Episode 7 - 7/11 - Discussion - Spoilers

Samantharose wrote:

rc49ers wrote:If Ben is the F-1 For sure he better not watch any of Ashley and Jorden Pauls scenes . on scend thought he may get a big lesson on kissing Magical Kisses that is .

:sweetheart:

If Ben is F1, then he needs to be asking Ashley what JP meant when he said that night was unbeliveable on the tram!

Forgot a bout that , it was unbeliveable . :bigsmile:

This may be the most dramatic season ever if Ben is F1. So many are convinced it is JP. Or maybe CH can use "stay tuned for the most shocking finale ever". :what:

Poor CH......some of his lines just never change!! LOL

mnmhughes wrote:

Samantharose wrote:

JBF wrote:

Martinanne wrote:

Hotmomma wrote:

Martinanne wrote:

I kind of wonder if she would have cut Ben F. at F3 if Constantine hadn't taken himself out of the running, just to spare JP the worry.

If that was the case why not cut Ben after hometown and keep Ames?

Very good question. I must admit it seems like the logical reason is that she didn't want to let Ben go yet. I definitely see the connection there between Ben and Ashley, and even though I believe JP is F1 and I see a stronger connection between the two of them, I can easily imagine that she had strong enough feelings for Ben that she would want to hang onto him just in case it all unraveled with JP. But I still wonder if she might have let him go at F3, so as not to ruin the final day with so much drama. I mean, those previews make it look like she is REALLY upset at the FRC and she has shown in these past episodes that she finds it terribly hard to let these guys go. So if she is strongly attached to BOTH her F2, then FRC day is going to be really hard on her. So I can see her wanting to let the true F2 go at F3 (ala Jilly with Reid, IMO) to take some of the pressure off herself and also off of JP. Because JP would certainly see Constantine as less of a threat than Ben. Seems FRC day would be a lot more enjoyable for both herself and her F1 (and maybe even her F2 if it was Constantine since he obviously wasn't as attached as others) if they ALL went into it knowing who she was going to choose.

I agree. The Bachelorettes always do it that way... send their EMOTIONAL final 2 away at the final 3 position and take one they have a weaker "connection" with to FRC, to cut down on the stress. Last year, Frank was the "weak link" of the final 3 and the planned F2, but he ruined it for Ali. Ha ha ha! You just know she wouldn't have asked Frank to leave at Last Chance Date time like she did Chris L., since she was so aloof with him. Constantine is the perfect final 2 choice and certainly NOT a threat to Jordan's insecurities, like Ben is.

What is interesting about Ames is that he, along with Lucas, were on the same wedding date with Jordan. Right away that told me that those were the three "husbands" she had pegged. Lucas and Ames have both discussed children with her on their 1 on 1s. Ben and Constantine were the "boyfriends" and Ryan too intense for her. When Lucas discussed waking up in the morning with the woman of his life, a lightbulb flashed in her head... he had to go next.

Again... I keep repeating myself... there was no real conflict between Lucas and Jordan. His comments were pretty objective: Jordan was going through his PMS phase on account of being Luv Struck. He was laughing about the tux prompting a 180 degree turnaround in his behavior and was chuckling when an astonished Ames observed (wide-eyed) how well the photo shoot was going with Mister Grumpy Pants, now that he was with his little woman in her white dress.

Really, really, really curious what Lucas whispered to Jordan as he left the mansion... Ben was just observing with no concern. I think he knows his position. He even joked on his date that he was confident about a hometown visit... but didn't mention any future with her. (Hey, as long as the wine keeps getting promoted all season...)

Did you notice the tender look JP gives her when they go back into the room with Lucas and Ames? It's right after they do their cheers. Lucas is doing his PI and then it flips back to JP and Lucas sitting on the couch and you see JP give Ashley this tender look.

What scene was this? Was it this past episode?

Yup... and there were other scenes...

When Ashley got the group rose for Ryan in Hong Kong, Mickey was wining that he should keep his mouth shut and Ben, Constantine, Blake and Ames all had much to say about it. As Ben PI-ed, she was not seeing the same Ryan they were seeing.

