Kaitlyn Bristowe - Shawn Booth - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion

agentcurls wrote:Since they were Bachelorettes, they always had a dominance or upper hand with all contestants except with their respective F1s, in which they all appeared to soften and take a more submissive role. That's my observation anyway.

IMO this is a very accurate observation and it's observable because it's instinctive. Males instinctively protect the female they mate with and females instinctively seek and accept the protection of the male they mate with. This behavior fosters the the survival of a species and thus natural selection favors it. The feminist "I am woman hear me roar" mantra is learned behavior - not instinctive. So once these bachlorettes found the mate of their choice they accept his protection and that enables a softer more feminine role in his presence. They probably don't even realize they are doing it. JMO

peggy0221 wrote:JP is Ashley's rock throughout the journey, but Shawn only shakes the ground. And I'm still yet to see their mental connection to say they are a great match.

IMO it's a hard comparison to make because we have a whole lot of post filming interactions to cloud our memory about Ashley and JP but during airing, JP was limited in what he could do or say in public. He did pen a blog that was supportive of Ashley but that was only because the show allowed him to. I believe he was probably very supportive of Ashley in private but more restricted in public.

We have yet to see how Shawn interacts with Kaitlyn because they aren't in public yet. It's hard enough to keep any mystery in the post snapchat-gate world so I don't see any blog or public support by Shawn being allowed so whatever he is doing - it isn't visible to us. IMO the softer side of Kaitlyn that we have recently seen suggests that Shawn is giving her that support - and that's why we see her softer side.

agentcurls wrote:Even if there wasn't a SnapChat incident, I would venture to guess Shawn was F1 based on how Kaitlyn behaves in his presence.

It's very similiar to how Meredith was with Ian, DeAnna with Graham, Jilly/Ed, Ali/Roberto, Ashley/J.P.

Since they were Bachelorettes, they always had a dominance or upper hand with all contestants except with their respective F1s, in which they all appeared to soften and take a more submissive role. That's my observation anyway.

I even notice that Bachelors act that way with their top girls - like Brad/Emily, Ben/Courtney, Chris/Becca, JP/Sharleen. I do agree that there are probably evolutionary gender principles that play into it, but I also think it has something to do with fear and vulnerability coming out when you actually start to fall in love, because the other person now has the ability to hurt you. I will say that I never really saw Ali become submissive or even soft in her relationship with Roberto.

I do notice Kaitlyn looking for approval when she's with Shawn, but I think that has a lot to do with Shawn himself. He has shown disappointment in her, whereas Nick has been more accepting, at least so far.

chasingpavements wrote:I do notice Kaitlyn looking for approval when she's with Shawn, but I think that has a lot to do with Shawn himself. He has shown disappointment in her, whereas Nick has been more accepting, at least so far.

I think there's at least two very interesting dynamics I'm watching. On Andi's season Nick wrote a "second chance letter" setting out that a relationship with him would be the harder road to travel but one with greater rewards at the end. Yet this season Nick seems the easier road to travel and Shawn the harder one; sort of a reversal of roles.

But I also see an even more interesting yin and yang between Kaitlyn and Shawn. Most love relationships that end in marriage contain 3 components - lust / sexual attraction, friendship / emotional intimacy, and commitment to make the relationship permanent. Love can start with lust and develop friendship that leads to commitment, or it can start with a friendship that develops a sexual attraction that leads to commitment.

Kaitlyn is all about the lust / sexual chemistry and her desire to explore that, and Nick seems to be more than willing to explore that with her. But Shawn is all about communications and actions being consistent resulting in trust; I have yet to hear Shawn question their sexual chemistry. But if you put Shawn & Kaitlyn together you have one "partner" pushing the sexual attraction and the other partner pushing the communications / honesty / trust "attraction". If both partners succeed in getting from the other what each wants individually you have 2 of the 3 building blocks of marital love and a couple able to discuss of this is a relationship they can each commit to making long term / permanent.

^really great insight into the relationship dynamics, Lucas15!

Lucas15 wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:I do notice Kaitlyn looking for approval when she's with Shawn, but I think that has a lot to do with Shawn himself. He has shown disappointment in her, whereas Nick has been more accepting, at least so far.

