The Bachelorette Australia - Sam Frost - Season 1 - Social Media - Media - *Spoilers - Sleuthing*

To me Richie vs. Sasha vs. Will they are all men. Maybe from the first impression I wouldn't describe Will as a full-grown, despite the age, and it has nothing to do with the physicality, rather with the lifestyle and certain choices and behavior. But I do make a distinction between Richie and Sasha in terms of the attitude... and Sasha to me is a manly man because it seems like his "childish wonder" is lost - and it's all straight to the business, while Richie demonstrates to still have that "lightness" in him... which influences on his appearance, boyish look, and it's something that some men carry on in their 40's or they never lose. And it's up to their partners and people they interact with to determine whether that's a "quality" or a "flaw".

And sometimes the "beard" does the trick.
But while Alex and Sasha appear as manly man with their look, I find Alex still boyish in comparison.
At the end nobody is more of a man than the other because of their exterior... and their choices and actions will speak of their "worth".

I may be misunderstood but my initial post was that most often, alphas are always referred to as men. I have never seen Ben Z or someone like Sasha referred to as a boy. Even if Sasha was a douche and not a good person or egotistical, no one would refer to him as a boy. That says it all to me that this is based on physical appearance more than anything else.

So how one defines "man" still doesn't change that the fact is that most viewers view those who are more masculine in physical appearance as "men" and I have yet to see one person post about Richie or even Des's Chris when he was on her season as "Such a MAN!!" That to me is telling... no matter how one defines "man" at the end of the day... this show reveals that it is primarily defined by alphas/masculine definitions.

I define a man by the content of his character. Whether he is alpha or not.

Again, as posted before, I see BOTH as men. But rarely is a non-alpha referred to as a "man".

....that thoughtful drawing Sasha did for Sam it shows me, he is still in touch with that romantic boy side of him,... but I guess he is too " the straight to the business man" when he is not shy about it, and frames it and all!

@marysegap I agree. I was surprised how nonchalant he was about it all, although it was a lot of sentimental exposure to do something like that. I found that gift amazing. He drew a picture of the dress she was wearing when they first kissed.

I wonder if at some point down the line he ends up saying the L-word. I find it hard to read him (except sometimes when he is half-smiling with shyness.)

Just to clarify, I am talking about myself when it comes to "man" vs "boy". I myself posted that Sasha is more man and Richie can be seen as more boy and then I got myself thinking why am I saying this?

Richie is educated (he's an engineer) and has built his own home and has his own things which he takes care of, takes financially care of his family (mom and sister) since a young age, is confident where it matters, driven, responsible, caring, considerate of others, etc. Yet I labeled Richie more as boy because he was not as alpha as some of the other guys... didn't have as much hair on the chest or physically look as masculine as Sasha who is the same age. So to me, it is a self-reflection on myself that I realize that Richie is a man. That I was downgrading him and labeling him because of the alpha dynamic in the house. It made me sit back and think, wow, I really need to adjust what I label someone as because I was buying into social stereotypes of what constitutes labeling someone as more of a man and thus it was a matter of self-reflection. That's all

@AllAboutLove just a quick question: how do you know so much about Richie?

AAL I was just about to post that I was unaware of this boy vs man typecasting in general so thanks for clarifying. I do agree with HGL; fundamentally to me all men are men when it gets down to the basics, they just exhibit different qualities. Some women are very serious & like a playful man, other women are more playful & want a serious/straight to the business type of guy. It all works out as long as the partners are willing to understand & make it work.

EmmK wrote:@AllAboutLove just a quick question: how do you know so much about Richie?

I know Richie built his own home because it's posted on his SM. I know he is an engineer and his job entails abseiling from pre-sleuthing and also from his SM. I know about him taking care of his sister and mom supporting them from his SM and from comments by those who know him and said he has done this since he was younger and that he was the man in the house growing up and taking care of everyone. This was supported by what Richie said on the show to Sam in the hottub, taking care of his sis and mom. When asked what he would do if he won the lottery he was the only guy to say he would pay off his family's mortgage - so again, his priority is taking care of his family.

AAL ... I think I understand your point.

I also think there's a distinction in the interpretation of the "alpha male" by different people.

The same as when we discussed the "wolf pack" mentality and Nick vs. Shawn during Kaitlyn's season.

I guess for me personally the difference is in the confidence and ego, but even that is tricky ... because it differs in different areas.

For example, one guy might feel confident and overly satisfied with himself - in appearance - and therefor he doesn't feel the need to change ... that guy usually has a difficulty to accept the criticism and other people's different opinion ... and here the ego plays a huge part, creating the barrier to the personal growth and understanding of the diversity ... but at the same time ... to me all of that speaks that a guy has some insecurities rooted deep down and is compensating them with the physical approach ... which often it happens to define the "alpha male".

But interestingly ... this kinda guy needs the "pack" to define his own worth (and place).

While on the other hand there's a guy who is more open with his own insecurities and more in-touch with his own vulnerable side ... and is willing to learn, change, challenge himself ... and may not appear confident or "manly" to some ... therefor often not described as the "alpha male" ... but the power of his courage to face the change and the desire for his personal growth is rooted in his self-worth.

And for me ... that guy is much more of an alpha (although I believe by the definition he's not) ... because he can survive on his own.

So - I believe the core = essence of a man is what makes me define A Man.
I prefer the latter. (no wonder I adore Nick)

@AllAboutLove thanks for sharing. I had no idea. Haven't been following that closely before the start of the season.

Regarding Richie's education he is noted as a professional abseiler on the show; can you point me to where his educational background is listed as an engineer? My undergrad was in engineering as well so I am just curious if he got the same degree. TIA

EmmK wrote:@AllAboutLove thanks for sharing. I had no idea. Haven't been following that closely before the start of the season.

You're welcome. Yes it is interesting things about Richie because it shows me that he is truly a man and that he had to grow up quickly and be the man of his house growing up and financially supporting his sis and mom. That's a huge responsibility and I am sure it weighs on him (I follow his mom on SM too). I have communicated with numerous people that know Richie personally and they say he is very accomplished and an extremely hard worker and that how he is appears on the show as someone who is respectful, self-deprecating and considerate/concerned about others is who he is in real life. That he is the kind of guy who would give you the shirt off his back. I think we saw his concern when he was the one after David the model left who told Sam she deserves better than that. That Sam herself said that Richie is someone who would stick by her through thick and thin shows that Sam immediately realized the type of man Richie is... someone who is loyal and puts others first.