When Ashley took the rose for Jordan in Taiwan, the mood was completely different.

Ames to Lucas: I feel like at this moment, for the first time this is completely out of our hands… I put, like, everything out there today.
Lucas (sighing with hand over face): Yup.

Of Ben is F1 he only needs to concentrate on Ashley , not on past history involving JP

JBF....the quote was getting long....LOL. So, I decided to start out on my own. I'm a Ben fan, as I'm sure they have figured out by now, but I truly appreciate the other side of things. I love your posts. The things you bring to discussion, make me rethink who I like. I loved JP out of the Limo, then went down the Ben path. At this stage, I can see both guys with her. The fence hurts my posterior these days. But, I think both guys are great for her. Whichever way she goes, can't go wrong.

I just wanted to let you know, that I appreciate all of your posts. You really break it down for me. Thank you.

Jeepers wrote:Of Ben is F1 he only needs to concentrate on Ashley , not on past history involving JP

You are so right. And, if you recall, that is what Ben says at the end of the Hong Kong episode. "If she concentrates on the guys she has left, she'll be okay." (And for the life of me, that is just paraphrasing)(I don't have the patience to watch again.) I truly believe, in this point in her journey, it could be either or.

I just read this article on Episode 7 posted at JU. The writer's comment on Ben after his 1-1 date is interesting... could be good topic of discussion.

http://forums.jokersupdates.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=TheBachelorette&Number=15398200&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=93&rc=&fpart=

The Bachelorette Review: True Colors
July 15, 2011 by Lauren Tyree
Filed under Television




We’re seven weeks in, and there are six men remaining on The Bachelorette. Taiwan is the latest “absolutely beautiful” place in Ashley’s travelogue of love, and she’s feeling optimistic about her chances. Skipping along the streets of Taipei, Ashley tells us that she’s looking for a week of clarity, during which she can discern which of the contestants has “the whole package.” Our fair lady assures us that she will only visit the homes of gentlemen who share a “mental and physical connection” with her. Cupid had better have his travel documents in order; by the end of this episode, two men will be on their way home following three roseless one-on-ones and a group date. Suddenly, the end is nigh.

Constantine wins the first solo date this time around, joining Ashley on a steam locomotive into a tiny village called Pingxi. They hold hands and flirt while sizing each other up. Ashley tells us that her relationship with Constantine has been moving more slowly than with the other guys, but she wants to be patient. Constantine wonders if they’ll be able to relax and enjoy themselves; he’s still evaluating her usefulness as a mate, but he doesn’t want to allow his apparent disinterest to get in the way of the romance. They arrive at their destination, where a lantern festival fills the streets with locals. Ashley and her date pick out lanterns on which they write their wishes in the hopes that they come true when the lanterns are released into the sky. It looks like a beautiful tradition, and Constantine seems gracious about being immersed in the culture of the village. The downside is that the two lovebirds, as they scrawl what Ash refers to as “love wishes” on the lanterns, are really more like platonic lab partners at the moment.

By the time they sit down for a meal, Constantine seems to have softened a bit. His talking heads let us know that he’s still auditioning Ashley for the role of “wife,” but he shows just enough attraction to hook her. The handsome guy sits and describes his family, telling his companion that she shouldn’t feel anxious, as the brood is “big and loud but not intimidating.” Ashley likes what she hears, complimenting him for being himself and “not trying to convince” her to like him. It appears to me that Constantine may just be more level-headed than the other men; all he can do is expose Ashley to his real personality and hope there’s some potential for a connection. It’s honest, reasonable, and wise, leading me to wonder what he’s doing on this particular show. When Ash asks him if he thinks it could work between them, Constantine replies that it will if he falls in love, though you can’t force it. He makes it clear that he wants a hometown date, as meeting his family would give Ashley more insight into his character. Their date ends as all of the collected lanternsare set free into the deep blue night, lit up with yellow flames above their heads. Ashley and Constantine kiss very stiffly while the bachelorette voiceovers that she feels like they had a “big breakthrough” today. Constantine tells us that he’s excited and can’t wait to take Ashley home, adding that he’s never been happier. Since the audio is so clearly chopped and spliced, I can’t claim that his last statement had anything to do with this scene. You never can tell.

