Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #5

AllAboutLove wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:I agree with you as well Alanna, I am glad Kaitlyn found her happy and I don't think she and Nick would have been each other's happy. Like Nick told the guys he was lucky Andi chose Josh, I think in time he will see that he is lucky that Kaitlyn chose Shawn. When it is the right woman for Nick she will know and he won't be second choice

By Nick's own words, I think he may already know this, especially the second time around.
He said that no matter how magical connection he feels with Kaitlyn he doesn't want to be with a girl who thinks there is a better fit for her.
And I would think most people wouldn't want to be with someone who preferred someone else over them.

Well K allowing N to propose if she intends to turn him down is cruel punishment that should help him get over her fast. He was well aware it was between him and Shawn and that he might not be her guy in the end but should have no regrets since he gave it his best shot. I think it is ironic that Nick told Kaitlyn this last episode he didn't want it " to be this exhausting thing" but that is exactly what she ends up going through with Shawn's drama & she chooses him. Shaking my head.....

I would love to see Nick as the next bachelor. He's such a polarizing character...I'd love to see what kind of a woman HE would choose for himself.

leselihau wrote:I would love to see Nick as the next bachelor.  He's such a polarizing character...I'd love to see what kind of a woman HE would choose for himself.  

I hope he runs far away from anything to do with this show.

As for what type of woman he would choose? I guess it would be more interesting for me to see what kinds of woman would choose him.

**Moved to Shawn's thread**

I have a few thoughts about why Kaitlyn might have allowed Nick to propose at the FRC.  Kaitlyn and Nick talked about their prior show experiences over text/phone prior to this season.  Likely Nick shared that he was completely surprised by the fact that last season A let him go the morning of the FRC and he did not really get complete closure that day. He did not get to tell A how he was feeling, which lead him to write the infamous letter and try to talk with her prior to the ATFR.  He wanted to talk with her to say his piece and get closure.  

Maybe it wasn't that Kaitlyn took Nick to the FRC to propose, but rather to allow him to speak his heart and get it all off his chest.  That way, when she turned him down he would be able to have closure going home.  He wouldn't have to wait until the ATFR wondering what went wrong and wishing that he would have gotten to say what was on his heart that last day.  It might have actually been kinder to Nick to let him propose.  Then he knows that he did risk it all, gave her everything and it was still not ment to be.  He can go home a happy man because he did what he came to do.

OP ... I have no idea why he could get the closure only after proposing? Can't he get closure even if is let go before FRC? also Why is it called Final Rose Ceremony if the lead doesn't tell the contestant whether they get the rose or not first - by giving it - and then the proposal could take place?

Anyway ... those are few questions ... but honestly, I really don't know why would Kaitlyn choose to wait for Nick to propose first to only tell him "you're not the one, sorry, the other guy stole my heart". And I'm not here trying to fault Kait ... since I don't know what's the deal behind it all.
I'm highly suspicious of Nick too, after all he had his chance off camera, FS again, to talk to her and get down to the truth ... Did he intentionally overlooked her "evasive" answers or did he felt it in his gut what's about to happen? Falling from the blue skies won't cut it for me.

AllAboutLove wrote:IA and based on her decision, Kaitlyn supports this theory. She is a strong woman but wants an alpha with whom she can be beta and she chose one. Nick is more of an equal partner where neither partner is beta or alpha but just a mutual partnership. jmo

IMO this is a very apt observation. It brings to mind something I read a while back and sadly lost the link to but in the article they said something like:

A woman might say she wants a sensitive man but when presented with the option will pick someone that is more a strong / alpha male type.

I think Kaitlyn was attracted more to an alpha and so that's who she chose.

TopShelf wrote:So do you all think that this is staged or of no consequence?

IMO that sort of old news (or new olds) - those pictures were taken while Shawn was with Cupcake the weekend after the snapchat video became public when they sent him to Nashville to appear to have been somewhere else. There are several other pictures that make it more seem that he was trying to get away from a posse of girls fanning on him rather that flirting with them.

happygolucky wrote:OP ... I have no idea why he could get the closure only after proposing? Can't he get closure even if is let go before FRC? also Why is it called Final Rose Ceremony if the lead doesn't tell the contestant whether they get the rose or not first - by giving it - and then the proposal could take place?

Anyway ... those are few questions ... but honestly, I really don't know why would Kaitlyn choose to wait for Nick to propose first to only tell him "you're not the one, sorry, the other guy stole my heart". And I'm not here trying to fault Kait ... since I don't know what's the deal behind it all.
I'm highly suspicious of Nick too, after all he had his chance off camera, FS again, to talk to her and get down to the truth ... Did he intentionally overlooked her "evasive" answers or did he felt it in his gut what's about to happen? Falling from the blue skies won't cut it for me.

yes, Yes, YES.  
I mean we'll have to see how it all plays out, but if he proposes and she says no, this would be the BIG question for me!!
Did he ask?  Did she answer?

