The Bachelorette 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - FRC - ATFR- July 27th *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

Lucas15 wrote:

mindless wrote:Exactly, and it's evil! I guess he didn't take into account how much TPTB would up their game to screw him over again. Or he thought Kaitlyn wouldn't let it happen.

It is evil. If he thought Kaitlyn wouldn't do it to him than I think he still has some things to learn about how the show works. But why the show seems to have set out from almost the beginning to screw him over again may remain one of the mysteries of this season to me. I don't know why they would do that, only that IMO it really seems they did and it was intentional.

But they were friends! They talked a lot before filming, and if he was very supportive of her during the 2 leads thing, why wouldn't you think your friend would treat you with the same kind of kindness? Maybe Nick was just too naive?

sdmom wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

mindless wrote:Exactly, and it's evil! I guess he didn't take into account how much TPTB would up their game to screw him over again. Or he thought Kaitlyn wouldn't let it happen.

It is evil. If he thought Kaitlyn wouldn't do it to him than I think he still has some things to learn about how the show works. But why the show seems to have set out from almost the beginning to screw him over again may remain one of the mysteries of this season to me. I don't know why they would do that, only that IMO it really seems they did and it was intentional.

But they were friends! They talked a lot before filming, and if he was very supportive of her during the 2 leads thing, why wouldn't you think your friend would treat you with the same kind of kindness? Maybe Nick was just too naive?

IMO, Kaitlyn is a master manipulator: She was able to get all of America to basically cast her as TBette, then get both guys to do what she wanted, and still she is seen as bullied and a victim.

soccermom333 wrote:^^^ Because she was afraid he would leave.  She said so herself.  ;)

If she was that afraid of Shawn leaving, then respect that Shawn hates, hates, hates Nick. Don't keep him around. Or if TPTB make you keep him around, stop draping yourself over him at HTD and LCD. I actually found her more withdrawn from him at FD. She was all over him after his HTD at the hotel and being on his bed at LCD doesn't say I am not into you.

If she really cared for Shawn that much and his feelings, then she should have backed off Nick. And sorry, but nothing will change my opinion on this. I respect that not everyone will share my opinion. But to me Kaitlyn was very disrespectful to both her F2 and she is constantly talking out of both sides of her mouth as the old saying goes. JMO.

AllAboutLove wrote:IMO, Kaitlyn is a master manipulator: She was able to get all of America to basically cast her as TBette, then get both guys to do what she wanted, and still she is seen as bullied and a victim. 

 I don't agree with the cyber bullying and death threats, but I have seen nothing to indicate that she is okay with even the slightest bit of criticism. I have seen her get defensive about tweets that were nowhere near as harmful as those that were read at MTA. She thinks she should should get away unscathed because of how awesome and likable she is. Even at the MTA when some of the guys had valid questions, she turns it around on them, "didn't you vote for Britt!" or just looks straight up pissed off that Tanner would dare question her decision to only focus on Shawn when there were 8 other guys there. She couldn't answer not one question honestly. It's all about how hard is to date 25 men. Kaitlyn, there have been 10 bachelorettes before you and none of them have f*cked up as badly. She is completely FOS. JMO.

BlackHalo wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:IMO, Kaitlyn is a master manipulator: She was able to get all of America to basically cast her as TBette, then get both guys to do what she wanted, and still she is seen as bullied and a victim. 

 I don't agree with the cyber bullying and death threats, but I have seen nothing to indicate that she is okay with even the slightest bit of criticism. I have seen her get defensive about tweets that were nowhere near as harmful as those that were read at MTA. She thinks she should should get away unscathed because of how awesome and likable she is. Even at the MTA when some of the guys had valid questions, she turns it around on them, "didn't you vote for Britt!" or just looks straight up pissed off that Tanner would dare question her decision to only focus on Shawn when there were 8 other guys there. She couldn't answer not one question honestly. It's all about how hard is to date 25 men. Kaitlyn, there have been 10 bachelorettes before you and none of them have f*cked up as badly. She is completely FOS. JMO.

This is exactly why I think she is immature and self-absorbed MEkaitlyn (more subtle than MEandi but, imo, this makes her worse since she pretends she isn't this way.) I even find her "forgiveness" attitude to be pious, as if she is letting everyone know how lucky they are are b/c she has bestowed her forgiveness on people she doesn't even care about. Whoop de doo. I think she just loves people pandering to her every whim and THEY are wrong.

She is all "It's sooo hard being me, but I love it!". :halo:   She tells her F1 to trust her and then goes and has sex with Nick as soon as she can. Then still more trust me, trust me. Lucky for her she has the excuse of being the Bette, but I think Shawn will wake up one day when a rock falls in his empty box and he will realize all along he had her pegged: "Actions not match words". jmo

This is the way I see it. She told Shawn he was the one, but she had a show to do and lots of candy to pick from. Until she made her final choice, anything she chose to do, she did. Her "mistake" was telling Shawn he was the one before she sampled the rest of the goods. What remains to be seen is whether she chose the decadent Shawn or the sweet and salty Nick. The end.

