The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - Social Media - Vids - Media - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

Just glanced in a couple times today, too busy watching games to fully stay caught up, so forgive me if it has.  Maybe we'll get some new pics to sleuth!  

valerie de grandis @valsthegal 7h
Being kicked out of the pool area, bar, + restaurant at our resort for the filming of The Bachelor tonight.

ETA:

valerie de grandis @valsthegal 1h
Everything lit up at Grand Isle Resort for Bachelor filming. I feel for the lighting people. The bugs are loving it!

eversotrue wrote:The past f1's, what episodes have their first dates been? 4 or 5? We know Becca got her first 1-on-1 episode 4 and Lauren H got her first 1-on-1 episode 5.

If stats matter, somehow this is a crapshoot as far as I can see. From Brad Womack 2.0 onward, they have literally happened in epi 2-6 with the only epi getting a 2 peat is epi 3. So from what I can see, no real consistent pattern which goes to what Kasha was saying....if there was a pattern, why do the sleuthing then for the rest of the season as we'd say that so and so who had this or that date will be the winner.

Kashathediva wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:

jcrbil wrote:I hope tptb air the initial conversation Ben has with Becca.... and I hope he says, "I told you not to come" (which is what we heard he told her before the season began to film).  Her season will be about overcoming that - more than whatever drama the girls might throw at her.  I wouldn't be surprised if tptb wanted her on just BECAUSE Ben told her not to come on the season.

IMO, that "info" is just a rumour.
Things like Becca being on the show or Becca having a single date can be proven and thus can be facts.
So unless it can be proven that Ben said this to Becca it is just gossip to me and nothing more to get the clicks or get one's eye off the ball.

I am not buying into what is told just because it sounds all "oooo" or "controversial".
If anything, it sounds like part of a producers playbook especially since both "sources" were the same and from the producers/crew.

I just find it distracting to be focused on things that cannot be proven and yet b/c they're from the same "sources" they get treated like fact when they are not.
I always remember that RS' "sources" told him Shawn got dumped so "sources" need to be vetted and unless there is proof... then to me, it's just speculation/rumour that spirals out of control.

I agree. 
I think this is a prime example of a bad game of telephone and time will show there is little to no merit here.

AAL and Kasha, I believe you both hit the nail on the head and totally agree!

Not everything we learn or speculate about is going to be proven yet we still can discuss them. It's fair game IMO.

albean99 wrote:Not everything we learn or speculate about is going to be proven yet we still can discuss them. It's fair game IMO.

Good point. Most gossip is never truly proven. We never got proof for Nick/Kaitlyn's pre-filming "FT-ing until 4 am and sexting", Becca/Jared's flirting and planned meeting, Andi's issues with Josh's family, Emily's sexting scandal, Ben's cheating, Graham leaving b/c he had a girlfriend back home, etc. It's really hard to prove things, unless someone actually admits to it. It's also VERY hard to prove that a conversation didn't happen. Even if Ben was asked to pick a returnee and (reluctantly) chose Amber and Becca, that doesn't mean he also didn't talk to Becca about the difficulties of coming back.

My personal take is that I believe it happened. Partly b/c there are already multiple tabloid reports saying Ben is hating and completely exhausted with the drama. I can totally imagine him wanting to avoid that and talking to Becca about that in vague terms. In addition, RS also knew about Jared (which I believe has been confirmed by sources here), so I think he has a good Becca source.

(JMO, as always)

IMO though, thinking Becca is the one causing the drama and being the pain in the butt which of course has been alluded to in many tabloids too could be completely stretching things as well.

I just think that since she's been there before, she will likely take the high road as was her edit in CS's season and seemingly in real life too.

albean99 wrote:Not everything we learn or speculate about is going to be proven yet we still can discuss them. It's fair game IMO.

The point is to preface things that are not fact with IMO or JMO.
When that is not done then things can be seen as fact when they are not and that is what leads to confusion.

