The Bachelorette 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - #8 - Media - Tweets - IG - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - Discussion

agentcurls wrote:

Alanna wrote:Cutie

Thanks for posting that! Great interview.

K seemed to be quite the hot mess during filming, but seems a bit more grounded post-show, not to mention, pretty darn chipper and confident in her decision(s). Love looks good on her.

Yup!! She's reminding me of Ashley the most honestly- from hot mess, train that's about to go off the rails of a girl to a secure, confident, grounded woman. Hope it and the relationship last for her just like for Ash. 

I like that she says she's staying off of sm and doesn't need to read all the stuff people post even though she used to be all about sm. This reminds me of all the earlier speculation (before snapchat) that Shawn wasn't being supportive enough to be f1, when in reality I think it was actually a reflection of their mutual decision to keep the support to real life, they do have each other's phone numbers and all

That video ^. K can do no wrong in her own eyes, she's just being herself...okay. I'm sure anyone can dismiss their bad behavior that way. I'll have to remember that the next time I make a bad choice and don't want to hear any flack about it. That will make life easier!
Just being myself, just being myself.

I really don't see anything Kaitlyn did wrong.

She went on a date and they were intimate.

Really if you get down to it that is all she did. She didnt run over a puppy, she didnt join ISIS. She didnt plot murder.

This is a silly show. She did what a lot of women do on a date.

I would much rather this real situation. Than the BS we get every other season.

Everybody's moral compass is different:

Some people dont kiss on the first date, some do, some wont sleep together until the 5th date some do.

Kaitlyn lives in the moment and her feelings at that time will decide what happens.

To me that is refreshing. Cameras or not she is doing what she wants.

relaxing wrote:First, Shawn has never been shown with a raised voice with Kaitlyn or the other guys for that matter.  His impassioned rant, as I like to call it, was with a producer, where he thought he was off camera, venting out his frustrations and emotions to the guy he called the only one he trusted to talk about these things.  He said that line "don't you know what we have" during that time on last week's episode.  It was shown in the preview over him entering Kaitlyn's room to talk to her, but didn't actually happen then.  The preview made it look like he kind of burst in and yelled that at her but actually when he entered her room he only calmly said I wanted to see you and they sat down to talk.  There were no raised voices.  I also don't think "asking are you in love with me" is an ultimatum.  It's a question he wants an answer to but he's not trying force her to do something or else. An ultimatum would be "tell me you love me or I'm out of here" or "Nick goes or I go" - haven't seen Shawn do that to Kaitlyn as of now.  

Personally I'm impressed that for a guy he seems very able to communicate his worries and doubts to her in a calm clear well communicated way.  He's saved his whining for PI sessions/producers and kept himself together with Kaitlyn to allow them to actually really talk.  IMO.

Jmho: The other guys clearly knew that Shawn had off-camera time. Shawn told them. Why tell the guys this unless to let them know that he has something more than they do? Why not keep something personal like that personal? Also, the guys asked Shawn in SA, "Are you alright?" so it wasn't just a one time thing or only with the producers. As for him saving his behavior for producers/guys? No way he would show that side to Kaitlyn, but he still chooses to question her and she tears up/cries as a result ("smarter than that"..."your actions don't match your words [to me]" etc).

Shawn's "are you in love with me?". Yeah I see it as an ultimatum. Doesn't mean that is a bad thing per se but Shawn is choosing once again to do this and confront Kailtyn on camera. The only reason we know that Kaitlyn said Shawn is the one is because Shawn has said so. Same as him getting off-camera time. Shawn telling us and Joe telling us this too. They all knew.

So imo, Shawn is calling the shots. There's a reason everything changed and it ties into Shawn's behavior. He is not only letting the guys know where he stands but he is letting us know where Kaitlyn stands. Shawn's already said he is not going to last if Kailtyn's actions don't match her words of him being the one. So yes, him asking her on camera is putting her on the spot/an ultimatum.

If it wasn't and he wasn't going to follow through on his "not going to make it without some validation" then Shawn could choose not to ask K at all and just let the process happen and see what K does. Instead he chooses to question her again and then again for his own sake of reassurance but also so we the viewers see that Shawn's actions can be validated (he has said he wants validation) because after all, "she told me I am the one". It's as if Shawn wants Kaitlyn to prove to the viewers that what she told him off-camera is true and thus he is justified in his behavior.

As written in Shawn's thread, my take on the above discussion so far is, that Shawn is the one who Kaitlyn went too fast, too soon with (before Nick got his "luck in Dublin") and now the consequence is a turmoil of emotions. I just wonder (not that I need to know) if Kaitlyn, Shawn or TPTB will ever spill the beans or is it going to be the "best kept secret" (when there are only words, but no images, so it didn't happen).

AllAboutLove wrote:Jmho: The other guys clearly knew that Shawn had off-camera time. Shawn told them. Why tell the guys this unless to let them know that he has something more than they do? Why not keep something personal like that personal?

IMO I believe I know the answer to that but totally understand why a guy would understand it but a woman would not. I don't have time to fully explain so for now I'll just say it's instinctive and territorial - guys don't piss on a chair to mark their territory when it comes to competing for a woman, but they would do exactly this.

Lucas15 wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:Jmho: The other guys clearly knew that Shawn had off-camera time. Shawn told them. Why tell the guys this unless to let them know that he has something more than they do? Why not keep something personal like that personal?

