Bachelor 19 - Chris Soules - Episode 4 - *Spoilers & Sleuthing* - Discussion

sbolduc wrote:

Max64 wrote:

MiniDiva wrote:

Chris is a great guy who is genuinely interested in love and marriage  to include kids.  I think the lady he ends up with will be a very loved and cared for woman in every sense of the word.  

I agree!  I've always liked Chris.  I love that he comes from farming family, I admire their work ethic, because in my opinion, theirs is like no other.  Chris may not be the most charismatic on screen but that doesn't mean he isn't a decent man, and I believe he is there for the right reasons.

I agree I like Chris too, I think he is genuine and I do think he is a decent man. I think that if F1 spoilers are correct he picked a great girl and I do think he is using this show for the right reasons. I just don't think he is a good lead/bachelor, IMO too bland and not coherent enough, absolutely nothing to do with his authenticity.

ITA...I really like Chris and I don't think he's boring. I wish more time could be spent without the crazy girls and those that will never move to Iowa (Britt and Kaitlyn). Chris is a nice sweet guy going on this show to find a wife. I hope we see a love story unfold. please!

cindebugg wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:I think much of the "articulateness" seen in Chris during the 'ette was in response to retakes and cue cards. JMOAA
Both are utilized a lot in this show.

  Yeah, I'm aware the producer's put the she in nanigans.  I just don't buy that TPTB would use the cue cards/retakes for him one season and not use them when he's the lead.  IMO the biggest problem tptb have with Chris is his total inablility to lie or fake it. It's written all over his face and demeanor.

Of course they are using them both seasons, but think about it. 
On the season he is just part of the cast, he is following a storyline. So a card or two or retake is no big deal. He is not the emphasis. As it was he got little screen time.
On the season he is the main, he has to be able to carry the show. If production relies on continuous cue cards, retakes and editing you get what we are getting, a mess in dialogue and flow.  Much of the storyline this season is the ill created female drama.
The only leads I remember hearing that were a mess to work with Emily and Jesse, production would joke they had second grade reading skills and could not follow cues.

cindebugg wrote:

Bet2Win wrote:

MiaHawk wrote:

IA.  Whitney seems to be a take charge personality and Chris seems to be a follower.  He seems to admire her spunk and her ability to adapt.  I think that, regardless of which one he chooses, that he needs someone with a lively personality to counter balance his blandness, someone who is independent yet friendly so they can move to the middle of nowhere and make friends with everyone there, and hopefully someone who isn't interested in long conversations.  His communication skills are horrendous.  

He needs someone that can articulate, seriously, he has difficulty stringing two sentences together.  Now we know why he was the secret admirer.  

 I might agree with you if I hadn't watched Chris have no problem articulating his feelings to not only Andi but taking the lead in the dustups with the guys last season. IMO what we are seeing this season is a Chris who is highly edited combined with a man who weighs his words carefully.  I believe Chris would rather cut off his own hand than to hurt or embarrass these girls.  

As for his blandness, there have been quite a few dull leads,Travis, PLo, Jason,Jake, Ben, Sean and JPG just to name a few.  I don't think choosing bland leads is a fluke.  Once The Bachelor sets foot in the mansion he  becomes a supporting character for the girls drama. 
 
When picking the Bachelorette leads, tptb seem to pick bigger personalities because they aren't going to get a lot of drama with the guys.

Agree he weighs his words carefully, and likes time to process and think before speaking, which this show doesn't really give you. Also, he seems to be trying really hard as you said to be nice to everyone and doesn't know how to handle some of the cray that comes at him (which is a lot). To me that means he's a nice guy who has spent his life interacting with rational, down to earth people, undramatic people. Good qualities to me. It was unfortunate he couldn't find the words with Britt to say "I give Kaitlyn roses because she's fun, authentic and I like her. Next question." But I digress. At least he doesn't sound like a used car salesman spouting canned and meaningless words. I'd rather have the stumbles and fumbles myself.

I've sat through so many Bachelors who I saw absolutely zero appeal in and moreso who I couldn't imagine anyone wanting to end up with. Many have made me almost tune out with the lure of the Bachelorette the only thing keeping me watching. Chris is not one of those and this is not one of those seasons for me. I like him, love his top 3, and find the rest of the girls pretty amusing.

