Re: Andi Dorfman and Josh Murray Bachelorette 10 - Media - Twitter - General Discussion Thread #2

[Lucas15]

From the SM interaction, I would say the producers and assistants  loved Andi very much and were happy for her and Josh. Now, were they hoping they could have Josh as TB? Totally! Were they whispering to Andi to be careful, because he could pull Brooks? For sure. I think the producers are kinda evil in a way that they are able to differentiate between their personal relationship with the lead (and contestants) and what they think is best for the ratings and storybuilding. Case in point is Ben's season. Courtney got terrible edit, yet she is still friends with some of the producers. Also, from what I've heard, they didn't like Ben that much, but if he wasn't caught with other girls before the ATFR shooting, he would be portrayed as a poor victim to the "evil" Courtney. The producers and editors do whatever they think is best for the show. Whether they are right or not is a question.

I wasn't here when this season aired, but I did go back to read the unspoiled discussions and many great sleuthers there were confident Josh was the F1 for a long time. So to some people, their love story wasn't that much hidden. Again, I don't think they were trying to give Andi and Josh a bad edit - in their minds, they were just trying to make the season more interesting.

As for Andi and Josh not watching their proposal on ATFR, there might be a logical explanation. The producers didn't expect it would take Nick so long to ask THE infamous question. Whether you agree with what Nick did or not, to me, in hindsight it's obvious that's what the producers were hoping for, and they gave him all the time he needed to get there. After that, it was between the proposal and grumpy cat. And let's be honest - they paid for the grumpy cat and were gonna use it.

Honestly, with Nick's truthbomb, I think they were more aiming for the after show media buzz, than for ratings - but it is just my opinion.

Great post and as to the last point I totally agree. Tactically they waited too long to do anything that could have increased viewership for the ATFR because no one knew what might happen before it happened. The only thing they did that could be construed as an attempt to get ratings was to release Nick's letter to Andi but they did that so soon before airtime that I think it had little effect; it was more of an afterthought.

But the shock value and ensuing media buzz will go a long way to increase ratings for subsequent seasons and they will intertwine that theme in the future just like they intertwined what happened on Jason's season into what might have happened this season.

The producers are, IMHO, more than just kinda evil; they are genuinely evil at least if you consider (as I do) that manipulating peoples weaknesses to get them to say and do things that are embarrassing, humiliating, defamatory, derogatory, offensive, injurious and put cast members in an unfavorable light evil. If that isn't enough, they make them sign a contract that acknowledges that the producers or anybody connected with the show may make misrepresentations intentionally or unintentionally in order to get the cast to do those things, and the cast has to voluntarily agree to participate in the series fully aware of what can happen.

[pander3575]

Okay, since apparently my asking about Andi's job is a big deal, let me clarify myself.

Andi spent 2009-2012 pursuing her law degree.  She then spent what I will assume is a lot of time studying for the bar exam, since I have been told it is a huge endeavor and not something that any lawyer takes lightly.  She obviously did a great job and passed on her first try, since she seemed to be working pretty quickly.

She then started what she has called her "dream" job as an ADA. I put this in quotes not to make fun of Andi, but because I think being an ADA is an extremely hard job and not a lot of fun.  It requires long hours with little glory and working in circumstances that are not all that fun.  Plus, the Fulton county DA has actually suffered fatalities many times.  So with the quotes, I do mean that she may have thought it would be great and learned it wasn't really all she wanted it to be.  Nothing wrong with that.

She jumped from this high stress job into bachelor land in September of 2013 and she has been there ever since.  Bachelor land is not real life, though, yes some do seem to make a career of it.

Since the show she has resigned from her job.  Again, I am not passing judgement, but she had a leave of absence until December and she chose to resign instead. 

I am curious what she is planning to do next.

I think being a housewife is noble, so if that is what she is doing great.  If she is looking for a change in law and to do something else with her law career that is great.  I have previously stated that if Josh is going into sports financial advising with Andi's law experience in contracts, etc, that they make a very successful and powerful team.