Winemaker Ben is next up for a one-on-one, which begins on a moped with Ashley holding on for dear life. They drive on a treacherous road, next to massive cliffs and rocks, taking sharp turns and racing toward their destination. Ashley should be grateful and relieved that Ben just happens to be comfortable on an old moped chugging along several miles above ground level, because surprising him with one was a big gamble. They finally get off and walk along a rickety bridge in the sky, somewhere near Taroko Gorge, kissing and holding each other in the breeze. It looks pretty peaceful. Ben lets us know that he’s genuinely happy, and that holding Ashley “feels right.” He admits to being in the process of falling in love but claims that he’s not ready to tell her yet. At dinner, Ashley’s eyes light up when Ben promises more of his custom wine at his upcoming hometown date. She loves his confidence as he describes how much his mother and sister will like seeing them together. After the baiting, Ben divulges that he’s “on the teetering point” of “strong-than-like” feelings for her. He swears that he doesn’t usually throw “the L-Bomb” around casually, but he really wants her to come home to Sonoma with him. Then he taps his watch and says, “Time’s running out, and I really wanna win this thing!” I’m kidding, of course, but I’d like someone to do that just once on this show. Ashley would probably applaud his honesty. Anyway, the two kiss some more as Ashley’s disembodied voice says, “I feel like he’s my boyfriend!,” so I guess they decided to skip the whole honeymoon phase and resign themselves to the bland, nonthreatening relationship simulation game they’ve constructed out of boredom and slight mutual attraction. Fair enough.

Back at the guys’ quarters, it’s the morning after, and Ben is nowhere to be found. The men are waking up and chatting in the kitchen while J.P. sits alone on a couch in the next room, silently planning Ben’s “accidental” death in a nearby river. He can’t bear the thought of Ben on an overnight date with Ashley, and the other guys are peeved, as well. When the man of the hour finally walks in with luggage and a huge smile, the tension only grows thicker. When confronted with prying questions from his competitors (“Did you two do any physical activities?”), Ben is vague and evasive (“Not any that I wanna talk about.”). I think it tacky and rude of him, and he doesn’t admit that they didn’t share a bedroom until asked directly. It’s annoying and makes me question his character. He’d have had no problem with the guys assuming he’d slept with Ashley. Their discomfort was palpable; J.P. had to leave the room soon after Ben entered, and everyone naturally feared the worst. Ben could have made it a point to be a gentleman, but he chose not to.
Ashley rounds up Ames, Lucas, and J.P. for their group date- a wedding photo session complete with costumes and professional lighting and backdrops. J.P. is already whining about having to go on a group date at all. In his mind, he and Ash are already a couple, and these other guys are in the way. I think there must be more to their bond than we’ve been permitted to see. He doesn’t seem irrational or insecure enough to be this jealous early on unless he were sure of his relationship with Ashley. I think he’s the clear front-runner, so he shouldn’t worry so much. The guys all don their costumes; J.P.’s spirits are lifted when he ends up wearing the classic black tuxedo, as Ames is stuck in a ridiculous, sparkly, ruffle-y, pastel suit (which J.P. thinks makes him look like a cross between an ostrich and Elton John), and Lucas wears the traditional Chinese silk robe, long like a dress and in vibrant yellow. Lucas tells the camera that J.P. would have thrown “a fit” if he’d had an ugly costume, since he acts like a 15 year-old when he’s upset. That doesn’t sound too healthy, but I’m sure the jealousy would really impress Ashley. J.P.’s confidence runs out when he has to watch his beloved take photos with each of the other two men in turn, kissing Lucas on the mouth as a part of the shoot. When it’s finally J.P.’s chance to make an impression on her, he can’t be bothered to smile for the photos or act entertained by the activity at all. Even Ames and Lucas see, from the sidelines, that the shoot isn’t going well. I can understand J.P. hating group dates and resenting having to participate in them, but he needs to straighten up, stop being a baby, and be a good sport. I hope he’s just nervous and acting out, because if this is a trend, he’ll be a miserable husband.

