Shawn Booth - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #2

eliza3 wrote:

charriotoffire wrote:Now that E and Us has reports that Nick is the sex guy, Shawn will only look foolish if he's the F1.  

He'll be the guy who got Nick's sloppy seconds.  No wonder Nick seemed content and happy not being chosen.  Nick is smart enough not to be 'engaged' with Kaitlyn.  That is too much pressure considering he's the type who values fiancee type of stuff. YMMV and IMHO.

If the new spoilers are correct, Nick DID propose and Kaitlyn turned him down.  So guessing he wasn't that smart after all   JMHO

mprssdbyu wrote:IMO, after shawn shows up in a tizzy, K talked him down off the ledge so to speak by simply reminding him this is the journey of the show....reminded him she thinks of him often,too. Of course, that probably won't be shown. I do feel the crying scene has to do with the reaction of someone leaving...it may have been post Ians tirade before they head to Ireland...either way...I just don't feel it is a result of Shawn vs Nick...not yet anyway.

I think, but not sure, that the crying scenes in gray tee shirt were sleuthed to be at hotel in Utah? Honestly, this has become one confusing season. I usually have no problem following along and linking the sleuthing and spoilers to what's happening, but not this time. Maybe I am losing my touch?

^^ Irishgal - I believe there are two screen caps of Kaitlyn crying, one was sleuthed in Ireland and one from Utah. The one they showed in last week's promo was the one from Ireland I believe it is the same shirt she is wearing when the guy in the red striped shirt comes to her door (who we believe is Shawn)

I believe you are correct sbolduc. Two different crying moments with two different gray shirts as sleuthed in the s/caps thread awhile back. So the shortsleeved gray shirt is the same as when Shawn is in the red striped shirt in her room in Ireland. The striped gray shirt is Utah, IIRC from sleuthing.

sbolduc wrote:^^ Irishgal - I believe there are two screen caps of Kaitlyn crying, one was sleuthed in Ireland and one from Utah. The one they showed in last week's promo was the one from Ireland I believe it is the same shirt she is wearing when the guy in the red striped shirt comes to her door (who we believe is Shawn)

Oops. Thanks guys.

IrishGal wrote:I think, but not sure, that the crying scenes in gray tee shirt were sleuthed to be at hotel in Utah?  Honestly, this has become one confusing season.  I usually have no problem following along and linking the sleuthing and spoilers to what's happening, but not this time.  Maybe I am losing my touch?

Nah - I think the producers are getting better at their touch. This seems to be a season that has a lot of ins and outs and ups and downs (ya'll have to figure out if I intended that as a pun) as the journey unfolds. It's confusing to watch because IMO it was confusing to live as well.

Lucas15 wrote:

IrishGal wrote:I think, but not sure, that the crying scenes in gray tee shirt were sleuthed to be at hotel in Utah?  Honestly, this has become one confusing season.  I usually have no problem following along and linking the sleuthing and spoilers to what's happening, but not this time.  Maybe I am losing my touch?

Nah - I think the producers are getting better at their touch. This seems to be a season that has a lot of ins and outs and ups and downs (ya'll have to figure out if I intended that as a pun) as the journey unfolds. It's confusing to watch because IMO it was confusing to live as well.

I think that's exactly right, she barely figured it all out on her own and I think what was most confusing is that Nick is "real life" and Shawn was "Bachelor life." So it was probably really difficult for Kaitlyn to understand her real feelings and what's appropriate because her reality tv life was clashing with a very real life friend. I'm SO happy for her sake she got there in the end.

^^^^ So well put Alanna. Love your avatar too.

Alanna wrote:I think what was most confusing is that Nick is "real life" and Shawn was "Bachelor life." So it was probably really difficult for Kaitlyn to understand her real feelings and what's appropriate because her reality tv life was clashing with a very real life friend.

I think that's very true and I also think there was a significant other difference - that of the connection she had to both guys. I like to think in terms of the triangular theory of love because I think it makes it easier to understand the different set of emotions we feel. The 3 points of the triangle (in the easiest terms to understand) are lust, friendship and commitment. The theory is that all 3 are present in a marriage type relationship and some combination of them are present in other types of relationships. Your BFF (Best Friend Forever) may combine friendship and an emotional connection - it's someone you can tell anything about yourself to and feel comfortable (Best Friend) and you may be committed to feeling that way long term (Forever) but you don't want to have sex with them (so Lust is missing). A common way for a marital relationship to begin is with lust, leading to a friendship and ultimately a commitment to keep that lust and friendship a permanent or long term part of your life, but that's not the only way a marital relationship can develop. The "social experiment" (or in the case of Season 2 - disaster) that is Married At First Sight is an attempt to start with commitment and grow friendship and lust afterwards - IMO an unusual kind of progression but not an impossible one.

IMO Kaitlyn had the friendship part with Nick but neither lust nor commitment - it's hard to feel lust for someone you've never met and she seemed perfectly willing to walk away from Nick to be The Bachelorette so there was no commitment on her part. IMO she had Lust with (for) Shawn and was trying to explore friendship with him before making a commitment. Her decision was to explore lust with Nick and Shawn was forcing her to explore friendship / trust with him (apparent to me in his questions of her which are related to both trust and also of her preparedness to commit). Shawn seems to also feel lust as perhaps a foregone conclusion but he's looking for honesty and communications to see if he can make a commitment. So far he hasn't seen that and to be honest, the edit hasn't shown it to me yet either.

I'm sort of fascinated to see how this all plays out even though I believe the end is that it does work for Kaitlyn.

I haven't seen shawn or K trying to establish friendship with each other - more likely on the cutting room floor but they seem very much like lovers and not exactly friends as far as we can see. Shawn doesn't have much trust in her smarts or her judgement -- he didn't give Nick nor K the benefit of the doubt. But cos of the strengths of his passion for K and what she tells him is for her he keeps moving forward putting that out of his head ...I don't think they have a friendship rapport to explore difficult topics from a place of comraderie enjoying and exploring each others thoughts and from a place of wanting the best for eachother. Shawn is trying to see if he needs to be one foot out the door but from the way he communicated -- it wasn't establishing a friendship trust beyond the passionate lovers based connection

imho

emusha wrote:I haven't seen shawn or K trying to establish friendship with each other - more likely on the cutting room floor but they seem very much like lovers and not exactly friends as far as we can see. Shawn doesn't have much trust in her smarts or her judgement -- he didn't give Nick nor K the benefit of the doubt. But cos of the strengths of his passion for K and what she tells him is for her he keeps moving forward putting that out of his head ...I don't think they have a friendship rapport to explore difficult topics from a place of camaraderie enjoying and exploring each others thoughts and from a place of wanting the best for each other. Shawn is trying to see if he needs to be one foot out the door but from the way he communicated -- it wasn't establishing a friendship trust beyond the passionate lovers based connection

imho

All of the points that I bolded are very much what I see except that I see Shawn actually is trying get to that "place of camaraderie enjoying and exploring each others thoughts and from a place of wanting the best for each other". That doesn't happen automatically - you have to share your own thoughts and sometimes that means telling someone something that they maybe didn't want to hear and that's why it's so difficult to have those communications. IMO that's what Shawn is trying to do. Whether he's going about it the best possible way or just the best way he knows how is debatable - but he's trying to have that communication. So far I don't think Kaitlyn is there yet.

I'm sure Kaitlyn would want to skip this episode and air the next one