^^ Exactly. 
It becomes difficult to defend other POV's that differ when you are trying to drown out rumor vs vetted sourced fact(ok very strong indication it is fact) and trying to not jeopardize how you came across that true fact. 
I surrender! 
All I will avidly say is this one reason, I choose carefully what I do and don't share.

At least in Becca's case, she is starting the season at the M&G along with the rest of the ladies, so unlike Nick, she won't have that hurdle to overcome. But if the story is true, and the others are upset with her, we may see another side to Becca. Yes, she was drama-free on Chris' season, but she was also not at the center of the storm. How she reacts to being targeted and disparaged (if that's what happens) will be interesting, and particularly how it is edited. She could be viewed as a victim OR a villain, depending on that.

AllAboutLove wrote:

albean99 wrote:Not everything we learn or speculate about is going to be proven yet we still can discuss them. It's fair game IMO.

The point is to preface things that are not fact with IMO or JMO.
When that is not done then things can be seen as fact when they are not and that is what leads to confusion.

Likewise, stating that (quoting) "...If anything, it sounds like part of a producers playbook especially since both "sources" were the same and from the producers/crew." the bolded is also not "fact". IMO it is all information that we as individuals should consider in our process of sorting the information, weighing it's value, and forming our opinions of it's validity.

I agree with CP. Many things can not be factually verified, including many of the contestants we currently discuss. I personally use my critical thinking and logic to determine my point of view regardless of the presence of visual or audio evidence to support or dismiss information which can not be proved.

Source: Post up-page in this thread.

Where this "info" came from was never in dispute (perhaps now it is?) what was in dispute was whether this info was correct. RJ stated it was from production/crew when asked by myself and thus because RS had the exact same information it was thus corroborated that the "sources" were the same.

The point is that I use my critical thinking, and just plain common sense for myself, to realize that if I had a friend on a tv show I would never corroborate any story that made my friend look bad or painted her in a negative light. I certainly don't consider that to be something a "friend" would do to make it out to be that the lead never wanted her at all.

It's why I thought the whole premise was ridiculous in the first place. No friend I know would ever even imply that her friend would never be F1 even if that is what they were told. What's the benefit to tell, on a forum, that my friend is not going to be F1 or to corroborate a "story" that she was not wanted by Ben? Such nonsense in my mind and certainly no friend thing to me.

IMO, I think it is just easy to believe the stuff about Ben saying he didn't want Becca because of a recent returnee that had the opposite happen (there was clear evidence that K and N were flirting and communicating - there's no such evidence for B & B). And Becca being a returnee seems to be the bigger issue here than what Ben is or isn't actually doing. No one knows for fact if he wanted or didn't want her on the show. She's still there. It can be said to be TPTB or whatever but time will tell whether that is the case.

I just am not going to filter my sleuthing based on "info" about Becca. Once I filter it through that lens then I, for myself, will take my eye off the ball and "never see them together" when in reality, I have no idea yet if Ben does or doesn't want Becca.

JMHO

ironcat wrote:At least in Becca's case, she is starting the season at the M&G along with the rest of the ladies, so unlike Nick, she won't have that hurdle to overcome.  But if the story is true, and the others are upset with her, we may see another side to Becca.  Yes, she was drama-free on Chris' season, but she was also not at the center of the storm.  How she reacts to being targeted and disparaged (if that's what happens) will be interesting, and particularly how it is edited.  She could be viewed as a victim OR a villain, depending on that.

One of the things that struck me was what Becca herself wrote when she came on here to defend herself before she went back on the show:

I am sorry that I am louder and more outgoing and a little more ridiculous and obnoxious than I was portrayed on the show.

That kind of stuck in my head. To me she didn't necessarily sound too happy about her portrayal on the show. We know we did hear SM complaints from her family...for what I still don't get. Anyway, I'm thinking that she may be trying to prove to all that she is more outgoing, more ridiculous and more obnoxious during her stint this time. Add that to the fact that she is returning and may be getting some extra perks like getting to call family, I can see how that would tick off the other, new ladies and cause some drama.