Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #2

notarose wrote:

SueSt wrote:I'm wondering if the 'antics' RS is pointing to with re: to Nick in the seventh episode (before HTDs) has anything to do with Nick trying to 'take control' of the dating situation before he introduces K to his family. Asking her for assurances, talking to her about his concerns, etc... it certainly would make sense given his personal history and history on the show...

   Any or all of those things could be interpreted as a negative by some because they are rarely seen on the show expressed by a guy and because of how some view Nick's history ... the music to set the tone   .
I could see him asking for an additional 1-1 date.  He came in week 4 and had a chat, week 5 he went on a group date, week 6 he was spotted we think on a 1-1.  If he had another 1-1 or just a GD in week 7 that's not a lot of time given he wasn't there weeks 1-most of 4.  We don't know if he stayed after the chat in NY or left and permanently joined in week 5. He missed lots of earlier GD time and cocktail party time. 
I could also see him talking about concerns.  A marriage needs open communication where your partner becomes your confidant.  It's important to know how a potential partner responds when you have things on your mind be they large or trivial.  

Or maybe he was being human and had a bad day,

... and assurances are rarely (sought) expressed by a contestant, who, Nick aside, generally seem to take on very passive roles in a process that gives all the power to the 'ette.
yes on the additional time/date, makes sense...  and certainly talking about his concerns.  You are right too on the need for open communication in a relationship.  If K is as good as you all say, I would think she would welcome Nick's serious approach and ensuing discussion.

^ when I first started watching this franchise, I had an idealized mindset.  Who would be the perfect guy?  Or who was somehow nearest perfection?  Looks, agreeable, nice.  I actually picked at all those things that might make a person normal - their flaws & imperfections. For some reason, I would have expectations on these people that I, personally, could never live up too .

Maybe my mindset changed because it's been quite a few years.  I now find the nearer to perfection, the less authentic or at least the less someone is risking revealing all facets of their personality infront of the camera. I don't really blame them as it's difficult to be natural when you're being pulled aside to do an ITM or while having camera guys so close you can almost smell their breath.
 In Ashley's season, for example, I liked that JP would get peeved or jealous, get shy or act goofy, perhaps have a wee too much drink, or just take charge and grab the girl in the rain.  He wasn't my fav guy for me on the season but he was my fav guy, by far, for her. He wasn't a santitized version of  a man in some romance novel but he ended up, in my mind, being the most romantic of the bunch in his own way.  She chose very very well. 

Go big or go home.  Be authentic so if you're the last one standing you're not a stranger when the cameras are gone.

Is it possible that tptb had Nick come on (maybe he was interested in Kaitlyn also) to create some jealousy among the men - see if Kaitlyn's intended really cared for her and was upset when Nick showed up. How do they guys react ??

notarose wrote:^ when I first started watching this franchise, I had an idealized mindset.  Who would be the perfect guy?  Or who was somehow nearest perfection?  Looks, agreeable, nice.  I actually picked at all those things that might make a person normal - their flaws & imperfections. For some reason, I would have expectations on these people that I, personally, could never live up too .

Maybe my mindset changed because it's been quite a few years.  I now find the nearer to perfection, the less authentic or at least the less someone is risking revealing all facets of their personality infront of the camera. I don't really blame them as it's difficult to be natural when you're being pulled aside to do an ITM or while having camera guys so close you can almost smell their breath.
 In Ashley's season, for example, I liked that JP would get peeved or jealous, get shy or act goofy, perhaps have a wee too much drink, or just take charge and grab the girl in the rain.  He wasn't my fav guy for me on the season but he was my fav guy, by far, for her. He wasn't a santitized version of  a man in some romance novel but he ended up, in my mind, being the most romantic of the bunch in his own way.  She chose very very well. 

Go big or go home.  Be authentic so if you're the last one standing you're not a stranger when the cameras are gone.

Great post, NR... particularly in that it speaks to what is the real meaning of 'perfection' and of course, it's different for each of us at different times of our lives. Like you, earlier in my life, I had an image of the "perfect guy"... then wound up marrying a man that was no one in a million years my younger self would have picked and of course (as much as a spouse can be ) he's perfect... for ME.
Go big or go home. I trust our boy to ferret out what he's looking for and ask (demand) the same from K. Whatever the outcome, I trust it will be an authentic journey.

CHO wrote:Is it possible that tptb had Nick come on (maybe he was interested in Kaitlyn also) to create some jealousy among the men - see if Kaitlyn's intended really cared for her and was upset when Nick showed up.  How do they guys react ??  

