Bachelor New Zealand - Art Green - *Sleuthing* - *Spoilers*

I've been watching this show ,( liking it a lot) but not following the board here and haven't watched the past few episodes but I did some catching up tonight and got to hometown dates . Can anyone tell me if fantasy overnight dates are this coming Tuesday and when will it be up on YouTube ? TIA ( my pick for f1 is Matilda).

AmyB wrote:

HEA wrote:

mercieme wrote:

There was no AFTR for BACH AUS S2 due to the fiasco. All we got was a "he said" vs "she said" with Blake & Sam respectively  

So this would truly be a first AFTR post the finale, really keen on it becos I am curious to cross check against what was sleuthed

definitely fun!
did we have a AFTF later with AU #1?

There was an ATFR for TBAU #1 - it may have been combined with the WTA and aired straight after the finale, but it was awhile ago so I'm not 100% sure.

That is correct.

Jolena wrote:I've been watching this show ,( liking it a lot) but not following the board here and haven't watched the past few episodes but I did some catching up tonight and got to hometown dates . Can anyone tell me if fantasy overnight dates are this coming Tuesday and when will it be up on YouTube ? TIA ( my pick for  f1 is Matilda).

Yes, overnight dates are tomorrow and then the finale is Wednesday night.

dancer33 wrote:

HEA wrote:he crossed his hand behind dani's back to hold him closer and i did not see that with any other girls. the way he hold her on her shoulders i see a couple. they were not posing, they were totally comfortable with each other and he took her with both arms. she was not the one who held him, he was. and for me that is an important detail and this is not a friend gesture IMO it is a "you are my girl" gesture with protection in mine. but we all see with our fan eyes and that is fine with me  

I cannot wait for wednesday. sucks that we do not have a 2 days last shows with after show.

I've been lurking for the duration of the show because I've been interested to see how non-kiwis are interpreting our first Bachelor season. HEA, I think you're gut instinct about Art and Dani is spot on. I would be shocked if he doesn't end up with Dani and I think it's always been Dani since their first date.

If one were to go back and listen to the voiceovers from Art that were recorded before the show had started and watch his first date with Dani, that was real. So much of what we have seen since that point is producer-driven IMO including some of the key scenes with Matilda that people have been agonising over. I could be wrong of course but I'm not a fan of any particular girl and I have over 20 years experience in front of the camera in NZ and AU so I would like to think I'm fairly objective about what I'm watching. Prior to episode 5 when Art went on his first date with Dani his voiceover is as follows - "I'm looking for a girl who shares the same interests as me, someone who has a great sense of adventure, and loves discovering new things." How much clearer can a man be?

Thank you and welcome!!

I came to the same conclusion when I listened the voice over and ITM, especially arthur since he is the lead and the girls are asked to repeat ad nauseam their feelings, hopes etc and producers select what they want to make their script. So for me it was more about arthur, the music, the body language.

Everything was messed up at the jumping group date IMO. It was clear that arthur spent a lot of time with dani (confirmed by him and herself), not especially shown on TV but definitely said. So if a lead is looking always for the same person to speak with, there is no way that all of a sudden he changed his mind about dani. So for me it was clear that producers pushed him in other direction in order to have some material to build their show. Lets remember that from the start he said he wanted a girlfriend (confirmed in his intro and his mother). I got confused with alysha but i think she made the moves (confirmed by her: I gave my all)

Matilda for me is either the next bachelorette or the smoke. She represents the perfect girlfriend every mother wishes for their son, perfect example for their daughters and perfect on paper. She is an immediate candidate for marriage. She appeals the ranger of age 10-60 because she is reserved, sweet, fit the "kiwi" standards versus dani who is very loud and making faces and is an outgoing girl which is definitely not the norms in NZ (and I understand that dani's personality may not appeal to everyone 10-60, especially middle aged women fans). Arthur had all the time in the world to build a connection with her since the jet ski and her first 1:1 anti-romantic bridge date. He did not. Kisses are fade and very much alike poppy's very friend zone.

The last rose ceremony gave me clues that it is dani: music, the last minute talk definitely to put some doubts to the audience about their connection and his last minute change of mind. The bad edits (arthur body language). The taken aback was more about the fact he did not know how to react, not about her feelings. Since he said he wanted a girlfriend, I think he was taken aback that the carefree dani, funny dani, expressed her deep feelings. He knew but he did not know how to react at that time because he was expecting dani to be less intense and he felt uncomfortable because not prepared. Clearly, he was repeating his speech in his head because he did not even listened when she said "it makes me happy" about the cat walk. (the wedding dress for dani, very symbolic like ashley/JP). He continued his speech as if it was a play repeated in front of the camera. But when dani interrupted him, he lost it a bit and continue to finish his learned "lesson" (head down before the speech says to me he did a reversal of his speech in his head, the nervous laugh when she says "it makes me upset just to talk about it"). I also noticed that reference of "I am the same". So for me from that time, they discussed future and possibilities and she was already way ahead above any connections with the other girls.