But all of this to me shows a woman in transition.  So yes, I am curious to know what she is doing next. 

I wouldn't advise any woman in transition to marry until she had some idea of what she was doing with her life.  That is not specific to Andi, it is something I would tell anyone and have told my friends here.

Marriage is a life long commitment.  I know Josh takes it very seriously and I assume that Andi does too.  So to me it seems that they are still in a transition stage, so why not wait until they are more settled to marry.

It is not a criticism, it is a suggestion.  One that I hope would give greater success to their marriage.

All marriage involves struggle, but why not go into it with the best odds?

I know that I hated being divorced and how much easier and more pleasant my marriage is this time that I took the time to know myself and my husband to be. 

I have failed at marriage, that to me was a huge failure.  The second biggest in my life.  It hurt and I was ashamed of myself for being divorced.  It is not something I wish on my worst enemy.

So when I ask why rush and if Andi doesn't know what she wants to do yet, then why not wait a while, it is not being nasty.

It is expressing my opinion based on my experience.

I may not like Andi, but I wish no one the pain of an unhappy marriage or a divorce.  So to me waiting until you weren't in transition anymore is not a bad idea.

I have to say, I realize that we are all allowed our opinions, but truly it is starting to feel like I am being attacked a bit and what I am trying to say, apparently ineffectively, is why the rush for marriage?  Why not settle in a little first?  They are even living in the same apartment yet, though they spend all their time together.  Again, not an issue, but since they have stated they will be living together come September, so that is obviously not something they have to push marriage for.

I also don't know that they are rushing.  My post was in response to other posts that seem to want them to announce a wedding and get married soon.  For their sake, from my experience, I would hope they wait a little while and know each other once they have settled into the life that they will have.  If this is it, great.  I just have not read or heard that this is it, so I have asked that question.

Stuck, I'm sorry if you felt you were being attacked especially if my post made you feel that way. I responded because I thought for some reason you thought all Andi was doing now is staying home taking care of house and Josh and I was just trying to say we don't know all Andi is doing. And yes, this board is full of speculation on what people do and mean but as you've said before people state things as if they know facts and not their opinion.

You have gone through the heartbreak of divorce as did I after 26 years of marriage so I understand why and what you are saying. I wouldn't and don't wish that on anyone and had never thought I'd have to go through it. When my friends and children told me they were getting married I based my advice to them on them as a couple and how they handle things. I went into my marriage very quickly and I don't regret doing it at all. However others I know it wouldn't be wise for them to do. All I was trying to say we have no real knowledge of where they are in their relationship. Sometimes being married makes you work harder to stay together than if you are just living with that person. It's much easier to walk out the door if you haven't fully committed. Do I suggest anyone rush into marriage? No but it can work just like knowing someone for a long time then get married can fail. You just don't always know what life is going to throw at you and how you as a couple will handle it.

As far as Andi's resignation goes I'm not sure that wasn't what her bosses really wanted her to do. When she wrote it she added a part that said after her commitments she'd like to come back in Dec. If I wrote a resignation letter I wouldn't have added that if I knew I never wanted to return to that job. It was reported she was given a leave of absence till Dec but that might not be the whole story. Again since I don't know the full story behind the resignation I personally can't make an assumption as to what her job situation is.

[aviej]

Stuckinc, as someone young that has obviously not been through it and since my parents are still together but aren't perfect, I can't imagine what going through a divorce must be like. I'm sorry you had to go through it, but with you it certainly seems like you are happy with your life now. Being happy is all that matters.

I hope with all of my responses to you on all threads that you don't feel like I attack you. We definitely have opposite opinions, but for crying out loud I converse with you the most I think I enjoy reading your posts even though we don't see eye to eye.

