start having doubts 7 days before or since the last rose ceremony?), but it's an intense 3 weeks of isolation from your real life/family/friends, where the relationships, both romantic and friendship-wise, become more emotionally intensified, so I'm not surprised that someone like Carly, who apparently hasn't had a lot of luck with men in the past, would think she's finally "hit the jackpot" with Kirk being interested in her, and only her, for the whole time, and that she would start to imagine a future with him as her husband.  IMO there is a strong parallel between that romance and the one between Jared and Ashley, in that in both cases, the woman initiated it, but Kirk went along with it, despite any doubts he had, and even started to encourage Carly to think of them as a couple, whereas Jared never did with Ashley. Not to mention they were apparently sexually intimate for a while as well.  I'm not a huge fan of Carly, but she was completely blindsided; how could your heart not break for her?  And I don't think Kirk is a bad guy at all, he just realized too late that he made a mess of the situation, and didn't know how to fix it and so made a bigger mess.  If he and Carly have come to terms with what happened now, and are "friendly-ish", I'm glad for them, they are both good people.

I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but Carly is not "super unattractive" by comparison to the rest of America.  Neither is Jaclyn, Ashley H, or some others mentioned.  Maybe they just aren't as beautiful as the norm who get cast on this show of extremely pretty people, many of whom seem to have not much else going for them besides their physical appearance.  I for one wouldn't trash anyone because of their looks or call them ugly/unattractive since I am no Miss America myself, and even the least attractive from this bunch are well above average IMO.  Rant over.

umngirl wrote:Can someone explain the 5 week thing? The show only films for 3. Does this mean they were talking for two weeks before hand?

I think Carly's reaction would have been the same if Kirk had told her sooner. I think anything short of a fairytale ending in her mind would have been devasting. And Kirk did voice some hesitations about moving too fast on their 1-on-1 date.

I was wondering about that too but I think they are operating in "bachelor time" rather than real time. I think they are told to say that it's week 5 because on tv it will be week 5 to the viewers, when really it's only 3 weeks. They do this same thing on the bachelor and bachelorette (eg- say they have been there 2 weeks when it's only days)

Was it three weeks or five weeks? The show is confusing the timeline. Although, if you're hanging out every day and 24/7 for 21 days, that's the equivalent of somewhere between 2-3 months, so it's kind of an accelerated timeline. That plus Marcus/Lacey last year I do think cast people to believe that they could be "the one" to end up in the M/L relationship.

Obviously Kirk waited too long to hit the breaks with Carly, but I think he did genuinely like her and was surprised by it... but at the same time, just wasn't ready for the marriage/kids talk after such a short amount of time. Carly, OTOH, really had it right if she didn't want to hear Kirk out, because she got it right that he wanted to talk to make himself feel better, because what could he have said to make her feel better? He was going to break up with her either way. And it seems like she really wasn't privvy to the "signals" that the audience got.

I do think that for the first time, TPTB were right that it was "the most dramatic breakup" though. I saw it coming and it still felt like a gut punch. Probably because I "got' both sides and it really felt like something that would happen IRL and not just on a silly TV show.

Well I think Kirk's a douche. I just can't stand cowardly men. He should've slowed things down way sooner, since he was having doubts just about the entire time. He also clearly wasn't after anything serious, since he started his breakup speech talking about expecting a summer camp for adults where you have a fling and that's it. Why let Carly keep thinking it was more than that? Oh right, it was the easiest thing to do and a way to extend his holiday.

I have no problems with him simply not feeling it, but he should've acted more like Jared who kept putting on the brakes with Ashley even though he still hoped his feelings might change. That way, by the time he left, Ashley took it surprisingly well, since it didn't come out of nowhere. I think Carly took the rejection surprisingly well too and didn't try to change his mind, so saying she would've reacted the same had he done it sooner is a bit presumptuous IMO. I think she took it quite well, it was just made worse by him not leaving her alone. She had every right to not want to talk to him, since she'd already got the message. I found it beyond obnoxious that he wouldn't take "no" for an answer.

I also hated how he told the other guys before he told her and was looking for their sympathy. It's clear it came out of the blue to all of them as well, so it's not like Carly was alone in her blindness. Kirk and Tanner even arranged a double date for Carly and Jade just a couple of days before. And according to Carly, Kirk was talking about how excited he was about going to Zak's wedding reception the night before the dumping. He led her on. Period.

I also find it really unfair to blame it all on Carly moving too fast, when most people thought it was adorable how Marcus proposed to Lacey after 3 weeks. The only difference is that Lacey was more into Marcus than Kirk was into Carly, though I don't think she was in love at that point either. Marcus was the more enthusiastic one and Lacey just kind of went along with it. Worked out for them in the end. But when it's the woman who's more enthusiastic, it rarely does. Doesn't mean Carly's some freak though, IMO. It's not a normal 3-week relationship when you're together 24/7.

I think Kirk should've had the "talk" when Carly was having her "talk" about their future. I don't know what was to be gained other than maybe staying a little longer, a little cowardly, imo. That's my fault with him. As for Carly, please stop saying freaking every other sentence.

