Kaitlyn Bristowe - Shawn Booth - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion

I am not a fan of the practice of consuming substances (drugs, alcohol) for entertainment purposes. Drugs and alcohol are exogenous chemicals that when ingested have both short term and long term physiological effects. They are Central Nervous System depressants or stimulants with a wide range of effects on multiple organs. They are a double edged sword because they effect both our bodies and our judgement/behaviors. Irresponsible or excessive consumption can harm or even kill you, both quickly or slowly through the disease of addiction.

I'm not against having a glass of wine or a beer from time to time, if it's done with the intention that it's a part of a meal or a refreshing beverage on a hot day. If it is consumed without the intention of getting a buzz or drunk, it's a food/beverage. But when people drink multiple drinks because that's fun or entertaining to feel the physiological effects of it, that is not healthy, not smart, not responsible (whether or not driving or boating is involved). I know this isn't a popular opinion, but it is my opinion.

When I see pics of K and S it's not easy for me to ascertain from a photo what exactly they've consumed. In one pics they maybe be sitting with a bottle of twisted iced tea or a bottle of beer. Are they drunk? IDK. But when I see a pic of Shawn drink from a bottle of wine, it gives me the impression that they are consuming a lot of alcohol. Add to that goofy or trashy poses, and It gives me the impression that they are drunk.

I don't like the SM trend of posting pics of alcoholic beverages every time friends go out or have dinner with their spouse. Why is it necessary to show photos of alcohol as your representation for your night out? It seems like everybody does this, and it really bugs me. Is it because booze is the symbol of having a fun time? Is that the message you want to put out into the world: I'm having fun because I'm consuming alcohol.?

I think it's a bad message to put out there. I think youth take their lead from adults, and if this is the message you're sending, then the message they hear is alcohol is necessary for a fun night.

For these reasons, while I do not jump to conclusions about K and S from a single pic, when I see a clear pattern of documenting alcohol use, it bothers me. I do not respect it. JMO

MiaHawk wrote:I am not a fan of the practice of consuming substances (drugs, alcohol) for entertainment purposes. Drugs and alcohol are exogenous chemicals that when ingested have both short term and long term physiological effects. They are Central Nervous System depressants or stimulants with a wide range of effects on multiple organs. They are a double edged sword because they effect both our bodies and our judgement/behaviors. Irresponsible or excessive consumption can harm or even kill you, both quickly or slowly through the disease of addiction.

I'm not against having a glass of wine or a beer from time to time, if it's done with the intention that it's a part of a meal or a refreshing beverage on a hot day. If it is consumed without the intention of getting a buzz or drunk, it's a food/beverage. But when people drink multiple drinks because that's fun or entertaining to feel the physiological effects of it, that is not healthy,  not smart, not responsible (whether or not driving or boating is involved).  I know this isn't a popular opinion, but it is my opinion.

When I see pics of K and S it's not easy for me to ascertain from a photo what exactly they've consumed. In one pics they maybe be sitting with a bottle of twisted iced tea or a bottle of beer. Are they drunk? IDK. But when I see a pic of Shawn drink from a bottle of wine, it gives me the impression that they are consuming a lot of alcohol. Add to that goofy or trashy poses, and It gives me the impression that they are drunk.

I don't like the SM trend of posting pics of alcoholic beverages every time friends go out or have dinner with their spouse. Why is it necessary to show photos of alcohol as your representation for your night out? It seems like everybody does this, and it really bugs me. Is it because booze is the symbol of having a fun time? Is that the message you want to put out into the world: I'm having fun because I'm consuming alcohol.?

I think it's a bad message to put out there. I think youth take their lead from adults, and if this is the message you're sending, then the message they hear is alcohol is necessary for a fun night.

For these reasons, while I do not jump to conclusions about K and S from a single pic, when I see a clear pattern of documenting alcohol use, it bothers me. I do not respect it. JMO

I'm right up on that soap box with you! Thanks for saying this so well.

ReneeM wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:It is not the oversharing that is the main issue, it is the content of what is being shared.

These two were engaged and based on this show, those who worked out in the long run had some dates planned and were settled down already.

Talking about just wanting coffee and then being on SM more than not doesn't seem like any plans for settling down. Nothing wrong with that. But from the content of what is shared, these two do not look like 30 year olds about to walk down the aisle, more like 15 year old wannabe party people.