Ashley takes her three men to a private location for dinner, where their wedding photos from earlier in the day have already been framed and put on the walls. Everyone is in low spirits, and Ashley sympathizes with them, reminding us that she was once in their position, and she knows how much they need to relax at this point. She sits down with Lucas for a talk. He hesitantly lets her in on the fact that he is a traditional guy, and it didn’t feel good to see her taking wedding photos with other men. Ashley asks him if it’ll be hard to get married a second time, and he essentially replies that he does want to have kids, and she seems like she’d do as a wife. I’m liking him less each week. Ames takes Lucas’ place next to Ashley and shows her a stack of old photos of him and his family. She’s charmed by it, giggling and calling him “unique.” She does not want him in the way that she wants the other men; she just doesn’t have the heart to let him down yet.

J.P. has his moment with Ashley at long last, and he opens up immediately, telling her that although he understands the harsh rules of the game, he doesn’t want to play it sometimes. He hated watching Ben come home from a sleepover, he tells her, and it was no picnic watching Lucas make out with her on their group date. He defends his jealous streak as reasonable under the circumstances, prompting Ashley to ask him if he gets into fights with his competition. He reassures her that he doesn’t, but not before the faintest glimmer of hope crosses Ashley’s face, which is meant to look stern and concerned. She wants him to fight for her, to claim her and scare the other men off, but she can’t accept her own masochistic desire. I hope this one happens to be a truly good guy, because I like how much they like each other. I’m not a total scrooge, after all.

When J.P. has laid all of his cards on the table and told Ashley that he feels for her now and can no longer be cool as a cucumber like he was before, she goes to retrieve the date rose for him. She gushes that she wants to meet his family “so bad,” and he grins sexily while accepting his prize. The other men welcome the pair back to the communal space, cheering J.P. on with clapping and insincere congratulations. The cameras stop rolling, but I’m sure the drinks flowed freely for hours more.

Finally, we’ve reached the moment we’ve been patiently awaiting for what seems like forever. It’s the one-on-one between Ryan and Ashley, and I must say that it delivers. Oh, does it deliver. You couldn’t write this stuff. Ashley bounces toward her doom, oblivious to the disaster ahead, as her voiceover informs us that she likes Ryan, that he makes her feel special, and she doesn’t care what anyone else says about him. They link up in a park somewhere and walk around. Ryan seems stranger and more phony by the second, with a plastered-on smile and an over-eager demeanor that borders on willfully inconsiderate. He tells her how excited he is, in case she missed all of the outward signs. They wander into a temple, where people are kneeling in orderly lines, chanting and praying. I’m surprised Ryan doesn’t insert himself into the proceedings and make the whole thing about him somehow, but they manage to get out without creating a scene. Next, they visit a statue of a “matchmaking god,” in front of whom Ashley and Ryan throw bricks to decide their fate. Ryan’s bricks don’t land as they’re supposed to, despite his silent wish for confirmation on their relationship. He says he’s still optimistic. Nothing can stop him.

Ash and her date sit and talk under the sun as Ryan sports a creepy grin while peering into her soul and asking with firm resolve for a hometown date. Ashley’s comments to the camera are that she’s actually not ready to meet his family, and that she doesn’t think their relationship is at the right place for that. Ryan’s voiceovers reveal that he’s “on cloud nine…cloud ten!” They have a picnic next to a gorgeous pond, and Ryan still can’t see just how lukewarm Ashley is. He’s so delusional that he’ll never make the right assumptions about her, so she sits sort of quietly, accepting that fact as he prattles on. He asks her how responsible she is about environmental issues, because he thinks they’re at the point where he can make her feel the need to impress him. He’s wrong. She laughs and tells a self-deprecating story about a boyfriend who once dumped her for throwing a plastic water bottle into the garbage instead of recycling it. She’s not knowledgeable, she argues, but she’s happy for “people like” Ryan who seem to care. She doesn’t bother, because she doesn’t like him anymore, but he can’t see it yet, and so he prattles still.

