Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion #3

Alanna wrote:

Sprite wrote:

Diana wrote:Poor girl looks rough in that picture.

Yes. Also in the pictures from the interview...to me she again looks manic...kind of like she did at the premier. As if she is trying too hard to put up a front. No doubt this is rough on her. To me she is always trying so hard to be perfect...strong...blah, blah, blah. It must be exhausting and what makes her come across as fake. Get real. Nobody on this green earth is perfect...Nobody! Everyone has insecurities....everyone! Some are just better at hiding it than others. The sooner she realises that, the happier she will be.

Yeah, I agree but I think it's just her perfectionist tendencies and she must be SO humiliated publicly and heartbroken privately over this whole thing. IA she looks totally pained in that picture but I think it's for the best that she's soldiering on and realizing that Josh will be coming back never and she needs to move on.

I actually feel very sorry for Andi for this reason. I used to try to be perfect too and it is not easy or healthy. I partially blame daddy Hy. Let your girl learn and grow and appreciate herself for being human. No human is perfect ever.

Personally, I would love to see Andi get some counseling for this, life is so much easier when you stop making it harder on yourself.

I do think Andi is in a complete state of flux and I hope someone in her life actually cares about her enough to help her learn from this and really find her happy and learn to let herself be "unperfect", but happy.

From personal experience, I know I soldiered through too many things, and unfortunately for me my body when I was 33 gave up on me. All my internalized stress and strides to get through it and be strong led to systemic illness. That is a hard block to meet. I wish for Andi that she can get help to not end up like this.

stuckinsc wrote:

Alanna wrote:

Sprite wrote:

Yes. Also in the pictures from the interview...to me she again looks manic...kind of like she did at the premier. As if she is trying too hard to put up a front. No doubt this is rough on her. To me she is always trying so hard to be perfect...strong...blah, blah, blah. It must be exhausting and what makes her come across as fake. Get real. Nobody on this green earth is perfect...Nobody! Everyone has insecurities....everyone! Some are just better at hiding it than others. The sooner she realises that, the happier she will be.

Yeah, I agree but I think it's just her perfectionist tendencies and she must be SO humiliated publicly and heartbroken privately over this whole thing. IA she looks totally pained in that picture but I think it's for the best that she's soldiering on and realizing that Josh will be coming back never and she needs to move on.

I actually feel very sorry for Andi for this reason.  I used to try to be perfect too and it is not easy or healthy.  I partially blame daddy Hy.  Let your girl learn and grow and appreciate herself for being human.  No human is perfect ever.

Personally, I would love to see Andi get some counseling for this, life is so much easier when you stop making it harder on yourself.  

I do think Andi is in a complete state of flux and I hope someone in her life actually cares about her enough to help her learn from this and really find her happy and learn to let herself be "unperfect", but happy.

From personal experience, I know I soldiered through too many things, and unfortunately for me my body when I was 33 gave up on me.  All my internalized stress and strides to get through it and be strong led to systemic illness.  That is a hard block to meet.  I wish for Andi that she can get help to not end up like this.

Yes to all Stuck. I was a perfectionist when I was younger as well. Thankfully I had an epiphany in my mid twenties and realised that I can't be perfect and nobody else is either...even if it seems like it. I helped me relaxed and become so much more confident. Nobody these days thinks I'm shy and quiet! The difference I think, I listened when other people criticised...not that I necessarily liked it...but, after the anger/hurt, I did process it and wonder why they thought the way they did and what I could do to change things....and then did. So far, Andi doesn't seem to have listened to anyone...other than those that keep telling her how fabulous she is. I hope for her sake that that changes.

Sprite wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Alanna wrote:
Yeah, I agree but I think it's just her perfectionist tendencies and she must be SO humiliated publicly and heartbroken privately over this whole thing. IA she looks totally pained in that picture but I think it's for the best that she's soldiering on and realizing that Josh will be coming back never and she needs to move on.

I actually feel very sorry for Andi for this reason.  I used to try to be perfect too and it is not easy or healthy.  I partially blame daddy Hy.  Let your girl learn and grow and appreciate herself for being human.  No human is perfect ever.

Personally, I would love to see Andi get some counseling for this, life is so much easier when you stop making it harder on yourself.  