The last 2 episodes, dani wears the same clothes and it was not taped before the F4 because she specifically speaks about the F5 and F4. She is totally happy, at ease, not overly suntanned (so not taped after the FD), definitely taped after the finale IMO. Her speech is different, more assured. She is happy like a person who remembers in the past. not present

Then we have the mags and SM. The 2 articles with the choice of present (dani), past (alysha) and potential future (matilda). Matilda always talk about possibilities, could be. She is not there. Alysha has way too many obstacles for arthur who wish to have fun. He does not want to settle down, they lives miles apart, different lifestyle and alysha is not ready to leave everything behind her, plus she is too emotionally needy for arthur. she wants marriage and he saw how different she is alone and in group. Lets remember that arthur loves his buddies and he want a girl who will have fun with him AND his buddies. Something also gave me clues was arthur talking about his current life "since we cannot be seen in public, I cook a lot". No way alysha is the one. Seen in public, means Auckland for him. Then the "I cook" is not matilda who loves cooking, her ribs and food and cakes (her intro). Maybe even arthur cooking for dani as they have the same taste in food. Confirmed many times on SM.

The bachelor website pointed to dani and matilda (REVLON). The woman's mag gave articles to both. no alysha

Alysha was too needy anyway. She needs a protectof 24/7 and arthur is not ready to take this role. She would be a bit too much high maintenance for him. She screams HUSBAND in fluo letters. She is totally unhappy when she has to share him so no way she would accept him with his buddies!!

At the beginning of the show, everyone was surprised to see that arthur did not jump on each girl as the US or CAN or AU version. It was extremely tame of non kiwis. Everyone said it was the first girlfriend/boyfriend bachelor. Everyone appreciated and respected arthur for not kissing all the girls. Could be because from the start, it was dani and he did not want anybody else but because he was the bachelor, the producers and handlers pushed him to make some move with 2 or 3 girls.

Dani and matilda were closed friend from the very beginning. Matilda showed a personality that do not match arthur. But what is very important (proved on SM last week and F4 rose ceremony). She is extremely loyal with her friends. I never seen a girl on this show, holding hand a girl with a rose in her hand and support another woman at a RC. ever. So matilda knew dani's feelings. Matilda went with the flow but I am not sure she was fully committed. All her ITM says: possibilities, could be, could have. I see a good future. never present.

Dani game a lot of clues on her facebook page. Clean no makeup face (mention in woman's this week that arthur loves her better without makeup). clean food (she follows clean paleo but she is an adpted for over a year of clean food and gym so her lifestyle is not new). the breast cancer involvement (typically F1 and very mature). She loves physical activities. and if I am looking at the FD... who got the most expensive date with yacht and rose petal and spa and fun surfing versus a tame gondola/massage/formal diner (massage that kristie had on her date so nothing special there, no touching either) and a nature see-sight and ANOTHER helico/small plain for alysha (knowing full well she was uncomfortable with which would automatically lead arthur to hold her in his arms as she will need protection so good taping material). Even the doubt dani about accepting to spend the night with arthur in the preview. I wonder if anyone ever doubt she would even say no. They are on top of each other, spent a day kissing and touching and then she would say no? She may explain her reserves yes, say no? never.

I also thought about this FIDJI picture that nobody really acknowledge. If I look at her later ITM and herself on this picture, I see the same suntanned girl. The fact that she was on SM means nothing as every young people are doing it everywhere. Even in "honeymoon", it is only in romance that we see 2 people 24/7 on top of each other. It is the new generation where everyone, more so young people, are posting selfies, using facebook, twitter and instragram. PLUS lets remember that those "kids" got famous all of a sudden. They got a big fan base, are recognized in steets. Of course they are all playing with this temporary fame. Nothing wrong with that. But I did not see anything that pointed one girl in particular.

If I look at arthur suntanned face, I would say alysha was FD #1, dani FD 2 and matilda FD #3. I am pretty convinced he was a gentleman with alysha. She played coy to do not kiss him at first 1:1, no way she will sleep with him knowing that he may do the same with 2 other girls. She will continue to keep this reward on top of his head: if I am F1, you will get the prize (me) but until then. no

Dani being the FD #2. I have no doubt they spent the night together and it was the conclusion of all the physical chemistry. They were attracted from the start and no way I see them hesitating. It is the logical step of 2 people who are already comfortable with each other and moving on as girlfriend/boyfriend. I always felt that dani was very supportive to him during the show and she totally embraced it and was very confident. She never was in a middle of a drama and focused on her "art and dani bubble". He mentioned it several time that he loved strong and confident women, he said dani was very mature for her age (dani's dad) and very driven.

