Bachelor Australia - Season 3 - Sam Wood - (Male) - Episode Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

The hometown dates should be interesting.

I think Heather seemed to be worried about htd?> anyone know what that is about?

stillhoping wrote:The hometown dates should be interesting.

I think Heather seemed to be worried about htd?> anyone know what that is about?

In the preview it seems to be her step dad at the end giving Sam the major grilling. Maybe he and her mother didn't approve of her going on the show?

My view after reading the previous page is ... that yes, my opinion of Sam has changed once I found out he let Heather go as F4.

I don't "judge" him negatively as a person as whole ... he can still be an awesome guy to hang out with or a great boyfriend to the woman he chose ... but I do believe he is a wrong match for Heather, now, knowing more facts and coming to a conclusion based on 2 possible outcomes.

And because of the latter, I also think it's nothing wrong or unfair to him, if by the end I claim that his behavior and attitude towards Heather was not the best one, most considerate and fair to her ... depending on 1 particular choice - if he chose Snezana (which I do believe he did).
Because that would mean that Heather never stood a chance and he played her hopes up, fully aware and intentionally. Yes, it is a game she signed on to, but it doesn't mean he has no role in it. His attitude at the end, the way he will be shown to handle her elimination and if we'll ever see him say "sorry" ... would be more telling of him (as it always is with these leads).

In case he chose Lana, there's another factor of Sam's character to consider, but since he would practically let Heather go soon after Lana's arrival it would "lesson" my critical stance on how he handled their relationship. (so my opinion would differ again)

Would my opinion of him be different if he chose Heather? - of course - but that would also mean/require that he is a different person, a person who actually is attracted to a woman like Heather - which he clearly isn't.

My distaste for this show has nothing to do with the players in this game, not the ones who appear on a screen (i do watch only b/c of the cast, if they are interesting), but more with the awareness of the game behind the scenes ... and what tricks TPTB use to "fool" us - the viewers ... and "use" the cast for TPTB's gain.

I will have a lot of respect for Sam regardless of who he chooses simply because he went wih his choice. Will it be a right choice, i dont know since i am not God or Sam. He is a grown man and free to make his own good or bad choices.
As per misdirecting in the medis, Heather has done same( partner and friend?, s
sam had warned her about the kiss before it played?) Heather could have worded her answers differently imho. She is the actress who seemed to have enjoyed every minute post show. f1 or not.
Lana has also been giving the vibes she won and happily so in her media round.
Snez has been giving the vibes she didnt win happily in her media so all 3 girls have been doing a bit of misdirecting.
Sam watching the show with the triple m guys had to promote the radio show and why not if it was the pirpose for being there. I didnt see anything wrong in the way he reacted watching it. If we are to love how he reacted how he reacted to Heather's name in one interview why cant we also love how he reacted to Lana's? Just wondering.
I can understand loving Sam because he chose my favourite but i am also willing to cut him some slack if my only reason for not loving Sam is because he didnt choose my fav. But thats just me.
He has tomdo media rounds and be mindful not give anything away hence why he is all over the place in his compliments of the girls.
jmho.

Going with his heart, making his own choice for himself is commendable of his character, but the way he deals with other relationships, the way he treats the women once he lets them go and how he eliminates them ... that's something that will still define the level of respect (mine towards him) ... which doesn't define whether he is a respectful guy or not.

happygolucky wrote:My view after reading the previous page is ... that yes, my opinion of Sam has changed once I found out he let Heather go as F4.

I don't "judge" him negatively as a person as whole ... he can still be an awesome guy to hang out with or a great boyfriend to the woman he chose ... but I do believe he is a wrong match for Heather, now, knowing more facts and coming to a conclusion based on 2 possible outcomes.

And because of the latter, I also think it's nothing wrong or unfair to him, if by the end I claim that his behavior and attitude towards Heather was not the best one, most considerate and fair to her ... depending on 1 particular choice - if he chose Snezana (which I do believe he did).
Because that would mean that Heather never stood a chance and he played her hopes up, fully aware and intentionally. Yes, it is a game she signed on to, but it doesn't mean he has no role in it. His attitude at the end, the way he will be shown to handle her elimination and if we'll ever see him say "sorry" ... would be more telling of him (as it always is with these leads).

