Re: Juan Pablo & Nikki Ferrell - Fan Forum - Discussion - Couples Therapy Premier Sept 10 2014

[Maggenzm]

This is JMO, but Andi got a lot of publicity and the spot as the bachelorette by making fun of JPG, who Nikki claims to love.  Hearing Nikki continually say that Andi has a right to her feelings and her behavior and actions are okay, to me that would say to JPG, I don't love you, not as much as Andi.

I think her saying it and not showing it, including defending Andi, increases JPG's hesitation to say ILY to Nikki.

I truly don't think that JPG at least at this point believes that Nikki really loves him.  Again, JMO.

Yup!  I always say, you can tell your other half thousand of "ILY" but if u don't show, those don't mean anything.  Nikki wants to hear it from him, I get it but she needs to show some actions.

This is just my opinion, but at this point of CT, with all we have seen and with her continued defense of Andi and not him.  I don't think JPG believes her that she really loves him.  

I think that was part of his childhood story to try to get her to understand for all of his affable personality, true deep trust is hard for him and her actions with Andi and saying things and not showing it to me make him not believe her.  I also think since he doesn't believe she actually loves him, he is unwilling to say he loves her even if he does feel like he might.  He doesn't want to be the fool again.

Ye, his self protective mode kicks me, so until he can feel certain she loves him, he wont say it. I still think this is a crossroad for Nikki, the ball is on her court, and I think she does love him, she will make it work.

IMO this has nothing to do with Andi, JPG forgave Andi way back then, he even wished her well with the Nick situation and her engagement with Josh. That's one of the things I love about him, he is very kind, easy going, and doesn't hold grunges. it takes a great person to forgive others.

[stuckinsc]

Yup!  I always say, you can tell your other half thousand of "ILY" but if u don't show, those don't mean anything.  Nikki wants to hear it from him, I get it but she needs to show some actions.

This is just my opinion, but at this point of CT, with all we have seen and with her continued defense of Andi and not him.  I don't think JPG believes her that she really loves him.  

I think that was part of his childhood story to try to get her to understand for all of his affable personality, true deep trust is hard for him and her actions with Andi and saying things and not showing it to me make him not believe her.  I also think since he doesn't believe she actually loves him, he is unwilling to say he loves her even if he does feel like he might.  He doesn't want to be the fool again.

Ye, his self protective mode kicks me, so until he can feel certain she loves him, he wont say it. I still think this is a crossroad for Nikki, the ball is on her court, and I think she does love him, she will make it work.

IMO this has nothing to do with Andi, JPG forgave Andi way back then, he even wished her well with the Nick situation and her engagement with Josh. That's one of the things I love about him, he is very kind, easy going, and doesn't hold grunges. it takes a great person to forgive others.

I agree JPG has moved on, but this was filmed in June and I think there might have been tension still. Nikki complains about the negative press and SM, but to me at least Andi helped contribute to a large part of that, so I can see why until they discuss it Nikki's defense of Andi would hurt.

[docnash14]

This is JMO, but Andi got a lot of publicity and the spot as the bachelorette by making fun of JPG, who Nikki claims to love.  Hearing Nikki continually say that Andi has a right to her feelings and her behavior and actions are okay, to me that would say to JPG, I don't love you, not as much as Andi.

I think her saying it and not showing it, including defending Andi, increases JPG's hesitation to say ILY to Nikki.

I truly don't think that JPG at least at this point believes that Nikki really loves him.  Again, JMO.

Yup!  I always say, you can tell your other half thousand of "ILY" but if u don't show, those don't mean anything.  Nikki wants to hear it from him, I get it but she needs to show some actions.

This is just my opinion, but at this point of CT, with all we have seen and with her continued defense of Andi and not him.  I don't think JPG believes her that she really loves him.  

I think that was part of his childhood story to try to get her to understand for all of his affable personality, true deep trust is hard for him and her actions with Andi and saying things and not showing it to me make him not believe her.  I also think since he doesn't believe she actually loves him, he is unwilling to say he loves her even if he does feel like he might.  He doesn't want to be the fool again.