Then matilda came after. Can you imagine a guy who had a great time with a girl he is fancying for a very very long time and jump on matilda who is a very reserved woman, perfect on paper and TV screen, when they are still at the very start of a possible relationship and after one date with few kisses at the prod with this hilarious cat and the 200 circles around and around on this tiny boat (what a boring date for a guy who loves adventures!), they will make it? For me it was always platonic with matilda, always friend zone. it is not because they share laughs that she is the one.

I have no doubt he liked all the F4 girls but what I saw was Dani from the start and them trying to give us smoke to think otherwise. So matilda great on paper who is a role model and perfect and alysha the woman who has so many obstacles (distance, married, country girl) definitely gives some spice in the show. Poppy was a little miracle and a breath of fresh air but the way they edited her, she was never the F1. Please notince her last ITM when she repeats: he knows who he loves. No hesitation. The "I told you" at the F4 RC. I also saw the producers mark in her last interview about the non commitment who is F1. Crystal who is known for her frank straight to the point view did not hesitate: dani. The picture of all the girls with the V, except dani. That picture always bothered me as I hesitated between the V for victory or the II for F2. But considering crystal rooted for dani, the picture was on her facebook, I am seeing a V, therefore a F1 clue.

... because at the end of the day, this is a TV reality show and not a real deal matchmaker in real life outside camera crews. The hundred of hours of taping and edits gave us stories and as usual the real one is blurred among them at the end to keep the public interested.

So yes. Dani was the one for me for tons of reasons and even though matilda and alysha are nice girls, they are not what he is looking for now.

That is how I saw it. Am I certain? no. But that is my analysis of a show full of edits

and this is my last analysis. Lets see wednesday if I was right or totally wrong

Jolena wrote:I've been watching this show ,( liking it a lot) but not following the board here and haven't watched the past few episodes but I did some catching up tonight and got to hometown dates . Can anyone tell me if fantasy overnight dates are this coming Tuesday and when will it be up on YouTube ? TIA ( my pick for  f1 is Matilda).

it is wednesday may 6. it will be an hour for FD and an hour for the finale
they mentioned the after show finale next week too.

dancer33 wrote:

HEA wrote:he crossed his hand behind dani's back to hold him closer and i did not see that with any other girls. the way he hold her on her shoulders i see a couple. they were not posing, they were totally comfortable with each other and he took her with both arms. she was not the one who held him, he was. and for me that is an important detail and this is not a friend gesture IMO it is a "you are my girl" gesture with protection in mine. but we all see with our fan eyes and that is fine with me  

I cannot wait for wednesday. sucks that we do not have a 2 days last shows with after show.

I've been lurking for the duration of the show because I've been interested to see how non-kiwis are interpreting our first Bachelor season. HEA, I think you're gut instinct about Art and Dani is spot on. I would be shocked if he doesn't end up with Dani and I think it's always been Dani since their first date.

If one were to go back and listen to the voiceovers from Art that were recorded before the show had started and watch his first date with Dani, that was real. So much of what we have seen since that point is producer-driven IMO including some of the key scenes with Matilda that people have been agonising over. I could be wrong of course but I'm not a fan of any particular girl and I have over 20 years experience in front of the camera in NZ and AU so I would like to think I'm fairly objective about what I'm watching. Prior to episode 5 when Art went on his first date with Dani his voiceover is as follows - "I'm looking for a girl who shares the same interests as me, someone who has a great sense of adventure, and loves discovering new things." How much clearer can a man be?

How much clearer can a man be? Well, here's two examples:

1) Art tells Matilda face to face on their 2nd date that if she had left the show because of her accident "There goes this WHOLE experience for me".

2) While talking to Matilda's Dad and he tells Matilda's dad face to face that he really, really likes Matilda. Matilda's dad says: "So let's consider it done then?" and Art's response? "Shall we shake on it?"

Cannot get clearer than that to me - especially since the example given is a voice over about Dani. The examples with Matilda are not voice overs these are words coming straight from Art's mouth. What he has said to Matilda, face to face and to Matilda's father face to face far outweighs any voice over or ITM/PI, imo.

Furthermore, from what has been shown on the season, Dani has received the perfect F2 (or even F3) edit: the physical edit.

She not only got the first kiss but her story has been emphasized about her physical connection with Art. Art even says that kissing Dani is just what they do. This ties into the magazine article spread....



What is the focus of this article? A physical connection. That is another point towards a physical edit. Notice that Art talks about Dani's physical looks. He never mentions anything about who she is, but rather she looks gorgeous without makeup. The whole article spread and photos of her are all physical and even the story is about the physical connection.