OnePromise wrote:I have a few thoughts about why Kaitlyn might have allowed Nick to propose at the FRC.  Kaitlyn and Nick talked about their prior show experiences over text/phone prior to this season.  Likely Nick shared that he was completely surprised by the fact that last season A let him go the morning of the FRC and he did not really get complete closure that day. He did not get to tell A how he was feeling, which lead him to write the infamous letter and try to talk with her prior to the ATFR.  He wanted to talk with her to say his piece and get closure.  

Maybe it wasn't that Kaitlyn took Nick to the FRC to propose, but rather to allow him to speak his heart and get it all off his chest.  That way, when she turned him down he would be able to have closure going home.  He wouldn't have to wait until the ATFR wondering what went wrong and wishing that he would have gotten to say what was on his heart that last day.  It might have actually been kinder to Nick to let him propose.  Then he knows that he did risk it all, gave her everything and it was still not ment to be.  He can go home a happy man because he did what he came to do.

Respectfully, I have to disagree OP.
K&N could discuss and talk about all the issues between them to let Nick get it all off his chest. And the season previews of her in Utah on the balcony saying this is going to be the hardest conversation ever, suggest that this is what happens... spoilers be damned.
But if K let Nick pick out a ring and get down on one knee after what they each went through in their prior seasons.... knowing she was going to say no...

OnePromise wrote:I have a few thoughts about why Kaitlyn might have allowed Nick to propose at the FRC.  Kaitlyn and Nick talked about their prior show experiences over text/phone prior to this season.  Likely Nick shared that he was completely surprised by the fact that last season A let him go the morning of the FRC and he did not really get complete closure that day. He did not get to tell A how he was feeling, which lead him to write the infamous letter and try to talk with her prior to the ATFR.  He wanted to talk with her to say his piece and get closure.  

Maybe it wasn't that Kaitlyn took Nick to the FRC to propose, but rather to allow him to speak his heart and get it all off his chest.  That way, when she turned him down he would be able to have closure going home.  He wouldn't have to wait until the ATFR wondering what went wrong and wishing that he would have gotten to say what was on his heart that last day.  It might have actually been kinder to Nick to let him propose.  Then he knows that he did risk it all, gave her everything and it was still not ment to be.  He can go home a happy man because he did what he came to do.

Plausible. Another consideration is the findings of Stanley Milgram's experiment on obedience - docnash14 posted this earlier this season. If you missed that post and subsequent discussion this might be an interesting if chilling read. The conclusion of that experiment was the discovery that 65% of the participants would inflict what they believed to be severe pain on someone else simply because an authority figure told them to. If they balked at administering painful shocks (or so they believed), the instructions they were given were:

   Please continue.
   The experiment requires that you continue.
   It is absolutely essential that you continue.
   You have no other choice, you must go on.

So it's possible that Kaitlyn was simply told by the producers she had to do it and if she is like 65% of the people she very well might have done it for no other reason than that.

Lucas15 wrote:

OnePromise wrote:I have a few thoughts about why Kaitlyn might have allowed Nick to propose at the FRC.  Kaitlyn and Nick talked about their prior show experiences over text/phone prior to this season.  Likely Nick shared that he was completely surprised by the fact that last season A let him go the morning of the FRC and he did not really get complete closure that day. He did not get to tell A how he was feeling, which lead him to write the infamous letter and try to talk with her prior to the ATFR.  He wanted to talk with her to say his piece and get closure.  

Maybe it wasn't that Kaitlyn took Nick to the FRC to propose, but rather to allow him to speak his heart and get it all off his chest.  That way, when she turned him down he would be able to have closure going home.  He wouldn't have to wait until the ATFR wondering what went wrong and wishing that he would have gotten to say what was on his heart that last day.  It might have actually been kinder to Nick to let him propose.  Then he knows that he did risk it all, gave her everything and it was still not ment to be.  He can go home a happy man because he did what he came to do.

Plausible. Another consideration is the findings of Stanley Milgram's experiment on obedience - docnash14 posted this earlier this season. If you missed that post and subsequent discussion this might be an interesting if chilling read. The conclusion of that experiment was the discovery that 65% of the participants would inflict what they believed to be severe pain on someone else simply because an authority figure told them to. If they balked at administering painful shocks (or so they believed), the instructions they were given were:

   Please continue.
   The experiment requires that you continue.
   It is absolutely essential that you continue.
   You have no other choice, you must go on.

So it's possible that Kaitlyn was simply told by the producers she had to do it and if she is like 65% of the people she very well might have done it for no other reason than that.

That or she got paid extra to bring him to his knees.

Or maybe the proposal was part of an agreement he made with TPTB to come back on the show...that if he made it to Final 2 he would propose on camera.