I do think Andi is in a complete state of flux and I hope someone in her life actually cares about her enough to help her learn from this and really find her happy and learn to let herself be "unperfect", but happy.

From personal experience, I know I soldiered through too many things, and unfortunately for me my body when I was 33 gave up on me.  All my internalized stress and strides to get through it and be strong led to systemic illness.  That is a hard block to meet.  I wish for Andi that she can get help to not end up like this.

Yes to all Stuck. I was a perfectionist when I was younger as well. Thankfully I had an epiphany in my mid twenties and realised that I can't be perfect and nobody else is either...even if it seems like it. I helped me relaxed and become so much more confident. Nobody these days thinks I'm shy and quiet! The difference I think, I listened when other people criticised...not that I necessarily liked it...but, after the anger/hurt, I did process it and wonder why they thought the way they did and what I could do to change things....and then did. So far, Andi doesn't seem to have listened to anyone...other than those that keep telling her how fabulous she is. I hope for her sake that that changes.

I really put this back on her parents. To me they have helped create this and from what I have seen they seem to encourage her to ignore opinions and words that don't match theirs. I remember with JPG how harsh Hy was. Yet when his princess was in the same spot, he contradicted himself. Charming.

stuckinsc wrote:

Sprite wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

I actually feel very sorry for Andi for this reason.  I used to try to be perfect too and it is not easy or healthy.  I partially blame daddy Hy.  Let your girl learn and grow and appreciate herself for being human.  No human is perfect ever.

Personally, I would love to see Andi get some counseling for this, life is so much easier when you stop making it harder on yourself.  

I do think Andi is in a complete state of flux and I hope someone in her life actually cares about her enough to help her learn from this and really find her happy and learn to let herself be "unperfect", but happy.

From personal experience, I know I soldiered through too many things, and unfortunately for me my body when I was 33 gave up on me.  All my internalized stress and strides to get through it and be strong led to systemic illness.  That is a hard block to meet.  I wish for Andi that she can get help to not end up like this.

Yes to all Stuck. I was a perfectionist when I was younger as well. Thankfully I had an epiphany in my mid twenties and realised that I can't be perfect and nobody else is either...even if it seems like it. I helped me relaxed and become so much more confident. Nobody these days thinks I'm shy and quiet! The difference I think, I listened when other people criticised...not that I necessarily liked it...but, after the anger/hurt, I did process it and wonder why they thought the way they did and what I could do to change things....and then did. So far, Andi doesn't seem to have listened to anyone...other than those that keep telling her how fabulous she is. I hope for her sake that that changes.

I really put this back on her parents.  To me they have helped create this and from what I have seen they seem to encourage her to ignore opinions and words that don't match theirs.  I remember with JPG how harsh Hy was.  Yet when his princess was in the same spot, he contradicted himself.  Charming.

 You both make great points however it's possible that Andi's time on tv to the present has reinforced her view of self rather than promoted a need for self reflection. 

Examples:
- she was rewarded with the role of Bachelorette after giving JPG a list of his faults/criticizing him at length. (Much different break up style than Sharleen). That brought her a Bachelorette pay check and lots of opportunities..
- Nikki remained loyal to Andi irregardless of what Andi publicly said about JPG.  No need to filter.
- she was sold as the "lawyer" Bachelorette and when she quit law many fans didn't blink.  That's good for her "personal" brand.
- the fan fav guy was the one that proposed to her; the only one in her final 3 who never proposed before or told another woman he loved her and meant it.  She was special to him compared to his previous relationships and will historically always be these firsts even though they broke up.  Her "type" committed with a proposal.
- her parents likely told her she could do/be whatever she wants in life and that's what she is doing career wise. I mean, if an ordinary Jane sewed a red carpet dress on a plane and said it cost $15 I doubt it would interest anyone or possibly launch a new career.  Her celebrity could be the gift that keeps on giving.  No need to change. 

I could see her continuing to stay the course.  Despite one of her wins, her engagement, not lasting, overall she has been able to "retire" at 27 from a demanding entry level job and replace it with a fan base, party invites, freebies, and perhaps an even higher paying job with fewer work hours.  All this without changing who she is personality-wise.

notarose wrote:

 You both make great points however it's possible that Andi's time on tv to the present has reinforced her view of self rather than promoted a need for self reflection. 