That is why, for me, based on this physical repetitive edit since their first SQT on the group date in Episode 1 to their first kiss on their single date, it has been heavily emphasized throughout the show (even to the cocktail parties where Art is kissing her), there is little progression at all towards feelings that are deeper from Art's side, what the lead is doing (and I certainly do not see a lead not only having a girl go on a 2on1 date and not get a 2nd date - Dani never got a 2nd date, but also then after HTD, having to take her outside so that she had to cry and want to stay. Not something a lead who is very sure of a F1 would do, imo. And if that is the argument that it was, then that is very cruel to not give Dani a 2nd date and have her cry to stay as well.

Trying to discuss what is left on the cutting floor and edited out as a reason we don't see Art say the same things face to face to Dani as he did Matilda is a waste of time, imo. It is on the cutting floor because it doesn't serve the end result of F1.

I personally can only go by what has been shown on the show and discuss and compare that, not based on what ifs. For me, sleuthing is about looking at what the LEAD is doing/saying and following that rather than just being a fan of someone and trying to support that view. Can these two be one and the same? Yes, certainly. And it is great if that is the case, but it is not always the case.

So far in regards to the magazines, there is more evidence supporting Matilda as F1. And regardless of the articles inside a magazine, when it comes to advertizing, the cover of a magazine far outweighs what is inside -- it is prime location. And Matilda has not only been the only girl who has been featured on the cover with Art by herself (meaning no one from the show also on the cover with them), she has also been front and center for all covers where Dani and Alysha are included.

Arguments that she is the favorite is why she is on the cover and front and center make little sense since they should be selling who the F1 is, not who a potential favorite or next bachelorette candidate may be. Art has already stated he is with his final girl and that he cannot wait to no longer be in secret and that he can seem himself marrying her.

Art was featured with Matilda on the cover of Woman's Day with "The Bachelor's Smitten". "How Matilda won Art's heart".
Art and Matilda's Cover heading:
= About Art's heart.
= About Matilda winning.

The most recent magazine cover has Dani and Art in a small photo insert on the cover (where all 3 girls are the focus, with Matilda in the middle/
Dani and Art's insert/secondary Cover heading:
= About Dani's fantasy coming true.

Therefore for comparison: Art being smitten and Matilda winning Art's heart vs. Dani's fantasy coming true?

Interesting to note that in that headline, both Art and Matilda's names are included. For Dani's heading? Only her name.

IMO, winning Art's heart seem to be the keywords for this season.

It will be exciting to see who goes home tonight: Alysha or Dani, imo. But really, it doesn't matter too much the order as Kristie herself said in an interview... because Art already knew who he wanted (and this corroborated by Poppy as well).

dancer33 wrote:

HEA wrote:he crossed his hand behind dani's back to hold him closer and i did not see that with any other girls. the way he hold her on her shoulders i see a couple. they were not posing, they were totally comfortable with each other and he took her with both arms. she was not the one who held him, he was. and for me that is an important detail and this is not a friend gesture IMO it is a "you are my girl" gesture with protection in mine. but we all see with our fan eyes and that is fine with me  

I cannot wait for wednesday. sucks that we do not have a 2 days last shows with after show.

I've been lurking for the duration of the show because I've been interested to see how non-kiwis are interpreting our first Bachelor season. HEA, I think you're gut instinct about Art and Dani is spot on. I would be shocked if he doesn't end up with Dani and I think it's always been Dani since their first date.

If one were to go back and listen to the voiceovers from Art that were recorded before the show had started and watch his first date with Dani, that was real. So much of what we have seen since that point is producer-driven IMO including some of the key scenes with Matilda that people have been agonising over. I could be wrong of course but I'm not a fan of any particular girl and I have over 20 years experience in front of the camera in NZ and AU so I would like to think I'm fairly objective about what I'm watching. Prior to episode 5 when Art went on his first date with Dani his voiceover is as follows - "I'm looking for a girl who shares the same interests as me, someone who has a great sense of adventure, and loves discovering new things." How much clearer can a man be?

ahem.  I was a bit carried away with my analysis so I wanted to thank you for leaving your lurking corner
20 years is definitely quite some experience and this is exactly what this forum needs: professional who can share an unbiased opinion with a professional expertise.
Thank you. this is much appreciated.
just curious... did you watch the AU seasons? do you think NZ and AU have a different approach with the script? Did you watch US or CAN?

dancer33 ! Thank you for a great first post!

It's wonderful to hear the opinions of those who are in the business!

OMG I am so laughing about the rumors and the "ALL auckland knows who is the F1"!! HAHAHA

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11443505

HEA, that's so funny!

HEA that news article is mad funny!!!

That's what we get when a bunch of teenagers are all over SM spreading the ridiculous rumors

I had no idea that puru was playing the other side! that was funny!
At least the ex lives in europe! hahaha
awwwwwe I want the bachelorette and see 21 clones of arthurs