I think there's at least two very interesting dynamics I'm watching. On Andi's season Nick wrote a "second chance letter" setting out that a relationship with him would be the harder road to travel but one with greater rewards at the end. Yet this season Nick seems the easier road to travel and Shawn the harder one; sort of a reversal of roles.

But I also see an even more interesting yin and yang between Kaitlyn and Shawn. Most love relationships that end in marriage contain 3 components - lust / sexual attraction, friendship / emotional intimacy, and commitment to make the relationship permanent. Love can start with lust and develop friendship that leads to commitment, or it can start with a friendship that develops a sexual attraction that leads to commitment.

Kaitlyn is all about the lust / sexual chemistry and her desire to explore that, and Nick seems to be more than willing to explore that with her. But Shawn is all about communications and actions being consistent resulting in trust; I have yet to hear Shawn question their sexual chemistry. But if you put Shawn & Kaitlyn together you have one "partner" pushing the sexual attraction and the other partner pushing the communications / honesty / trust "attraction". If both partners succeed in getting from the other what each wants individually you have 2 of the 3 building blocks of marital love and a couple able to discuss of this is a relationship they can each commit to making long term / permanent.

Lucas these are great observations however one thing to remember is that you are commenting on the part of the relationships that the producers have allowed us to see...Shawn's communication/trust edit and Nick's physical/lust edit. I am sure that both relationships have depth in the "opposite" areas as well. They lead viewers to believe the relationships are heavily emotional or physical in order to put together a story for us to buy into. Nick = lusty versus Shawn = emotional.

Lucas15 wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:I do notice Kaitlyn looking for approval when she's with Shawn, but I think that has a lot to do with Shawn himself. He has shown disappointment in her, whereas Nick has been more accepting, at least so far.

I think there's at least two very interesting dynamics I'm watching. On Andi's season Nick wrote a "second chance letter" setting out that a relationship with him would be the harder road to travel but one with greater rewards at the end. Yet this season Nick seems the easier road to travel and Shawn the harder one; sort of a reversal of roles.

But I also see an even more interesting yin and yang between Kaitlyn and Shawn. Most love relationships that end in marriage contain 3 components - lust / sexual attraction, friendship / emotional intimacy, and commitment to make the relationship permanent. Love can start with lust and develop friendship that leads to commitment, or it can start with a friendship that develops a sexual attraction that leads to commitment.

Kaitlyn is all about the lust / sexual chemistry and her desire to explore that, and Nick seems to be more than willing to explore that with her. But Shawn is all about communications and actions being consistent resulting in trust; I have yet to hear Shawn question their sexual chemistry. But if you put Shawn & Kaitlyn together you have one "partner" pushing the sexual attraction and the other partner pushing the communications / honesty / trust "attraction". If both partners succeed in getting from the other what each wants individually you have 2 of the 3 building blocks of marital love and a couple able to discuss of this is a relationship they can each commit to making long term / permanent.

Interesting points. I actually disagree a bit because I think that Nick/Kaitlyn have already mastered the friendship/emotional intimacy aspect, far more than any couple who only spends time together during filming (which is like, what, 48 hours total?) can build. Remember, Kaitlyn herself wrote that she and Nick were the "closest two people can be without ever meeting" and that he was her "go-to person for advice". To me, that suggests that they already had that strong friendship and emotional intimacy. She said she asked him advice about the Two Bachelorettes thing, which means that she probably talked to him about her fear about getting rejected over looks and dealing with public humiliation; to me that suggests that she really trusted him and allowed herself to be vulnerable around him. I think that it's partly the reason that their sexual chemistry IS so strong, because it's not just based on physical attraction but an emotional connection.

And, I still think that Nick is the "harder road to travel". I think that Shawn is more like the typical guy that Kaitlyn's dated (alpha male, athlete, etc), whereas Nick probably isn't someone that she would normally have dated (a little awkward and dorky, more intellectual, not physically built). I think that Kaitlyn must realized that, outside of the Bachelor bubble, she and Nick have fundamentally different personalities (funny, lives in the moment vs. analytical, always thinking ahead) that would have created problems.

CP I agree great post!
Also Kaitlyn said slow n steady!

I certainly wouldn't call Shawn slow n steady!.