Examples:
- she was rewarded with the role of Bachelorette after giving JPG a list of his faults/criticizing him at length. (Much different break up style than Sharleen). That brought her a Bachelorette pay check and lots of opportunities..
- Nikki remained loyal to Andi irregardless of what Andi publicly said about JPG.  No need to filter.
- she was sold as the "lawyer" Bachelorette and when she quit law many fans didn't blink.  That's good for her "personal" brand.
- the fan fav guy was the one that proposed to her; the only one in her final 3 who never proposed before or told another woman he loved her and meant it.  She was special to him compared to his previous relationships and will historically always be these firsts even though they broke up.  Her "type" committed with a proposal.
- her parents likely told her she could do/be whatever she wants in life and that's what she is doing career wise. I mean, if an ordinary Jane sewed a red carpet dress on a plane and said it cost $15 I doubt it would interest anyone or possibly launch a new career.  Her celebrity could be the gift that keeps on giving.  No need to change. 

I could see her continuing to stay the course.  Despite one of her wins, her engagement, not lasting, overall she has been able to "retire" at 27 from a demanding entry level job and replace it with a fan base, party invites, freebies, and perhaps an even higher paying job with fewer work hours.  All this without changing who she is personality-wise.

You saved me a lot of typing - thank you!

Given that MeandI is so concerned about "appearances" and having perfectionist tendencies mentioned by other posters, I was surprised she didn't strive to be viewed as a loving & considerate daughter-in-law to be. MM was so publicly excited to embrace MeAndI and welcome her into the Murray family yet that was never returned. Allowing the very public spectacle of Josh cutting off ties with his family did nothing to endear MeandI to the viewers. Maybe it was more important for her to be viewed as in control of the relationship and to show she was the number one woman in Josh's life?

I do think MeandI had feelings for Josh and seemed to be in love with the idea of a perfect relationship as a result of being the perfect Bachelorette. The real life Josh just couldn't or wouldn't be shaped into MeandI's idea of perfect. IMHO.

FLChica wrote:I do think MeandI had  feelings for Josh and seemed to be in love with the idea of a perfect relationship as a result of being the perfect Bachelorette.  The real life Josh just couldn't or wouldn't be shaped into MeandI's idea of perfect.  IMHO.

You summed up this whole debacle quite perfectly.

I know its the trashiest of the trash but I had to when I read on Celeb Dirty Laundry that Andi supposedly contacted the farmer after he finished filming and said she made a mistake in not choosing him and wanted another chance.

KB_Mom wrote:I know its the trashiest of the trash but I had to when I read on Celeb Dirty Laundry that Andi supposedly contacted the farmer after he finished filming and said she made a mistake in not choosing him and wanted another chance.

How do these people sleep at night with the lies they print?

The problem is they sometimes, it may not be often, but it does happen, come up with a nugget of truth.

notarose wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Sprite wrote:

Yes to all Stuck. I was a perfectionist when I was younger as well. Thankfully I had an epiphany in my mid twenties and realised that I can't be perfect and nobody else is either...even if it seems like it. I helped me relaxed and become so much more confident. Nobody these days thinks I'm shy and quiet! The difference I think, I listened when other people criticised...not that I necessarily liked it...but, after the anger/hurt, I did process it and wonder why they thought the way they did and what I could do to change things....and then did. So far, Andi doesn't seem to have listened to anyone...other than those that keep telling her how fabulous she is. I hope for her sake that that changes.

I really put this back on her parents.  To me they have helped create this and from what I have seen they seem to encourage her to ignore opinions and words that don't match theirs.  I remember with JPG how harsh Hy was.  Yet when his princess was in the same spot, he contradicted himself.  Charming.

 You both make great points however it's possible that Andi's time on tv to the present has reinforced her view of self rather than promoted a need for self reflection. 