Ryan starts a somewhat interesting lecture about water heaters and the importance of going “tankless.” I’m quite interested to hear more, but Ashley is fed up and can see right through him by this point, so we get sound bytes from her while he talks in the background. She doesn’t feel enough passion for him, she reveals, and she is obviously unable to keep pretending. As I cringe and turn away, Ryan tells Ashley that he can’t wait for his family to meet and hug her. She just can’t listen anymore, so she gives the speech. Look, Ryan, you’re a great person, I gave you the very first ‘first impression’ rose, and you’re the perfect guy in my head, but I’m not feeling anything for you. That is the gist of her explanation, but he still doesn’t get it. “You don’t want to meet my family?,” he asks, doing his best impression of an abused puppy dog. His manipulation doesn’t work, though he’s attempting his most disappointed face, trying mightily to guilt and shame her until she questions her stance. It doesn’t work; I can tell she doesn’t want to bear him any longer, as the water heater conversation did nothing to undo the creepiness of his intensity. She walks him out, since she doesn’t want to put him through the rose ceremony unnecessarily. When he’s gone, she tells us that she’s not confident that she did the right thing, since the look in Ryan’s eyes made her question herself for a second. Ashley, you did the right thing.

For the next several minutes, we get to watch Ryan give the performance of his life- groaning and complaining about how he doesn’t want to be alone- standing in front of the camera after Ashley leaves. He sits down and hyperventilates and then gets back up again, walks through some bushes and trees, tries to produce some genuine tears, stomps around like a petulant child, and generally acts like a worthless tool. I can’t imagine how the other men lived with him for so long, and I apologize for ever doubting their judgment.
The remaining men head into the cocktail party, all dressed up and ready to make their last efforts with Ashley. Ames says that everyone is keenly aware of how serious this is and that anyone who leaves tonight will be heartbroken. Meanwhile, Ashley is telling Chris Harrison that her mind is made up, and she doesn’t require any cocktail party. I like when she cuts to the chase, even though I have my doubts about the role of the producers in all of this. Just as Lucas is in the middle of telling the guys that he’s thankful for this opportunity for one more cocktail party so that he can win Ashley over again, Chris enters to tell them that there will be no such opportunity this time. Ashley explains to viewers that she’s simply ready to return home to the United States, that she can’t wait to meet her guys’ families. I can see how weary she is.

Ashley dramatically and somberly hands out roses to Constantine, and then Ben, before pausing behind the final reveal. Lucas and Ames wish each other luck, which seems silly. Ames makes it through, meaning Lucas is out of the running. He says goodbye to Ashley while calling her “sweetheart” several times and acting like a gentleman upon his exit, unlike someone else I could mention. Ashley says she felt like she’d known Lucas a long time, though there wasn’t enough of a romantic connection. No matter, though. Next week is hometown dates, and it should be an experience, to be sure.

I should mention that this episode ended with a lengthy segment featuring a sit-down between Chris Harrison and Emily Maynard- ex-fiance of Brad Womack. It’s an incredibly sad and unfortunate situation, as Emily cries throughout and sticks up for Brad while refusing to say anything awful about him, even though his narcissism and asshattery seem to be the reasons for their breakup. Emily dodged a bullet when she separated from Brad, and I’m hoping that she and her poor daughter can move on from this without too much ridiculous publicity on top of what’s already happened.

bing2262 wrote:I just read this article on Episode 7 posted at JU. The writer's comment on Ben after his 1-1 date is interesting... could be good topic of discussion.

http://forums.jokersupdates.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=TheBachelorette&Number=15398200&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=93&rc=&fpart=

The Bachelorette Review: True Colors
July 15, 2011 by Lauren Tyree
Filed under Television