Sprite wrote:

northernviewer wrote:

Max64 wrote:

I agree!  I've always liked Chris.  I love that he comes from farming family, I admire their work ethic, because in my opinion, theirs is like no other.  Chris may not be the most charismatic on screen but that doesn't mean he isn't a decent man, and I believe he is there for the right reasons.

I don't think he's being criticized as a person, many acknowledge that they think he's a decent guy... but that as a lead, he's terrible.  People are losing interest in the show, largely due to the fact that he's plain ol' boring.  They need to put a lot more thought into who they cast as the lead IMO  It's not easy carrying a show as the main "character" and Chris just can't do it.  Ratings are suffering.  

The best solution I ( and many others) think is to end the tradition of recycling contestants.  Enough already... give us some fresh blood

And yet the ratings are holding solid. They went up from last week and the key demographic that they look for is winning the time slot. I think the people who are spoiled and spend time on boards like these and hence, know how the show "works" behind the scenes have way different expectations than the regular TV viewer. Sometimes I think we spend so much time dissecting the minutia of the show that we forget to actual enjoy the show...kind of like looking at impressionist paintings. If you get too close...it just looks like a mess, but, step back and you can enjoy the beauty of it. All my unspoiled friends are really enjoying the show and Chris. They don't find him boring and just see a man overwhelmed and not wanting to hurt anyone. They do think the girls are more wacko than usual because Chris is just too nice.

Not sure why I keep reading that the ratings are bad? They seem quite good. Winning demo for the night, top or near tops in total viewers, one of the most tweeted regularly scheduled shows on tv. Can't see that ABC could want much more from a cheap to make reality show. In this tv landscape nothing is really comparable to prior years and traditional ratings and viewership change more and more each year so ? don't really think anything very negative is happening with ratings this season. I can see there's not much love for the season on this board, but I don't think it's turning into some kind of epic fail for the franchise or anything.

Sprite wrote:

northernviewer wrote:I don't think he's being criticized as a person, many acknowledge that they think he's a decent guy... but that as a lead, he's terrible.  People are losing interest in the show, largely due to the fact that he's plain ol' boring.  They need to put a lot more thought into who they cast as the lead IMO  It's not easy carrying a show as the main "character" and Chris just can't do it.  Ratings are suffering.  

The best solution I ( and many others) think is to end the tradition of recycling contestants.  Enough already... give us some fresh blood

And yet the ratings are holding solid. They went up from last week and the key demographic that they look for is winning the time slot. I think the people who are spoiled and spend time on boards like these and hence, know how the show "works" behind the scenes have way different expectations than the regular TV viewer. Sometimes I think we spend so much time dissecting the minutia of the show that we forget to actual enjoy the show...kind of like looking at impressionist paintings. If you get too close...it just looks like a mess, but, step back and you can enjoy the beauty of it. All my unspoiled friends are really enjoying the show and Chris. They don't find him boring and just see a man overwhelmed and not wanting to hurt anyone. They do think the girls are more wacko than usual because Chris is just too nice.

LOL... I was thinking of Georges Seurat... paintings that are made of "blobs" up close.

Had either studmuffin Arie or Marquel been chosen over Chris, this thread would pretty much look the same. The opinions would be the same, just the posters giving them would vary.

Heck... if an orangutan is cast for the lead, we would still essentially have the same show as the 19 humans so far. All The Bachelor basically does is walk, talk, kiss, shower, lift weights, hold a cocktail glass, hand out roses and listen to a cluster of women say "I wouldn't be here if it wasn't you". The one sporting the most bananas or acting the most bananas wins.

Oh.. and not sleep. You can tell Chris needs it. He is not used to working night shift.

relaxing wrote:

cindebugg wrote:

Bet2Win wrote:

He needs someone that can articulate, seriously, he has difficulty stringing two sentences together.  Now we know why he was the secret admirer.  

 I might agree with you if I hadn't watched Chris have no problem articulating his feelings to not only Andi but taking the lead in the dustups with the guys last season. IMO what we are seeing this season is a Chris who is highly edited combined with a man who weighs his words carefully.  I believe Chris would rather cut off his own hand than to hurt or embarrass these girls.  