I mostly agree with your opinion. I would hypothesize though that JP believe Nikki loves him but questions whether she really has his back. It's clear that JP highly values loyalty so having any questions about this would likely be a major issue for him. In truth, I can't say that I have seen many examples during CT in which Nikki really seems to empathize with JP. (Conversely, there are several times I have seen JP express empathy for Nikki and her process.) She seems so focused on his not getting her and her side of things that I think she may have lost focus on the need to try to understand his perspective of well. I think it probably has hurt him that Nikki is quicker to speak up for Andi than she is for him.

Where I have empathy for Nikki is this - although I understand from Jenna's perspective what Nikki went through as a child is peanuts compared to her own history, from Nikki's perspective I can easily see that what she described experiencing as a child could be damaging to her now as an adult. Indeed, as I tell my own clients, it is important for us to realize that trauma and its resultant pain is all relative in that we can only experience it from our own frame of reference. So what might seem insignificant from someone's else vantage point may be very trauma inducing for the person experiencing it. And I actually thought it was very insightful of Nikki to realize that she is re-enacting in her adult relationships including hers with JP the dynamic she apparently mastered as a child - throw a temper tantrum so that the other person will back down and you can have your way. I appreciated that she was able to own that.

That being said, I did not see Nikki show much empathy for Jenna after Jenna finished sharing. I believe that Nikki is able to lower her walls when she interacts with children thereby revealing her genuine caring, loving self. It's very unfortunate that she seems to interact with many, if not most, adults with her defenses in place thus misrepresenting her true self and leading others to be quite critical of her.

[eliza3]

Yup!  I always say, you can tell your other half thousand of "ILY" but if u don't show, those don't mean anything.  Nikki wants to hear it from him, I get it but she needs to show some actions.

This is just my opinion, but at this point of CT, with all we have seen and with her continued defense of Andi and not him.  I don't think JPG believes her that she really loves him.  

I think that was part of his childhood story to try to get her to understand for all of his affable personality, true deep trust is hard for him and her actions with Andi and saying things and not showing it to me make him not believe her.  I also think since he doesn't believe she actually loves him, he is unwilling to say he loves her even if he does feel like he might.  He doesn't want to be the fool again.

I mostly agree with your opinion.  I would hypothesize though that JP believe Nikki loves him but questions whether she really has his back.  It's clear that JP highly values loyalty so having any questions about this would likely be a major issue for him.  In truth, I can't say that I have seen many examples during CT in which Nikki really seems to empathize with JP.  (Conversely, there are several times I have seen JP express empathy for Nikki and her process.)  She seems so focused on his not getting her and her side of things that I think she may have lost focus on the need to try to understand his perspective of well.  I think it probably has hurt him that Nikki is quicker to speak up for Andi than she is for him.  

Where I have empathy for Nikki is this - although I understand from Jenna's perspective what Nikki went through as a child is peanuts compared to her own history, from Nikki's perspective I can easily see that what she described experiencing as a child could be damaging to her now as an adult.  Indeed, as I tell my own clients, it is important for us to realize that trauma and its resultant pain is all relative in that we can only experience it from our own frame of reference.  So what might seem insignificant from someone's else vantage point may be very trauma inducing for the person experiencing it.   And I actually thought it was very insightful of Nikki to realize that she is re-enacting in her adult relationships including hers with JP the dynamic she apparently mastered as a child - throw a temper tantrum so that the other person will back down and you can have your way.  I appreciated that she was able to own that.

That being said, I did not see Nikki show much empathy for Jenna after Jenna finished sharing.  I believe that Nikki is able to lower her walls when she interacts with children thereby revealing her genuine caring, loving self.  It's very unfortunate that she seems to interact with many, if not most, adults with her defenses in place thus misrepresenting her true self and leading others to be quite critical of her.