Examples:
- she was rewarded with the role of Bachelorette after giving JPG a list of his faults/criticizing him at length. (Much different break up style than Sharleen). That brought her a Bachelorette pay check and lots of opportunities..
- Nikki remained loyal to Andi irregardless of what Andi publicly said about JPG.  No need to filter.
- she was sold as the "lawyer" Bachelorette and when she quit law many fans didn't blink.  That's good for her "personal" brand.
- the fan fav guy was the one that proposed to her; the only one in her final 3 who never proposed before or told another woman he loved her and meant it.  She was special to him compared to his previous relationships and will historically always be these firsts even though they broke up.  Her "type" committed with a proposal.
- her parents likely told her she could do/be whatever she wants in life and that's what she is doing career wise. I mean, if an ordinary Jane sewed a red carpet dress on a plane and said it cost $15 I doubt it would interest anyone or possibly launch a new career.  Her celebrity could be the gift that keeps on giving.  No need to change. 

I could see her continuing to stay the course.  Despite one of her wins, her engagement, not lasting, overall she has been able to "retire" at 27 from a demanding entry level job and replace it with a fan base, party invites, freebies, and perhaps an even higher paying job with fewer work hours.  All this without changing who she is personality-wise.

Good points, not a rose, but that could only take Andi so far. I don't see her being able to ride those coattails forever.

notarose wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Sprite wrote:

Yes to all Stuck. I was a perfectionist when I was younger as well. Thankfully I had an epiphany in my mid twenties and realised that I can't be perfect and nobody else is either...even if it seems like it. I helped me relaxed and become so much more confident. Nobody these days thinks I'm shy and quiet! The difference I think, I listened when other people criticised...not that I necessarily liked it...but, after the anger/hurt, I did process it and wonder why they thought the way they did and what I could do to change things....and then did. So far, Andi doesn't seem to have listened to anyone...other than those that keep telling her how fabulous she is. I hope for her sake that that changes.

I really put this back on her parents.  To me they have helped create this and from what I have seen they seem to encourage her to ignore opinions and words that don't match theirs.  I remember with JPG how harsh Hy was.  Yet when his princess was in the same spot, he contradicted himself.  Charming.

 You both make great points however it's possible that Andi's time on tv to the present has reinforced her view of self rather than promoted a need for self reflection. 

Examples:
- she was rewarded with the role of Bachelorette after giving JPG a list of his faults/criticizing him at length. (Much different break up style than Sharleen). That brought her a Bachelorette pay check and lots of opportunities..
- Nikki remained loyal to Andi irregardless of what Andi publicly said about JPG.  No need to filter.
- she was sold as the "lawyer" Bachelorette and when she quit law many fans didn't blink.  That's good for her "personal" brand.
- the fan fav guy was the one that proposed to her; the only one in her final 3 who never proposed before or told another woman he loved her and meant it.  She was special to him compared to his previous relationships and will historically always be these firsts even though they broke up.  Her "type" committed with a proposal.
- her parents likely told her she could do/be whatever she wants in life and that's what she is doing career wise. I mean, if an ordinary Jane sewed a red carpet dress on a plane and said it cost $15 I doubt it would interest anyone or possibly launch a new career.  Her celebrity could be the gift that keeps on giving.  No need to change. 

I could see her continuing to stay the course.  Despite one of her wins, her engagement, not lasting, overall she has been able to "retire" at 27 from a demanding entry level job and replace it with a fan base, party invites, freebies, and perhaps an even higher paying job with fewer work hours.  All this without changing who she is personality-wise.

You may be right, but, only up to a point. Fans are fickle and she will be old news soon enough. Look at the other people from this show who have have remained in the fold...mostly it is the successful couples...Trista/Ryan, Ashley/JP, Jason/Molly and their golden boy Sean with Cat. Yes, MM, Chris B, and a few other singles stay on the radar...but, because they give good TV. What does Andi give?...squat other than grumpy cat. A few have become famous on TV...Dr. Travis Stork, Ali, Jillian and Des now is branching into bridal wear. All of these people worked their butts off and used the talents they had. Andi seems to think it will be handed to her on a silver platter just because she was the Bette. I have seen absolutely nothing in her designs thus far to show me she has any talent. She basically copied an iconic T-shirt and slightly changed the logo...not exactly clever. Same with the dress at the premier. It was basically a draped fabric, the design which I have been seeing since the 70's. Fashion is a tough business and you get criticised all the time. Flops are typical. Since she doesn't seem to like criticism and comes off as being better than everyone else, I can't see that ending well unless she has a major attitude change. As always, time will tell...

The only job/show I could see MEandI doing and enjoying is RHOA. She needs to find a husband for that first.