Bachelor 19 - Chris Soules - FD- LCD - FRC - F1/2/3 - *Spoilers & Sleuthing* - Discussion

Litta123 wrote:When I was taking caps I noticed this.

Still working on how to best explain what I think I have a handle on but ...

Don't try to figure out where the sun is because unless the earth's orbit has changed and no one knows about it, the sun's position is known. On that date the zenith is 73.274 degrees. If you pick a time that's halfway between sunrise and sunset (which would be 11:53 AM for that day in IA) the sun would be due south and cast shadows due north. It would be exactly 73.274 degrees above the horizon if looking due south.

Now because I think it was still foggy at 11:53 AM that day there probably weren't any shadows cast - not until later. As you go later in the day the sun moves more south-west and the shadows would move more north-east. So that image above seems to me to represent a setup where the camera is to the north of the limo and the sun is south of the limo so if the limo is driving forward, it's heading east.

The confusing thing about this is that the images of Whitney in a limo show the sun is coming from the driver's side towards the passenger's side which means in that image the limo is heading west.

I don't know what that means but knowing that the producers have photo shopped FRC images before (remember the blue dress on Jason's season?) they are capable of any sort of tricks to confuse us.

I'm bringing this up again because I genuinely think it seems illogical. I really don't think they'd have the exterior limo shot with the girl in the limo.

lurker11 wrote:I'm bringing this up again because I genuinely think it seems illogical. I really don't think they'd have the exterior limo shot with the girl in the limo.

That's a good possibility. Since the setup for an actual FRC would have cameras positioned to catch CH welcoming the F[whatever] girl and sending her down to Chris, and other cameras at the FRC location to film the FRC it makes some sense that they wouldn't waste a cameraman and a camera just to get a fluff shot of a limo driving in - especially since you can't tell from the exterior shot if there's anyone in the limo (other than the driver) because the windows are tinted. They could easily get a shot of the F1 limo driving away - empty - and splice it into arrival footage figuring no one would notice that shadows don't match.

This could be from when the limo is picking up one of them and hasn't picked them up yet. I appreciate all your investigations, but this literally could be from any moment. My question is why does Whitney look upset in the limo? Well, perhaps they are both apprehensive. I am speculating Becca doesn't want a proposal. We know Whitney does want one. Chris loves both women. But who can he NOT live without? I think this will be a very romantic finale no matter what happens. I don't believe that all of them are brokenhearted at the end. Definitely one will be. I think when Chris decides...he will fully commit his heart, mind, and body to his F1. Although, I think he isn't good enough for either of them. He's seems like a decent, humble, and sweet guy. I hope whomever he chooses is someone who will fight tooth and nail to make it work in the real world.

tennischick80 wrote:This could be from when the limo is picking up one of them and hasn't picked them up yet. I appreciate all your investigations, but this literally could be from any moment. My question is why does Whitney look upset in the limo? Well, perhaps they are both apprehensive. I am speculating Becca doesn't want a proposal. We know Whitney does want one. Chris loves both women. But who can he NOT live without? I think this will be a very romantic finale no matter what happens. I don't believe that all of them are brokenhearted at the end. Definitely one will be. I think when Chris decides...he will fully commit his heart, mind, and body to his F1. Although, I think he isn't good enough for either of them. He's seems like a decent, humble, and sweet guy. I hope whomever he chooses is someone who will fight tooth and nail to make it work in the real world.

Chris does not love both women IMO. He said it outright last week at FS dates that he wasn't ready to say he loved Whitney. The subject was not brought up on Beccas part but all of the decision making over keeping her last week tells me that he does. My thought is he is conflicted on how to keep B and keep the show happy. He knows she isn't ready for a proposal but knows the pressure of the show and his family to find a wife. JMO

Lucas15 wrote:

lurker11 wrote:I'm bringing this up again because I genuinely think it seems illogical. I really don't think they'd have the exterior limo shot with the girl in the limo.

That's a good possibility. Since the setup for an actual FRC would have cameras positioned to catch CH welcoming the F[whatever] girl and sending her down to Chris, and other cameras at the FRC location to film the FRC it makes some sense that they wouldn't waste a cameraman and a camera just to get a fluff shot of a limo driving in - especially since you can't tell from the exterior shot if there's anyone in the limo (other than the driver) because the windows are tinted. They could easily get a shot of the F1 limo driving away - empty - and splice it into arrival footage figuring no one would notice that shadows don't match.

They underestimate the sleuthers here.

Lucas15 wrote:

Litta123 wrote:When I was taking caps I noticed this.

Still working on how to best explain what I think I have a handle on but ...

Don't try to figure out where the sun is because unless the earth's orbit has changed and no one knows about it, the sun's position is known. On that date the zenith is 73.274 degrees. If you pick a time that's halfway between sunrise and sunset (which would be 11:53 AM for that day in IA) the sun would be due south and cast shadows due north. It would be exactly 73.274 degrees above the horizon if looking due south.

Now because I think it was still foggy at 11:53 AM that day there probably weren't any shadows cast - not until later. As you go later in the day the sun moves more south-west and the shadows would move more north-east. So that image above seems to me to represent a setup where the camera is to the north of the limo and the sun is south of the limo so if the limo is driving forward, it's heading east.

The confusing thing about this is that the images of Whitney in a limo show the sun is coming from the driver's side towards the passenger's side which means in that image the limo is heading west.