In case he chose Lana, there's another factor of Sam's character to consider, but since he would practically let Heather go soon after Lana's arrival it would "lesson" my critical stance on how he handled their relationship. (so my opinion would differ again)

Would my opinion of him be different if he chose Heather? - of course - but that would also mean/require that he is a different person, a person who actually is attracted to a woman like Heather - which he clearly isn't.

My distaste for this show has nothing to do with the players in this game, not the ones who appear on a screen (i do watch only b/c of the cast, if they are interesting), but more with the awareness of the game behind the scenes ... and what tricks TPTB use to "fool" us - the viewers ... and "use" the cast for TPTB's gain.[/b]

The bolded part of the argument is the bit I really can't get my head around.

I don't see why he'd be judged if he's not as attracted to a particular girl. I think Heather is amazing but we can't help who we're attracted to or who we're not...and FTR I think he clearly is attracted to her because she's still there. So really the argument is that he may just be more attracted to some of the other girls left...and again I don't see why that is an indication of his character? Snez and Sarah are both great women as well (I don't know much about Lana but she sounds like she has a lot to offer too) so I don't know why he should be judged if he's more attracted to them. Different strokes for different folks and all that. He clearly admires and loves Heather as a person if nothing else. He thinks that she's infectious and mesmerising and at a level above him. He can clearly recognise she's pretty special...but sometimes attraction can be a funny thing.

As for playing her hopes up, well unfortunately that's the show. It sucks for her but her hopes haven't been played up any more than Sarah's (who got reassured with 3 dates) or Snez who left a child behind to be on the show. Not all of them can win and it's just a simple fact of the show that girls are going to get led on and heart broken.

I agree with you completely about the producers and editing team being jerks...but that's not Sam's fault (although I suspect he's going to cop the brunt of the backlash come Thursday when the blindsided general fanbase are hit with Heather's departure).

I posted my reservations about Sam long before I posted that I didn't believe Heather was F1 (no matter my favorite my posts always will be based on what can be supported by evidence). I do this for all leads. My posts are evidence of such (Art included with my multiple skeptical posts about him during his season and post-show).

At the end of the day, Sam is 35 years old and imo has been acting like a kid in the candy story with his own IG pics that he himself has uploaded on his personal account with him grinning away and captioning such with "recapping lasts night's episode with the boys".

That is weird, imo to me that is strange. I have never seen a lead do this and say he enjoys watching himself on TV. He just likes the attention, imo. Doesn't mean he is a bad person, but I don't look at him as one of the best leads that this franchise has seen. I don't see him in need of defense nor do I see him needing to be tarred. I just don't think he is so amazing just because he is the lead of the show. But then, I do have a high bar/standard for great leads and this definitely plays a role in my assessment of them.

Until the show is over and I am aware of who Sam chose and what his F1 says about Sam post-show will I only make my main assessment.
If anything, he can only surprise me for the better. :Nod:

lozzatron wrote:

happygolucky wrote:Would my opinion of him be different if he chose Heather? - of course - but that would also mean/require that he is a different person, a person who actually is attracted to a woman like Heather - which he clearly isn't.

The bolded part of the argument is the bit I really can't get my head around.

I don't see why he'd be judged if he's not as attracted to a particular girl.

My statement of him being a different person doesn't shed a negative light on him ... so I didn't state that I judge him poorly as a person or his character ...

what my words say ... is that if I had one picture/image of him ... thinking that he likes and is falling for Heather ... the fact that he wasn't attracted to Heather and didn't fall for her means - it's a logical deduction - he isn't a person I thought he was, so of course the opinion changes.

The fact that he wasn't attracted to Heather means that he is looking and is attracted to other kind of personality ... which means that my initial opinion of his personality was incorrect, when I thought they are a good match.

This doesn't make him a bad/wrong person ... just wrong for Heather ... and her wrong for him ... and by that I haven't judged him, just stating the facts ... since if he would be the right guy for her that would require for him to actually be attracted to her - since it is all about love and not friendship.