JMO

Kaitlyn and Shawn are different individuals and a different couple than anyone previously, therefore I don't think the bar for them as a couple and how they should act should be based on those before them. As for them not looking like two 30 year olds about to get married, I don't think there's a set look nor should there be. I don't know if they'll last, and the odds are certainly against them but a big part of marriage is wanting the same things out of life. So you or me could think oh they should settle down, get stable jobs etc, there are people who do that and are happy and those who don't and are equally as happy. If they're both on the same page and they want to get married and party and drink and travel they could, and still have a happy marriage. They've just got to find what works best for them as a couple and do that. Just my take.

They most certainly are. The most immature and attention grabbing out of them all, imho.
Shawn had a beer in his hand throughout the show and still does.
Nothing wrong with that, but they themselves have not talked marriage or wedding in a concrete way yet.
Could they make it as a couple who doesn't want to settle down? Sure. But they will be the rare ones.
There's enough statistical evidence from many years of research to support what makes for a healthy and longterm marriage/relationship and living in the moment, attention seeking, and most importantly, trust issues that began in the beginning, lead to a rocky end.
It is all very early days, and each has their opinion, mine is that drinking and partying is not most people's idea of marriage material... something which Kaitlyn and Shawn and others praise Ben H for not displaying.
TWT

MiaHawk wrote:I am not a fan of the practice of consuming substances (drugs, alcohol) for entertainment purposes. Drugs and alcohol are exogenous chemicals that when ingested have both short term and long term physiological effects. They are Central Nervous System depressants or stimulants with a wide range of effects on multiple organs. They are a double edged sword because they effect both our bodies and our judgement/behaviors. Irresponsible or excessive consumption can harm or even kill you, both quickly or slowly through the disease of addiction.

I'm not against having a glass of wine or a beer from time to time, if it's done with the intention that it's a part of a meal or a refreshing beverage on a hot day. If it is consumed without the intention of getting a buzz or drunk, it's a food/beverage. But when people drink multiple drinks because that's fun or entertaining to feel the physiological effects of it, that is not healthy,  not smart, not responsible (whether or not driving or boating is involved).  I know this isn't a popular opinion, but it is my opinion.

When I see pics of K and S it's not easy for me to ascertain from a photo what exactly they've consumed. In one pics they maybe be sitting with a bottle of twisted iced tea or a bottle of beer. Are they drunk? IDK. But when I see a pic of Shawn drink from a bottle of wine, it gives me the impression that they are consuming a lot of alcohol. Add to that goofy or trashy poses, and It gives me the impression that they are drunk.

I don't like the SM trend of posting pics of alcoholic beverages every time friends go out or have dinner with their spouse. Why is it necessary to show photos of alcohol as your representation for your night out? It seems like everybody does this, and it really bugs me. Is it because booze is the symbol of having a fun time? Is that the message you want to put out into the world: I'm having fun because I'm consuming alcohol.?

I think it's a bad message to put out there. I think youth take their lead from adults, and if this is the message you're sending, then the message they hear is alcohol is necessary for a fun night.

For these reasons, while I do not jump to conclusions about K and S from a single pic, when I see a clear pattern of documenting alcohol use, it bothers me. I do not respect it. JMO

Great post Mia. I know I over react to this. I grew up with two alcoholics, so I have a high sensitivity meter to alcohol or drug over use or abuse. They are getting into the overuse category to me. I bet their livers, especially Kaitlyn, are already showing signs of necrosis and add in the increased liklihood of dementia. So not worth it.

Also this 30 year old woman wants 4 children, hopefully she will quit drinking during pregnancy, but sadly the time she can damage the fetus is actually during that opps I didn't know I was pregnant period.

They can do as they wish, but when you hardly ever see them without alcohol and we see them too much, IMO, then I would say indicators of an issue or problem are there. JMO.

I listened an interview with one psychologist in my country, discussing why "our generation" is inclined to usurp/buy whatever is "free", why so many stuff their Facebook pages with thousands of pictures (twitter-use is not as popular in my country - yet), and not just FB, but they document/film their every step. Almost as if there's a need to prove that they exist.