I found the bolded really interesting. It makes me wonder if because Nikki had things very easy growing up if she was picked on by others, called names, causing her to be interact carefully when with adults. I don't think it is always the quiet kids that are picked on, but overachievers also. One of my sons was horribly picked on and bullied because he was and is a gifted musician. Even the music teacher made sarcastic comments because he was studying on weekends at a top conservatory. It caused him to leave high school a year early just to get away from it.
My point is we never know what things in the past cause a person to react the way they do

[Maggenzm]

This is just my opinion, but at this point of CT, with all we have seen and with her continued defense of Andi and not him.  I don't think JPG believes her that she really loves him.  

I think that was part of his childhood story to try to get her to understand for all of his affable personality, true deep trust is hard for him and her actions with Andi and saying things and not showing it to me make him not believe her.  I also think since he doesn't believe she actually loves him, he is unwilling to say he loves her even if he does feel like he might.  He doesn't want to be the fool again.

I mostly agree with your opinion.  I would hypothesize though that JP believe Nikki loves him but questions whether she really has his back.  It's clear that JP highly values loyalty so having any questions about this would likely be a major issue for him.  In truth, I can't say that I have seen many examples during CT in which Nikki really seems to empathize with JP.  (Conversely, there are several times I have seen JP express empathy for Nikki and her process.)  She seems so focused on his not getting her and her side of things that I think she may have lost focus on the need to try to understand his perspective of well.  I think it probably has hurt him that Nikki is quicker to speak up for Andi than she is for him.  

Where I have empathy for Nikki is this - although I understand from Jenna's perspective what Nikki went through as a child is peanuts compared to her own history, from Nikki's perspective I can easily see that what she described experiencing as a child could be damaging to her now as an adult.  Indeed, as I tell my own clients, it is important for us to realize that trauma and its resultant pain is all relative in that we can only experience it from our own frame of reference.  So what might seem insignificant from someone's else vantage point may be very trauma inducing for the person experiencing it.   And I actually thought it was very insightful of Nikki to realize that she is re-enacting in her adult relationships including hers with JP the dynamic she apparently mastered as a child - throw a temper tantrum so that the other person will back down and you can have your way.  I appreciated that she was able to own that.

That being said, I did not see Nikki show much empathy for Jenna after Jenna finished sharing.  I believe that Nikki is able to lower her walls when she interacts with children thereby revealing her genuine caring, loving self.  It's very unfortunate that she seems to interact with many, if not most, adults with her defenses in place thus misrepresenting her true self and leading others to be quite critical of her.

I found the bolded really interesting.  It makes me wonder if because Nikki had things very easy growing up if she was picked on by others, called names, causing her to be interact carefully when with adults.  I don't think it is always the quiet kids  that are picked on, but overachievers also.   One of my sons was horribly picked on and bullied because he was and is a gifted musician.  Even the music teacher made sarcastic comments because he was studying on weekends at a top conservatory.  It caused him to leave high school a year early just to get away from it.  
My point is we never know what things in the past cause a person to react the way they do

I think, since the finally, Nikki has been called all kinds of names for staying with a man who didn't say ILY, she has been subject to SM bully this is abuse, this is not the girl that we saw during filming, she is extra sensitive now and seem almost insecure. But I think the CT was able to help her.

[Isabel123]

screenshots from epi 5 and 6

[stuckinsc]

I mostly agree with your opinion.  I would hypothesize though that JP believe Nikki loves him but questions whether she really has his back.  It's clear that JP highly values loyalty so having any questions about this would likely be a major issue for him.  In truth, I can't say that I have seen many examples during CT in which Nikki really seems to empathize with JP.  (Conversely, there are several times I have seen JP express empathy for Nikki and her process.)  She seems so focused on his not getting her and her side of things that I think she may have lost focus on the need to try to understand his perspective of well.  I think it probably has hurt him that Nikki is quicker to speak up for Andi than she is for him.  

Where I have empathy for Nikki is this - although I understand from Jenna's perspective what Nikki went through as a child is peanuts compared to her own history, from Nikki's perspective I can easily see that what she described experiencing as a child could be damaging to her now as an adult.  Indeed, as I tell my own clients, it is important for us to realize that trauma and its resultant pain is all relative in that we can only experience it from our own frame of reference.  So what might seem insignificant from someone's else vantage point may be very trauma inducing for the person experiencing it.   And I actually thought it was very insightful of Nikki to realize that she is re-enacting in her adult relationships including hers with JP the dynamic she apparently mastered as a child - throw a temper tantrum so that the other person will back down and you can have your way.  I appreciated that she was able to own that.