Maddy wrote:
Bachelor in Paradise ‏@BachParadise  
Seriously #BachelorInParadise

Was it implied that she lost something in the fantasy suite or did she grow up from the entire BIP experience.

lexforlife wrote:

Maddy wrote:
Bachelor in Paradise ‏@BachParadise  
Seriously #BachelorInParadise

Was it implied that she lost something in the fantasy suite or did she grow up from the entire BIP experience.

IMO, if she lost it in the FS, we would still be hearing about it. Look how much it was discussed before they went, but not a word after.

mindless wrote:Well I think Kirk's a douche. I just can't stand cowardly men. He should've slowed things down way sooner, since he was having doubts just about the entire time. He also clearly wasn't after anything serious, since he started his breakup speech talking about expecting a summer camp for adults where you have a fling and that's it. Why let Carly keep thinking it was more than that? Oh right, it was the easiest thing to do and a way to extend his holiday.

I have no problems with him simply not feeling it, but he should've acted more like Jared who kept putting on the brakes with Ashley even though he still hoped his feelings might change. That way, by the time he left, Ashley took it surprisingly well, since it didn't come out of nowhere. I think Carly took the rejection surprisingly well too and didn't try to change his mind, so saying she would've reacted the same had he done it sooner is a bit presumptuous IMO. I think she took it quite well, it was just made worse by him not leaving her alone. She had every right to not want to talk to him, since she'd already got the message. I found it beyond obnoxious that he wouldn't take "no" for an answer.

I also hated how he told the other guys before he told her and was looking for their sympathy. It's clear it came out of the blue to all of them as well, so it's not like Carly was alone in her blindness. Kirk and Tanner even arranged a double date for Carly and Jade just a couple of days before. And according to Carly, Kirk was talking about how excited he was about going to Zak's wedding reception the night before the dumping. He led her on. Period.

I also find it really unfair to blame it all on Carly moving too fast, when most people thought it was adorable how Marcus proposed to Lacey after 3 weeks. The only difference is that Lacey was more into Marcus than Kirk was into Carly, though I don't think she was in love at that point either. Marcus was the more enthusiastic one and Lacey just kind of went along with it. Worked out for them in the end. But when it's the woman who's more enthusiastic, it rarely does. Doesn't mean Carly's some freak though, IMO. It's not a normal 3-week relationship when you're together 24/7.

THIS.

Watched Carly and Jade's periscope from last night some interesting things apologize if someone already posted:

- Someone asked about who the hookups were and they said only Jade/Tanner and Carly/Kirk
- Carly said that her and Kirk had sex before the FS, so the whole I am not sure I am ready in the ITMs were not "true" as he didn't have any issues that she could see
- Carly said all there was to do was drink, have sex and lie on the beach
- Carly and Kirk talked about her moving and him coming to her brother's wedding, he mentioned he was excited to do that
- Carly said that Kirk isn't a bad/horrible person but that in that situation he had bad judgment as he didn't do anything to make her sense that he was having issues with how fast they were moving
- It was unlimited free supply of booze (duh) and condoms (both Jade and Carly confirmed - -contrary to Courtney's book)

Well we all know only good things happen when you have alcohol and sex for a couple weeks.

kimberlyg wrote:Was it three weeks or five weeks?  The show is confusing the timeline.  Although, if you're hanging out every day and 24/7 for 21 days, that's the equivalent of somewhere between 2-3 months, so it's kind of an accelerated timeline.  That plus Marcus/Lacey last year I do think cast people to believe that they could be "the one" to end up in the M/L relationship.

Obviously Kirk waited too long to hit the breaks with Carly, but I think he did genuinely like her and was surprised by it...  but at the same time, just wasn't ready for the marriage/kids talk after such a short amount of time.  Carly, OTOH, really had it right if she didn't want to hear Kirk out, because she got it right that he wanted to talk to make himself feel better, because what could he have said to make her feel better?  He was going to break up with her either way.  And it seems like she really wasn't privvy to the "signals" that the audience got.  

I do think that for the first time, TPTB were right that it was "the most dramatic breakup" though.  I saw it coming and it still felt like a gut punch.  Probably because I "got' both sid

es and it really felt like something that would happen IRL and not just on a silly TV show.

I haven't seen the show yet but was it a bigger break up than Brooks and Dez? That's the biggest one I've ever seen.

sbolduc wrote:Watched Carly and Jade's periscope from last night some interesting things apologize if someone already posted:

- Someone asked about who the hookups were and they said only Jade/Tanner and Carly/Kirk
- Carly said that her and Kirk had sex before the FS, so the whole I am not sure I am ready in the ITMs were not "true" as he didn't have any issues that she could see
- Carly said all there was to do was drink, have sex and lie on the beach
- Carly and Kirk talked about her moving and him coming to her brother's wedding, he mentioned he was excited to do that
- Carly said that Kirk isn't a bad/horrible person but that in that situation he had bad judgment as he didn't do anything to make her sense that he was having issues with how fast they were moving
- It was unlimited free supply of booze (duh) and condoms (both Jade and Carly confirmed - -contrary to Courtney's book)

In fairness, Kirk said that in ITM/voice over which could have been recorded at any point in time and inserted where ever editors chose to use it. In other words, it was not necessarily said during their one to one date.