As for his blandness, there have been quite a few dull leads,Travis, PLo, Jason,Jake, Ben, Sean and JPG just to name a few.  I don't think choosing bland leads is a fluke.  Once The Bachelor sets foot in the mansion he  becomes a supporting character for the girls drama. 
 
When picking the Bachelorette leads, tptb seem to pick bigger personalities because they aren't going to get a lot of drama with the guys.

 Agree he weighs his words carefully, and likes time to process and think before speaking, which this show doesn't really give you.  Also, he seems to be trying really hard as you said to be nice to everyone and doesn't know how to handle some of the cray that comes at him (which is a lot).  To me that means he's a nice guy who has spent his life interacting with rational, down to earth people, undramatic people.  Good qualities to me.  It was unfortunate he couldn't find the words with Britt to say "I give Kaitlyn roses because she's fun, authentic and I like her.  Next question."    But I digress.  At least he doesn't sound like a used car salesman spouting canned and meaningless words.  I'd rather have the stumbles and fumbles myself.

I've sat through so many Bachelors who I saw absolutely zero appeal in and moreso who I couldn't imagine anyone wanting to end up with.  Many have made me almost tune out with the lure of the Bachelorette the only thing keeping me watching.  Chris is not one of those and this is not one of those seasons for me.  I like him, love his top 3, and find the rest of the girls pretty amusing.

I enjoy Chris!

This was definitely not an episode designed to advance his relationships, if you ask me; this was all about creating awkward encounters, rejections, jealousy, and drama.

Our local TV station aired an interview they conducted with Chris and the girls last October when the mud race was filmed. Realizing how much time that must have taken, in addition to the ITMs we saw, travel, etc., and having an activity not exactly conductive to conversation, the women on that "date" basically spent NO time with Chris.

JBF wrote:

Sprite wrote:

northernviewer wrote:I don't think he's being criticized as a person, many acknowledge that they think he's a decent guy... but that as a lead, he's terrible.  People are losing interest in the show, largely due to the fact that he's plain ol' boring.  They need to put a lot more thought into who they cast as the lead IMO  It's not easy carrying a show as the main "character" and Chris just can't do it.  Ratings are suffering.  

The best solution I ( and many others) think is to end the tradition of recycling contestants.  Enough already... give us some fresh blood

And yet the ratings are holding solid. They went up from last week and the key demographic that they look for is winning the time slot. I think the people who are spoiled and spend time on boards like these and hence, know how the show "works" behind the scenes have way different expectations than the regular TV viewer. Sometimes I think we spend so much time dissecting the minutia of the show that we forget to actual enjoy the show...kind of like looking at impressionist paintings. If you get too close...it just looks like a mess, but, step back and you can enjoy the beauty of it. All my unspoiled friends are really enjoying the show and Chris. They don't find him boring and just see a man overwhelmed and not wanting to hurt anyone. They do think the girls are more wacko than usual because Chris is just too nice.

LOL... I was thinking of Georges Seurat... paintings that are made of "blobs" up close.

Had either studmuffin Arie or Marquel been chosen over Chris, this thread would pretty much look the same. The opinions would be the same, just the posters giving them would vary.

Heck... if an orangutan is cast for the lead, we would still essentially have the same show as the 19 humans so far. All The Bachelor basically does is walk, talk, kiss, shower, lift weights, hold a cocktail glass, hand out roses and listen to a cluster of women say "I wouldn't be here if it wasn't you". The one sporting the most bananas or acting the most bananas wins.

Oh.. and not sleep. You can tell Chris needs it. He is not used to working night shift.

I had to laugh at the bolded because it is so true yet every season people are complaining that the lead is boring or fake...or both!

We have the same stuff every season...just the characters change. There is a drunk, somebody fake that others don't like, somebody who is way over the top, the crier, the one who falls in the friend zone, the one that uses sex, one who is not there for the right reasons, the accuser who questions the lead, the awkward one....I could go on and on. It doesn't really matter. We all like different things. For all of those that don't like Chris, there are others who do.