IMO I believe I know the answer to that but totally understand why a guy would understand it but a woman would not. I don't have time to fully explain so for now I'll just say it's instinctive and territorial - guys don't piss on a chair to mark their territory when it comes to competing for a woman, but they would do exactly this.

Just for disclosure, the questions were rhetorical. Obviously he was marking his territory. Posted this in Shawn's thread. Eons of evolutionary/biological instinct kicking in an altered reality where there is only one woman left on the planet called The Bette.

Lucas15 wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:Jmho: The other guys clearly knew that Shawn had off-camera time. Shawn told them. Why tell the guys this unless to let them know that he has something more than they do? Why not keep something personal like that personal?

IMO I believe I know the answer to that but totally understand why a guy would understand it but a woman would not. I don't have time to fully explain so for now I'll just say it's instinctive and territorial - guys don't piss on a chair to mark their territory when it comes to competing for a woman, but they would do exactly this.

Lucas, I understand what you are saying and agree. My confusion is why it is good or adorable when Shawn does it but smug or sneaky when Nick did it last year or Britt did it with CS? Seems like a double standard and I personally don't like double standards.

But then again, my husband I have an equal partnership where he is stronger in some ways and I am in others. He has no need to be jealous or mark me and I trust him completely as well. Now this is a more mature relationship as I was 35 when we first met and he was 32. We both had career paths and knew who we were and what we wanted and didn't want.

While I think Kaitlyn made the right choice for her, I do think some of these girls get stuck on the alpha caveman and then realize that they would actually rather be a partner than a princess. JMO

JMHO: Stuck, I am afraid answers will never suffice or capture the complexity of it all.

Some will say because Shawn is real and genuine and really in love and so justify anything (this happens in real life too).
Some will say because Shawn is F1 and thus he is a winner so anything he does must have been okay with Kailtyn and since Nick is F2 then he was not okay with Kailtyn.
Some will say it is the packaging - the way that Shawn looks (if he didn't look like Ryan Gosling and was not good looking I doubt people will justify him as much).
Some will say it is just producers and TPTB influencing Shawn,and Kaitlyn chose him so that trumps all.
Some will say it is just evolutionary instinct kicking in and more so for Shawn because he got the "you're the one" speech.
... the list goes on.

At the end of the day, whatever one's view, it will be justified through the lens of one's own biases/life experiences....

It is why it is interesting that those who may be fans of Nick can still see a match with K and S but most of those who dislike Nick will be unlikely to say that they don't think K and S are a good match.

Obviously no one knows the dynamics of their relationship or any relationship, so it's hard to speculate but I guess I will anyway Imo, just because their relationship seems to be more traditional, it really doesn't equate to not being partners to me. They probably just operate under a different set of standards than a relationship with someone like Nick.

I don't see Kaitlyn happy with a controlling, jealous caveman because that's just not who she is from what I've seen, but she does like when the man takes care of her and makes her feel protected. Totally nothing wrong with that to me and doesn't indicate that she's looking for some meathead to order her around or anything like that. He was acting a little crazed seeing her with other men, but I don't think it's something either of them are proud of and not something she would put up with in the long-term.

AllAboutLove wrote:JMHO: Stuck, I am afraid answers will never suffice or capture the complexity of it all.

Some will say because Shawn is real and genuine and really in love and so justify anything (this happens in real life too).
Some will say because Shawn is F1 and thus he is a winner so anything he does must have been okay with Kailtyn and since Nick is F2 then he was not okay with Kailtyn.
Some will say it is the packaging - the way that Shawn looks (if he didn't look like Ryan Gosling and was not good looking I doubt people will justify him as much).
Some will say it is just producers and TPTB influencing Shawn,and Kaitlyn chose him so that trumps all.
Some will say it is just evolutionary instinct kicking in and more so for Shawn because he got the "you're the one" speech.
... the list goes on.

At the end of the day, whatever one's view, it will be justified through the lens of one's own biases/life experiences....

It is why it is interesting that those who may be fans of Nick can still see a match with K and S but most of those who dislike Nick will be unlikely to say that they don't think K and S are a good match.

Great post.  It is complex and you captured so many great points. We all have personal preferences.

And some will say Shawn can do no right. Everyone's prerogative.

I'd like to add that because someone this season relates or is drawn more to what they see as a love building between Shawn and Kaitlyn (which I do)  doesn't mean they are putting down Nick.  I liked Nick last season, thought Andi should pick him.  His ATFR outing didn't bother me. I think he looks the best he ever had post show with the beard and I believe he came on the show because he wanted a shot with Kaitlyn.  I also really like them together (aside from some complaints I have about BOTH their behaviours on that date). They have a great rapport and great chemistry.

Anyway, my point is I think she could have been a match with both, but I'm more a fan of her and Shawn because of what I see between them. I don't see that F1 vs F2 has to a a competition of all or nothing with both and that linking one means you have to dislike the other.  JMHO.

Side note not related to this post, I find Shawn to be very far from an alpha meathead caveman, but that's just me.

^ Thank you for your post relaxing.

Since you like/d Nick here is a question for those that dislike Nick...

Does anyone that dislikes Nick think that Kailtyn should not be with Shawn? That Shawn and Kaitlyn are not a good match? And not purely based on dislike for Kaitlyn. Because to me, that would be a very objective view if one can make that case.