That being said, I did not see Nikki show much empathy for Jenna after Jenna finished sharing.  I believe that Nikki is able to lower her walls when she interacts with children thereby revealing her genuine caring, loving self.  It's very unfortunate that she seems to interact with many, if not most, adults with her defenses in place thus misrepresenting her true self and leading others to be quite critical of her.

I found the bolded really interesting.  It makes me wonder if because Nikki had things very easy growing up if she was picked on by others, called names, causing her to be interact carefully when with adults.  I don't think it is always the quiet kids  that are picked on, but overachievers also.   One of my sons was horribly picked on and bullied because he was and is a gifted musician.  Even the music teacher made sarcastic comments because he was studying on weekends at a top conservatory.  It caused him to leave high school a year early just to get away from it.  
My point is we never know what things in the past cause a person to react the way they do

I think, since the finally, Nikki has been called all kinds of names for staying with a man who didn't say ILY, she has been subject to SM bully this is abuse, this is not the girl that we saw during filming, she is extra sensitive now and seem almost insecure. But I think the CT was able to help her.

What disturbs me is that Nikki doesn't see that Andi and her SM activity at the time, her interviews and even her behavior on WTA added to that treatment. I think that is partially what disturbed JPG too. He saw how much it all hurt Nikki and I think he felt bad about it, then she turns around and is defending Andi all the time, when she helped lead to the crap that she and JPG had to go through.

[Isabel123]

[theKeptGrits]

My heart goes out to JPG. I think he really does care for NIkki, but has had these issues of broken trust in the past. The way he went at it in the house of horrors was telling us a lot.
I also think that he was NOT the worst bachelor ever, he stood his ground and was castigated for not "playing along". His reaction was clarified by his reveal on CT. IMO.

The question that keeps running through my mind is " How in the world is this all going to effect Camila?" He should not have to move away from her.

Yes, NIkki has had a hard time and has admitted that she did not think things through before doing TB. But she did it, she's having to deal with it daily, and I'm hoping that CT will help her mature. If she does not take it all to heart, empathize and invest herself, she will end up ruining the relationship, plus she would not be the best example for his daughter. We all need friends, but staying friends with someone who attempts to emasculate the man in one's life..... does not help anything positive.

[soccerm3m]

I will be interested if we see anything of the two of them posted on social media for her bday.

I think it is very strange that she has not traveled with him since Bali. I guess it is possible she is in background but it does not appear to be case. She did not go to Houston or Dallas. He has been attending events on his own. I would have thought she would have Gond to SF with him.

I like these two together and hope it works out. They have both been pretty quiet on SM. He might be more vocal today since fCB plays Real Madrid and he love FCB. He has not tweeted much about WS games but maybe due to job he is staying quiet but that did not stop him earlier in playoffs.

Evel Dick tweeted again about Nikki's horrible edit. She is just getting trashed on twitter.

[eliza3]

This may have been discussed, but is it possible that they are contractually not able to see each other publically while CT is airing?

[whit90]

I will be interested if we see anything of the two of them posted on social media for her bday.

I think it is very strange that she has not traveled with him since Bali.  I guess it is possible she is in background but it does not appear to be case.  She did not go to Houston or Dallas.  He has been attending events on his own.  I would have thought she would have Gond to SF with him.  

I like these two together and hope it works out.  They have both been pretty quiet on SM.  He might be more vocal today since fCB plays Real Madrid and he love FCB.  He has not tweeted much about WS games but maybe due to job he is staying quiet but that did not stop him earlier in playoffs.  

Evel Dick tweeted again about Nikki's horrible edit.  She is just getting trashed on twitter.

Do we really know that she did not travel with him to SF ? If I were to guess since Juan has been very quiet about the WS that he is being quiet on SM due to Nikki's request.

I know her mother tweeted about babysitting the kitten Nikki just got.

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