IMO it doesn't really matter because we don't know the ending and that usually affects how we end up feeling about the show. I remember all the flap about Ashley and Bentley and Ben during her season. All is now forgiven because she picked JP and they are now happily married. Sean was a yawn for some, but, he is still the most popular Bachelor by far. Chris is no different. Personally I find him kind of refreshing in that he just has no poker face and when he is trying to follow a script and do what he is supposed to...he is a mess, but, when he is being himself, he is funny and self depricating. They all have to jump through hoops...all of them. That is just the way the show works. They have to spew out the same stuff, yet every season people are jumping on them for saying the stuff we all know they will have to say....with as you said, very little sleep and curve balls coming at them right and left.

I'm staying tuned. I want to see the ending...the longterm ending and then I can really say whether he was a good lead or not. I'm pretty hopeful at this point.

I read through this thread thinking there might be a discussion on why the tent scenes with Kaitlyn were cut. Is it in a different thread? TIA. It looked like Kelsey was referring to that when she told Chris she knew what he did. That is the kind of drama TPTB love, so why cut it? Seems like the only reason would be to protect Kaitlyn? perhaps as the next 'ette? Surprised they did that though.

grace8136 wrote:I read through this thread thinking there might be a discussion on why the tent scenes with Kaitlyn were cut. Is it in a different thread? TIA. It looked like Kelsey was referring to that when she told Chris she knew what he did. That is the kind of drama TPTB love, so why cut it? Seems like the only reason would be to protect Kaitlyn? perhaps as the next 'ette? Surprised they did that though.

*chuckle chuckle* Don't get me started. I kinda-sorta-kinda ventured into that territory in "general discussions".

Let's just say that he told the Popsugar interviewer that the camping date was his personal "favorite", even though his sisters and three of the spoiled "top 4" ladies were not on it.

... and Britt was MIGHTY curious about what was going on there as well.

On another note here... Chris' "I'm looking for a wife" speech just didn't pack the same "ooomph" as Pookie's Episode Four Speech last season... after Eric Hill mispronounced her nickname as "poker".

JBF wrote:

grace8136 wrote:I read through this thread thinking there might be a discussion on why the tent scenes with Kaitlyn were cut. Is it in a different thread? TIA. It looked like Kelsey was referring to that when she told Chris she knew what he did. That is the kind of drama TPTB love, so why cut it? Seems like the only reason would be to protect Kaitlyn? perhaps as the next 'ette? Surprised they did that though.

*chuckle chuckle* Don't get me started. I kinda-sorta-kinda ventured into that territory in "general discussions".

Let's just say that he told the Popsugar interviewer that the camping date was his personal "favorite", even though his sisters and three of the spoiled "top 4" ladies were not on it.

... and Britt was MIGHTY curious about what was going on there as well.

On another note here... Chris' "I'm looking for a wife" speech just didn't pack the same "ooomph" as Pookie's Episode Four Speech last season... after Eric Hill mispronounced her nickname as "poker".

I think she is in the running for bachelorette, so they didn't want to show her get personal alone time with Chris. Plus her tent mate was Megan who can't remember a train of thought, so they are covered there too.

I honestly can't read Chris and his choice so far this season. I saw a special spark from the beginning with JPG and Nikki and Sean and Cat, but at different times he seems really into Kaitlyn, has no problem with Whitney's aggressive pursuit and is quietly choosing to seek out and spend time with Becca. The only one I see him losing enthusiasm for is Britt.

Many posters thought Chris Siegfried was in the running for Bachelor in Desiree's season too, despite a lot of curious editing in his scenes.

I'm not going to debate over "who I think is F1"... since this show is quite famous for surprises. Yet I am very... suspicious... about Kaitlyn's position this season. If I had to pick a prospective 'ette at this stage, I would say Becca. 

Now... he does say on his blog: "Becca and I had a great chat and felt an instant connection, and that was the moment I knew she was going to be around for a long time. Spoiler? Stay tuned."

The words "long time" could mean the duration of the show (F2 or 3 and potential 'ette) or post-show (F1), depending on how you look at it. (Murasaki... *hint hint*.. where are you?)