I don't know what that means but knowing that the producers have photo shopped FRC images before (remember the blue dress on Jason's season?) they are capable of any sort of tricks to confuse us.

About the exterior limo pics:

The above pic has a fairly long pole shadow that angles to the left. Not certain but I think this angle indicates near sunset.  I doubt the shadow is crossing the road so that would mean both pole and shadow are on the left of the road. The road is single-lane so it would be near Chris' parents farm or somewhere after leaving the main highway. 

 Contrast this to the other full length limo pic which has a short 90 degree shadow. (not pictured above) IMO that pic would be near noon. That doesn't jive with fog so if it was foggy, or overcast, there would need to some cloud break. 

This season they could show Chris traveling from his farm to his parents in a limo. Perhaps one of the limo pics is of him.

Could the GMA preview for Becca be put in the no discussion thread?

Litta123 wrote:Mtnlvr, here's what it means to me. I'll concede that it was foggy in the morning...so the likelihood of seeing a telephone pole's shadow in the morning is near 0%.

If my cases are correct, then my first limo cap above is showing a limo traveling east, which would be AWAY from the FRC. Who drives away from the FRC? Someone who has been rejected (or someone who doesn't accept the proposal, but this has never happened...right?) Since the shadow's angle is more acute to the direction of the road (verses perpendicular), I believe it would be created by the sun being further west than south. See Lucas's figure. The sun would be moving left in his diagram.

Thus, I am assuming this cap is made later in the afternoon. If we believe Whitney is the one arriving later in the afternoon, then this implies to me that Whitney is leaving the FRC in a limo...not staying with Chris...not engaged. If Becca did leave because she couldn't make up her mind, then at this point my interpretation is that Chris is engaged to neither.

This could be supported by this cap where Chris is crying (see below). He says more or less, "This is not what I want, but it's the reality." I noticed the curtains to the left of the cap. To me, they look like they could possibly come from the mansion. I have plenty of caps from the mansion with similar patterns. The wall color is also consistent with the mansion.

It's a possible theory. Becca may have wanted to continue, but not get engaged. Chris has said he's working with the one he loves to make a relationship in the real world. DWTS fits in nicely with a relationship with Becca.

Is this right? I have no idea, but it seems possible to me based on how I'm seeing the caps at the moment. If I'm wrong, no big deal...and I'll be learning how to knit.

i just want to pop up to give you :alltens: Litta..and count me in the knitting circle too...

notarose wrote:The above pic has a fairly long pole shadow that angles to the left. Not certain but I think this angle indicates near sunset.

I agree with this analysis and your conclusion.

After a lot of thought I have decided that I have to base my opinions on scientific evidence because science is what it is with little guess work. I've looked at as many different weather data sites and the only site that gives specific hour by hour data is Weather Underground (the link is hot to the site with the data) and from past experiences with weather data I have a high degree of confidence in Weather Underground. The weather data for November 22, 2014 shows that it was foggy from sunrise until 12:15 PM, then overcast until 1:55 PM and finally clear skies at 2:35 PM. It did turn cloudy again late in the day but only after sunset at 4:39 PM.

The sun's zenith for that day in Lamont, IA was 73.274 degrees and it was due south at 11:53 AM. As the day progressed the sun moved more and more towards the south west. Because of where the sun was, sunlight would be coming from the south / south-west and shine towards the north / north-east and shadows cast by the sun will be to the north / north-east of the object casting the shadow. No direct hard shadows would be cast until the fog burned off and the skies cleared, about 2:30 PM but certainly not before 2:00 PM.

The picture of Whitney:



We know Whitney is in this limo because we can see that she is. It shows clear sunlight creating hard shadows (note especially how the sun is blocked by her left shoulder to create a shadow on the car seat). The light in the rear windows is blue consistent with blue skies. This picture had to have been taken after 2:30 PM and because the sun is south and the shadows are to the north, the car has to be traveling to the west.

The picture of the limo:



I don't know if anyone other than the driver is actually in the limo because I can't see anyone else. It appears that the sun is out (although I can't see the sky to see if it's blue). The sun is still in the south / south-west so the shadows we see are to the north / north-east. Especially the shadow cast by the telephone pole shows an angle relative to the direction of travel so which I believe is consistent with an image taken later in the day with the sun low in the south-western sky. The car is traveling generally east and the photographer is north of the car, looking generally south.

The picture of Becca:



We haven't really talked about this but we know Becca is in the limo because we can see her. I can't see any sharp shadows or direct sunlight in this shot (nor in some similar ones either) but I can see that her face is well illuminated - her forehead, nose and chin; her cheek is darker so there's less light falling on her cheek than on her nose forehead and chin. In the rear window of the limo I can see light but no tinge of blue. The lighting is consistent with the weather conditions prior to 2:30 PM when the sun came out. Though diffused the light is striking Becca's face from her right (our left in the image) and fully illuminating her face so I believe the light source is to our left but that makes south also to our left which means the limo is traveling generally east.

What this all means is going to be subject to each of our opinions but strictly from a scientific standpoint, IMHO this is an accurate interpretation.

I know we're also looking for the "money shot" to be in the sunset, but with the FRC indoors this season, is that really what we're looking for?

One money shot that I loved was Jason snd Melissa's .. It was taken after the FRC .. Wrapped around each other .. Standing at the edge  of the pool .. The sun set behind them