Winemaker Ben is next up for a one-on-one, which begins on a moped with Ashley holding on for dear life. They drive on a treacherous road, next to massive cliffs and rocks, taking sharp turns and racing toward their destination. Ashley should be grateful and relieved that Ben just happens to be comfortable on an old moped chugging along several miles above ground level, because surprising him with one was a big gamble. They finally get off and walk along a rickety bridge in the sky, somewhere near Taroko Gorge, kissing and holding each other in the breeze. It looks pretty peaceful. Ben lets us know that he’s genuinely happy, and that holding Ashley “feels right.” He admits to being in the process of falling in love but claims that he’s not ready to tell her yet. At dinner, Ashley’s eyes light up when Ben promises more of his custom wine at his upcoming hometown date. She loves his confidence as he describes how much his mother and sister will like seeing them together. After the baiting, Ben divulges that he’s “on the teetering point” of “strong-than-like” feelings for her. He swears that he doesn’t usually throw “the L-Bomb” around casually, but he really wants her to come home to Sonoma with him. Then he taps his watch and says, “Time’s running out, and I really wanna win this thing!” I’m kidding, of course, but I’d like someone to do that just once on this show. Ashley would probably applaud his honesty. Anyway, the two kiss some more as Ashley’s disembodied voice says, “I feel like he’s my boyfriend!,” so I guess they decided to skip the whole honeymoon phase and resign themselves to the bland, nonthreatening relationship simulation game they’ve constructed out of boredom and slight mutual attraction. Fair enough.

Back at the guys’ quarters, it’s the morning after, and Ben is nowhere to be found. The men are waking up and chatting in the kitchen while J.P. sits alone on a couch in the next room, silently planning Ben’s “accidental” death in a nearby river. He can’t bear the thought of Ben on an overnight date with Ashley, and the other guys are peeved, as well. When the man of the hour finally walks in with luggage and a huge smile, the tension only grows thicker. When confronted with prying questions from his competitors (“Did you two do any physical activities?”), Ben is vague and evasive (“Not any that I wanna talk about.”). I think it tacky and rude of him, and he doesn’t admit that they didn’t share a bedroom until asked directly. It’s annoying and makes me question his character. He’d have had no problem with the guys assuming he’d slept with Ashley. Their discomfort was palpable; J.P. had to leave the room soon after Ben entered, and everyone naturally feared the worst. Ben could have made it a point to be a gentleman, but he chose not to.

There was so much lop & chop in the editing, it is hard to determine exactly how things happened here. Bottom line, JP was upset and Ben "edged" him on a bit. I don't think it was mean-spirited, but Ben was like the Cheshire Cat (friend with teethy Blake). "Shall we make him really angry? It is loads of fun!"

Ashley S. shared commentary with Nick on the abc.com video for that episode and both made some surprisingly snide remarks about Ben. Nothing too nasty, but suggesting that both share "like" opinions of his "boys-will-be-boys" style of humor. Nick joked that he actually combed his hair for his date and Ashley said his comment to Ryan about Lucas probably bringing back the group rose was likely a "dig" at Jordan not taking his belated return well. I would have to go back and recheck those quotes... maybe I'm off in the way I'm paraphrasing here. I don't think Nick was quite as buddy-buddy with Ben as others were and Ashley S. has her opinions as well.

However, neither one was there to know exactly what happened. For all we know, Ben and JP could have been all buddy-buddy after the group date was done and you-know-who was back on Cloud 9. They were smiling at each other during the rose ceremony, I think.

Lucas DID state in so many words in his media interview that JP over reacted too much, but also basically hinted that he was "the one" falling for her, potentially more so than Ben. No, he is VERY careful not to say one was falling faster for Ashley than the other, but my "vibe" is that Lucas is pretty certain who had the stronger connection and was remaining quiet and neutral about it. As Reality Steve even pointed out, Lucas' interview was "all over the map": Ben would be great for both Ashley and be equally great as Next Bachelor. He does NOT say JP would be great as next Bachelor, but he does mention that JP was falling for her. You do the math.

In addition, we have that earlier scene in episode #4, during Constantine's date, when both Blake and Ben were teasing JP, simply because they knew how "moonstruck" he was. Now, fans of both finalists will have their OWN take on that scene. To be fair, it was also BEFORE the orphanage date, when Ben got his group rose, some kissing and stated "I'm on Cloud 9, Man".