But didn't K tell Shawn it was a mistake to have told him that - put much more strain on the relationship because he couldn't accept that she was making out and giving early roses to others if she had already decided that it was Shawn.  She admits her mistake and suggests that they back off a little so that it would be easier.  What else could she do - she had to continue with the show and create suspense didn't she?  Then along comes Nick and other issues present themselves.  I don't know whether that first one on one with Nick was a figment of my imagination - but K and N looked pretty happy together - and so much so that they couldn't resist having sex.  K had to make sure of her feelings - in her own way.  Was that date a turning point  and Shawn got so upset that his emotions got the best of him?  I don't know as I don't know the real Shawn - but I wasn't impressed with his behavior at all.  And I found it interesting that K continued to want to have a physical relationship with Nick - and apparently not with Shawn.  That was the implication - maybe a lot was left out - but all the way through it seemed there was a lot of physical closeness with Nick.  More lying down arrangements rather than couch sitting while having heavy gloomy discussions. It seemed that Shawn was surviving on the words and Nick was surviving on the physical closeness. Do actions speak louder than words ?  Either way - there was a show to produce and it is the nature of this show to lead people on.  I don't really want either Shawn or Nick to have to propose - it is sad - gut wrenching - but it's the nature of the beast.  The more tears, shock, anger displayed the better - for the producers.

CHO..great post!

sdmom wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

mindless wrote:Exactly, and it's evil! I guess he didn't take into account how much TPTB would up their game to screw him over again. Or he thought Kaitlyn wouldn't let it happen.

If he thought Kaitlyn wouldn't do it to him than I think he still has some things to learn about how the show works.

But they were friends! They talked a lot before filming, and if he was very supportive of her during the 2 leads thing, why wouldn't you think your friend would treat you with the same kind of kindness? Maybe Nick was just too naive?

I suspect that Nick might well have thought that they were friends and that Kaitlyn would not blindside him because of that, but there-in lies the source of his naivety. He could have made the assumption that Kaitlyn could do everything she wanted to do and not do anything the producers wanted her to do and that, IMO, is simply not the case with this show. Kaitlyn has one choice she can make and stick to her guns on (maybe - the producers have manipulated a lead into making a disastrous choice in the past so they are always capable of doing that again - or trying to do it again) and that's who is F1. Everything else is determined by the show for their reasons - whatever they may be. One objective for the producers is to get a suitable good finish for those they are considering for the next lead. Another is to get a dramatic ending with a heartbroken F2 and a surprised F1.

There have been some reports that Kaitlyn wanted a different finishing order - that she wanted Ben H as F2 and Nick as F3. I don't know if this is true or not, but I do know that in my mind it's completely possible because I have heard of at least one similar situation and the producers got their way on that one - against what the lead wanted to do.

IMO to get the F1 they want a lead may do just about anything else they have to do and given the state of exhaustion (physically and emotionally) they are in at the end - it's not too difficult to get them to play along. Especially because they really don't know what they are really doing because of lies they are told.
JMHO

nutty1 wrote:

albean99 wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:

I guess with all K has done I am not buying that it is TPTB fault 100%.
If it is, then Shawn being F1 is also TPTB fault/credit/plan 100%.
So if it works out it's because the lead and F1 like who they have been set-up with.
With this reasoning, everyone would be better of as actors with official and every once in a blue moon said lead and F1 actually fall in love while on set.

I don't see a correlation. We know there's a storyboard and some things the lead must do. She clearly fell for Shawn early on so they had to do something or it would have been game over pretty early. I think Kaitlyn had strong feelings for Nick, maybe even a little bit in love with him. That's why I don't think she'd bring him to the f2 knowing he's not the one. Ben H would have been perfect since he really wasn't in love with her but that didn't fit the rivalry they were promoting. That's all I'm saying and it's JMO.

I am confused, Bean. re: the bolded, are you talking about Nick??

Yes, I probably should have said by choice. I know some people think the worst of Kaitlyn but I don't believe she wanted to hurt Nick in the end. No lead wants to hurt their f2 imo. Kaitlyn made a lot of mistakes and keeping Nick in NYC was one if she really thought Shawn was the one. Sleeping with him was another imo. I do think she gave him a real chance but her feelings for Shawn were stronger.

It doesn't matter whether we like the lead or not. There are some things that happen every season and some of the choices of who's f2 and 3 don't seem to be the leads to make. Sometimes there's a future lead they want to get to a certain spot instead of the person they'd rather have there. Other than Matt who didn't seem to care, I don't believe the f1 was ever picked for them though.

stuckinsc wrote:

soccermom333 wrote:^^^ Because she was afraid he would leave.  She said so herself.  ;)

If she was that afraid of Shawn leaving, then respect that Shawn hates, hates, hates Nick.  Don't keep him around.  Or if TPTB make you keep him around, stop draping yourself over him at HTD and LCD.  I actually found her more withdrawn from him at FD.  She was all over him after his HTD at the hotel and being on his bed at LCD doesn't say I am not into you.

If she really cared for Shawn that much and his feelings, then she should have backed off Nick.  And sorry, but nothing will change my opinion on this. I respect that not everyone will share my opinion.  But to me Kaitlyn was very disrespectful to both her F2 and she is constantly talking out of both sides of her mouth as the old saying goes. JMO.

You are right on. She does talk out of both sides of her mouth. As I say a S***K is a s**** and will always be one hope she truly settle down because the hot head she has wont put S**** for a wife.

AllAboutLove wrote:I do believe TPTB manipulate but I don't believe everything F2 and down is solely TPTB and then F1 is solely the lead. It more often than not seems to be the case that it is seen this way and viewed from this lens, especially given an obvious edit. However, there have been enough F1s that never lasted post-show to show that TPTB may have been responsible for the F1 too. After all, there are much more couples broken up than together from this franchise. It also is interesting how those leads who didn't play by TPTB rules (JPG, Brad 1.0) got really bad edits at the time. I see Kaitlyn being one of those. jmho

It's possible that the reason the couples break up is the attraction is based on superficial reasons. The dates are designed to see which women are sexier and which guys are more macho.