And his explanation was quite fascinating, because I didn't think about it before.
He said, that through history it was a common practice that the society in which an individual lived in defined his/hers image.
The moment when the parents pulled the kids off the streets, into their home-environment, and started to treat them as a sacred thing, as their personal project, that's when the society started to decay in a sense, because suddenly the child wasn't defined by the "street" anymore. Since before it all your contemporary categorized your status in the group (society) and "now" suddenly the parents were defining your image, and since in one moment your parents have become almost not enough to tell you who you are, you need "friends" ... and since suddenly you are short of "friends" - your contemporary/street/hood - you invent them, buy them, you create an online profile and try to stamp more than thousands friends/followers who would determine your image.
Since now we live in the society where an individual has the "imaginary friends" on SM (people he/she doesn't have personal contact with) that identity is created by you. We, as an individual, we create our own image. And that is a problem that is not recognized, because it's a problem of an entire generation. Because this generation doesn't build the identity through what the real friends tell him/her, but what him/her-self posts on SM and what he/she wants to see to be reflected.
So we are designing our own identity/image, which is a version of narcissism 2.0, because we don't get anymore a common feedback about our image from the real community/society, but only from our parents who view us as one of a kind and from ourselves, we can have unrealistic view of ourselves.
And the virtual world is just helping us build that unrealistic identity, since we don't recognize our real ability and capability and more than we are distancing ourselves from the real world, more A) we are suffering and B) we are demanding from the society the service to mend/fix our problems.

Loved your refreshing post, Mia.

Mia I am of the same opinion. Great post.

AllAboutLove wrote:It is not the oversharing that is the main issue, it is the content of what is being shared.

These two were engaged and based on this show, those who worked out in the long run had some dates planned and were settled down already.

Talking about just wanting coffee and then being on SM more than not doesn't seem like any plans for settling down. Nothing wrong with that. But from the content of what is shared, these two do not look like 30 year olds about to walk down the aisle, more like 15 year old wannabe party people.

JMO

But I don't think I've heard them say they're ready to settle down and get married or have babies anytime soon? When asked about wedding plans they continually say "We want to enjoy the engagement." The closest I've heard them come to saying they're planning for that was her saying she wanted to have kids before she was 35 (she's 30 now). So...why is what they're doing wrong? I've said it before and I'll say it again. They both seem to appear the party lifestyle and did prior to being on the show...so I don't understand why anyone is sitting back and judging them for it. As long as it works for them....why does it matter?

This is a discussion thread and that is what is done here. Whether it would matter or not is another question.

Well it has been a while since I have been on here. I only started following with J&A and stopped once they broke up. But alas I am back and have been following the threads.

As for the k & S drinkings, I wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I can completely see that from some people's perspectives, especially depending on your background, the way they portray their drinking could come off as negative or too much. IMO, this is not the case however. Yes, they are seen multiple times drinking or holding alcohol on their social media forums. But, if you look closer as to what circumstances this is under, I think it changes it. They are not out at clubs until 4 am taking shot after shot. They aren't drinking in the car while the other is driving (at least that is shown). They are drinking while at family gatherings playing games or celebrating their engagement. (Also, just to point out, they were not the only ones drinking. Had they been, it would have been a little strange). In Vancouver, they were drinking on the beach just themselves and their friends. IMO, this is not reckless, careless, or in any way shows they aren't serious about their relationship. They like to have fun and that just so happens to include alcohol.

I know this topic won't be agreed upon, however I just wanted to state a different opinion. I also think ReneeM had a lot of great points!

Justafan2 wrote:Well it has been a while since I have been on here. I only started following with J&A and stopped once they broke up. But alas I am back and have been following the threads.

As for the k & S drinkings, I wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I can completely see that from some people's perspectives, especially depending on your background, the way they portray their drinking could come off as negative or too much. IMO, this is not the case however. Yes, they are seen multiple times drinking or holding alcohol on their social media forums. But, if you look closer as to what circumstances this is under, I think it changes it. They are not out at clubs until 4 am taking shot after shot. They aren't drinking in the car while the other is driving (at least that is shown). They are drinking while at family gatherings playing games or celebrating their engagement. (Also, just to point out, they were not the only ones drinking. Had they been, it would have been a little strange). In Vancouver, they were drinking on the beach just themselves and their friends. IMO, this is not reckless, careless, or in any way shows they aren't serious about their relationship. They like to have fun and that just so happens to include alcohol.

I know this topic won't be agreed upon, however I just wanted to state a different opinion. I also think ReneeM had a lot of great points!

Great post and I agree. To each their own.

Justafan, Kaitlyn has posted snaps of her going to clubs and being close to black-out drunk. There were some early in her season and of course the infamous post-MTA one where she made that roofie joke. She did appear quite reckless and careless in them. Your point still stands that she's not hurting anyone (except herself), but I think that some people with different values will just find that behavior difficult to accept from a 30-y/o woman. She herself admitted that she drank everyday during Chris's season and seemed to continue that trend on her own season. She's obviously someone who drinks a LOT. I'll admit that I kind of judge that behavior, but She could be doing worse, I suppose.