Maybe she thought her and Nick's relationship was slow and steady since they had a few months chatting as friends?

Lucas15 wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:I do notice Kaitlyn looking for approval when she's with Shawn, but I think that has a lot to do with Shawn himself. He has shown disappointment in her, whereas Nick has been more accepting, at least so far.

I think there's at least two very interesting dynamics I'm watching. On Andi's season Nick wrote a "second chance letter" setting out that a relationship with him would be the harder road to travel but one with greater rewards at the end. Yet this season Nick seems the easier road to travel and Shawn the harder one; sort of a reversal of roles.

But I also see an even more interesting yin and yang between Kaitlyn and Shawn. Most love relationships that end in marriage contain 3 components - lust / sexual attraction, friendship / emotional intimacy, and commitment to make the relationship permanent. Love can start with lust and develop friendship that leads to commitment, or it can start with a friendship that develops a sexual attraction that leads to commitment.

Kaitlyn is all about the lust / sexual chemistry and her desire to explore that, and Nick seems to be more than willing to explore that with her. But Shawn is all about communications and actions being consistent resulting in trust; I have yet to hear Shawn question their sexual chemistry. But if you put Shawn & Kaitlyn together you have one "partner" pushing the sexual attraction and the other partner pushing the communications / honesty / trust "attraction". If both partners succeed in getting from the other what each wants individually you have 2 of the 3 building blocks of marital love and a couple able to discuss of this is a relationship they can each commit to making long term / permanent.

Love this post and totally agree.

I really enjoyed catching up the last two pages. Everyone!

peggy0221 wrote:I wish them well, but I still see a Des/Brooks kind of relationship, only this "Brooks" seems to reciprocate. It's hard to compare to Jash relationship I think, because they have physical chemistry, as well as mental connection!

JP is Ashley's rock throughout the journey, but Shawn only shakes the ground. And I'm still yet to see their mental connection to say they are a great match.

IA peggy. Whether that's the edit they are trying to show us or not. I'd rather see a F1 more secure in his feelings for the lead. I suppose it's only natural to feel a little jealousy but in this type of setting, he should IMO be more understanding of her role and throw in some support as well.

I think once this is all said and done, he will probably not have any issues in that department, I hope.

GuardianAngel wrote:I really enjoyed catching up the last two pages. Everyone!

peggy0221 wrote:I wish them well, but I still see a Des/Brooks kind of relationship, only this "Brooks" seems to reciprocate. It's hard to compare to Jash relationship I think, because they have physical chemistry, as well as mental connection!

JP is Ashley's rock throughout the journey, but Shawn only shakes the ground. And I'm still yet to see their mental connection to say they are a great match.

IA peggy. Whether that's the edit they are trying to show us or not. I'd rather see a F1 more secure in his feelings for the lead. I suppose it's only natural to feel a little jealousy but in this type of setting, he should IMO be more understanding of her role and throw in some support as well.

I think once this is all said and done, he will probably not have any issues in that department, I hope.

I don't know how this could not be the case with her interviews unless she's just totally crazed delusional? She freely talks about her sexcapades and doesn't regret the sex while filming. So either he's normal and secure and she's not afraid of rocking the boat talking like this, or she's just totally stupid and not reading the room? Or rather not stupid, but totally fine if he breaks-up with her now and doesn't care. I have no idea.

Hotmomma wrote:CP I agree great post!
Also Kaitlyn said slow n steady!

I certainly wouldn't call Shawn slow n steady!.

Maybe she thought her and Nick's relationship was slow and steady since they had a few months chatting as friends?

I don't think she was necessarily talking about her f1 when she said that. That was early in the season and seem to remember her saying she liked the slow and steady guys. I don't think either of the f2 could be described like that. More likely it was guys like Cupcake, Jared, & maybe Ben H. JMO of course.

As past leads have said the relationship starts after the show so it's too soon to tell if K/S have what it takes but so far I like her best with Shawn.

^^^ I don't think kaitlyn is stupid Alanna, and I believe all must be well in "Shaitlyn" land now. She has been so giddy and happy. Guess we will see. ;)

I agree albean that most leads have said the show stops at the final rose ceremony and "real life" begins.