Sure. TPTB is capable of that though it would surprise me that Elan would intentionally put Nick in that situation 
I highly doubt Nick would have thought that was why he was there.  His SM shows what looks like genuine interest in her. And Kaitlyn would have had to string Nick along.  In other words, Kaitlyn, Nick, and production would have all had to have conspired to fake out the audience and the idea of encouraging Kaitlyn's top pick to move more quickly sounds like he is/would be used as well. 

Nick really has nothing to gain going on the show except for a possible relationship.  His image was more crap than not during last season.  He doesn't need audiences to be reminded of him, he could have just gone on BIP if that's what he wanted.  No way is he a next Bach candidate.  Arie was better liked than Nick and we always see new season guys having better momentum for next lead. This season seems rich in candidates and Josh Murray is ready in the wings with a massive fan base. 
He hasn't done any paid appearances since his round of ATFR interviews even though he could have joined Brian, Dylan, or Marquel. I just don't think there is a conspiracy.

Kaitlyn and he either have a future or they don't based on who they are and what they want IMO

notarose wrote:

SueSt wrote:I'm wondering if the 'antics' RS is pointing to with re: to Nick in the seventh episode (before HTDs) has anything to do with Nick trying to 'take control' of the dating situation before he introduces K to his family. Asking her for assurances, talking to her about his concerns, etc... it certainly would make sense given his personal history and history on the show...

   Any or all of those things could be interpreted as a negative by some because they are rarely seen on the show expressed by a guy and because of how some view Nick's history ... the music to set the tone   .
I could see him asking for an additional 1-1 date.  He came in week 4 and had a chat, week 5 he went on a group date, week 6 he was spotted we think on a 1-1.  If he had another 1-1 or just a GD in week 7 that's not a lot of time given he wasn't there weeks 1-most of 4.  We don't know if he stayed after the chat in NY or left and permanently joined in week 5. He missed lots of earlier GD time and cocktail party time. 
I could also see him talking about concerns.  A marriage needs open communication where your partner becomes your confidant.  It's important to know how a potential partner responds when you have things on your mind be they large or trivial.  

Or maybe he was being human and had a bad day,

i agree NR...i would be concerned if they both didn't discuss concerns. If it is just a smooth sailing perfect ride then that to me would raise a flag of too perfect...too good to be true. And if Nick had a bad day...that is ok. That is real and will happen in real life. he may have said/done something "salty" ...maybe date related...maybe something else.

Maybe Nick was Bi**hy because: 1) he was sick from eating too many hamburgers;  2) he REALLY  wanted some almond butter but it was too expensive and Elan refused to buy it for him; or 3) the other guys are PO'd and  keep putting mayonnaise on his food and there is no ketchup.  

KB_Mom wrote:Maybe Nick was Bi**hy because: 1) he was sick from eating too many hamburgers;  2) he REALLY  wanted some almond butter but it was too expensive and Elan refused to buy it for him; or 3) the other guys are PO'd and  keep putting mayonnaise on his food and there is no ketchup.  

One of the concerns I have about Nick/Kaitlyn is Nick isn't afraid to be controversially to get what he wants. I think Kaitlyn is trying to market her "brand" and I'm not so sure her "demographic" would want Nick to be a part of it.  As much as like Nick/Kaitlyn together I wonder if she wants to be with someone who is more "drama free" and liked by the majority of the fans just like she is  

good point jen -- i think it might ring true for Kaitlyn

jen689 wrote:One of the concerns I have about Nick/Kaitlyn is Nick isn't afraid to be controversially to get what he wants. I think Kaitlyn is trying to market her "brand" and I'm not so sure her "demographic" would want Nick to be a part of it.  As much as like Nick/Kaitlyn together I wonder if she wants to be with someone who is more "drama free" and liked by the majority of the fans just like she is  

I don't think he's dramatic but certainly polarizing.  
If branding is part of her future and that means a higher profile in entertainment then she should go with that dream.  If it is her priority from her Bette experience then certainly, Nick is not her man if her expectation is to be a high profile couple and relocate to one of the meccas that provide the most opportunity. 
Trista chose a lowkey guy in terms of him not craving the spotlight after the show but that only worked because it was a different time in society/the power of the franchise and she moved to Vial & made some compromises after her brief DWTS appearance. Her priority shifted to marriage and having children with some time still spent taking advantage of opportunities, sometimes without Ryan.

I would consider Marie Teressa Viall's media job (segment on local TV station) low key compared to Ali F's.

jen689 wrote:One of the concerns I have about Nick/Kaitlyn is Nick isn't afraid to be controversially to get what he wants. I think Kaitlyn is trying to market her "brand" and I'm not so sure her "demographic" would want Nick to be a part of it.  As much as like Nick/Kaitlyn together I wonder if she wants to be with someone who is more "drama free" and liked by the majority of the fans just like she is  

My thing is why then have him join...she could have prevented any Nick "drama" that way by turning him down