*by the attraction I do actually mean -sexual chemistry/romantic feelings ... which NO, i don't think he felt that for Heather.

Okay, so I just checked and this was the order for Tim's HTDs:
1. Anna (F1)
2. Rochelle (F2)
3. Danielle (F4)
4. Ali (F3)

Blake's order of HTDs:
1. Louise (F3 but Mesnick)
2. Sam (F1)
3. Lisa (F2)
4. Jess (F4)

So it doesn't seem like much of an order to look for... other than F1 and F2's HTDs don't seem to be shown last.

happygolucky wrote:

lozzatron wrote:

happygolucky wrote:Would my opinion of him be different if he chose Heather? - of course - but that would also mean/require that he is a different person, a person who actually is attracted to a woman like Heather - which he clearly isn't.

The bolded part of the argument is the bit I really can't get my head around.

I don't see why he'd be judged if he's not as attracted to a particular girl.

My statement of him being a different person doesn't shed a negative light on him ... so I didn't state that I judge him poorly as a person or his character ...

what my words say ... is that if I had one picture/image of him ... thinking that he likes and is falling for Heather ... the fact that he wasn't attracted to Heather and didn't fall for her means - it's a logical deduction - he isn't a person I thought he was, so of course the opinion changes.

The fact that he wasn't attracted to Heather means that he is looking and is attracted to other kind of personality ... which means that my initial opinion of his personality was incorrect, when I thought they are a good match.

This doesn't make him a bad/wrong person ... just wrong for Heather ... and her wrong for him ... and by that I haven't judged him, just stating the facts ... since if he would be the right guy for her that would require for him to actually be attracted to her - since it is all about love and not friendship.

Oh I see what you meant now.

Thanks for clarifying

I read it as your opinion of Sam changing for the negative when you realised he wasn't as attracted to Heather as you first thought...and that's the part that had me scratching my head. I understand where you're coming from now though.

I'm with you, HGL! I have the same thoughts. No one is a bad person b/c of who they choose or don't choose. Neither are they a good person b/c of who they choose or don't choose.

Now about these upcoming episodes...

It seems that Sam is shown in his outfit for Heather's HTD and there seems to be emphasis on this. The DM article also mentions Sam seeing her as a mate. So perhaps that is what is talked about on the HTD? I would think if this is the dramatic part of the episode and Heather is F4 that her HTD will be shown last?

Also interesting to note about that HTD preview is that Sam is seen kissing Lana so that would be their first kiss?

lozzatron wrote:I read it as your opinion of Sam changing for the negative when you realised he wasn't as attracted to Heather as you first thought...and that's the part that had me scratching my head. I understand where you're coming from now though.

To clarify ... I don't think negatively of Sam in regards to his life, his character in general ... I may have doubts now what is real and what's the "edit" and what I'm just "fed" to believe ... so right now, I don't have a whole picture of who Sam might be ... because I still don't know what he really wants or likes ... and only with the ending, with his final choice will I have a clearer picture (probably never a complete one, since I won't meet him in person) ... so my opinion of Sam's character is still in the limbo.

But since one thing I saw from the start ... and will soon see it ending ... and that's his relationship with Heather ... I can start to make my own conclusion regarding his conduct of it.

The fact that it was - from his side - always just a friendship (so far the edit shows that) ... even though I was hoping and believing that the edit is just trying to fool us and would change around this time and turn out to be romantic - which apparently it won't, 'coz it ends with a "friend-zoned" note ... it means that he was tagging her along in the game ... do I blame him? - no, do I fault him? - yes.
Because he always said that he is looking for the romantic connection and he let the girls go early for that same reason - still he never sent Heather home, despite not feeling it (and call me cynic, but I really don't buy that he felt a sexual attraction for her at this point anymore)
At the same time ... it's a part of this game ... so I'm not turning that against him for the rest of his life ... but that's why I say that his attitude at the end will define my opinion of him. How he handles the break-up, how he behaves with Heather ... also given the circumstances ... I also watch his media-rounds now and how he handles the "Heather talk" in the press ... how he behaves when she's mentioned, what he says about her ... all of this is giving me a better understanding of who he is ... and therefore I will make my call what to think of him.