I am in total agreement with you that Andi and Josh shouldn't rush into anything too quickly. I completely agree. 100%. I think it just appears that quite a few of us feel like since we aren't with them all the time, that we don't know what their thought processes are and what they're doing in their spare time and perhaps many of us took your posts as attacking Andi for not having a job and so forth. Your latest post obviously really cleared that up though.

Keep on posting. You're always really in depth. You always get me to respond!

Thanks for clearing things up. I do agree that marriage should not be rushed into and that marriage should not be entered into with major stresses. So, if you can settle on your job first etc. rather than bring the stress of job hunting and adjusting to a new job into a marriage then yeah, wait a bit. Thanks for the clarity again. Solid advice.

[aviej]

same here relaxing -- i'm getting completely turned off of the US bach franchise with their recent track record

Sadly enough, this didn't have to be the case.  In both of the last seasons they had very happy couples at the end.  With JPG and Nikki, instead of pushing the whole stupid ILY conversation, they could have talked about all the times that they had met up, their plans to go to DR for a wedding, going to ballgames together, plans for Nikki to spend time with Camila.  They could easily have explained away the no proposal as JPG honoring Nikki's dads request.  Which it was at least partially true.  There was happiness to be had there, but TPTB, MF and the talking head CH decided to attack and play negative.

This season we have another happy couple and again, TPTB choses to spend three quarters of the AFTR on the F2.  They have had controversal F2s before.  I remember Matthew confronting Meredith on her saying she would be honored to get a ring from him.  That was still no more than a quarter of the show.  Andy told Bevin he loved her and not in the like a sister way that Sean did to Lindsay at FRC and still the happy couple of Tessa and Andy got at least equal time to Bevin.

This year, just like all season, AFTR was the Nick show. 

I asked this before and got shot down, but I will try again.

We know TPTB hated JPG.  Hence the horrible AFTR.

Did they decide that misery is better ratings?  Or as is my opinion, why the negative edit of Josh and Andi.  They really spent all season showing us Andi and Nick's love story and only started showing us the major Josh and Andi love story somewhat in Brussels and then mostly at FDs.  I am sure there was more there, but they didn't give it equal time to Nick and Andi's story.  Then the AFTR at which the happy couple barely got to speak, they didn't to a retrospective of their love story at all and they didn't even show them watching their proposal.  The first proposal they have not had the happy couple watch on live tv.  Why?

Again this is not blaming Andi.  Did TPTB decide their animosity towards JPG got ratings, so it is in their best interest to torture the leads and not show their happiness as much?  Or did Andi do something they didn't like.

I was kind of shocked because I thought Andi was a real favorite for them.  I wondered if they got mad at her for not keeping Eric and then choosing Josh and effectively ruining their first two choices for the next bachelor. The whole thing was odd and now that you mentioned it sad.  Two seasons in a row with AFTRs leaving a bad taste and not leaving the lead in the best possible light.

I totally agree. I felt robbed as well of seeing the proposal back. I think that throughout the season the edit was to prepare Josh to be the next bachelor. That is why he always got a lot of camera time but the love story centered around Nick. I really totally believe that TPTB thought that Josh wouldn't be the one to propose.

[pander3575]

A lot of us did see the love story between Andi and Josh not that Andi and Nick didn't have a connection as well. So I wonder if the Nick edit came about because TPTB didn't have any other drama in the house except for Nick being confident. Almost all other seasons they had a "villain" with drama in the house but this group of guys seemed to all get along.

Personally I'd rather not have all the drama but apparently that is what a lot of people viewing it want.

[soccermom333]

A lot of us did see the love story between Andi and Josh not that Andi and Nick didn't have a connection as well.  So I wonder if the Nick edit came about because TPTB didn't have any other drama in the house except for Nick being confident.  Almost all other seasons they had a "villain" with drama in the house but this group of guys seemed to all get along.  

Personally I'd rather not have all the drama but apparently that is what a lot of people viewing it want.

I totally agree. I saw the love the story between Andi and Josh from the beginning. Nick got an awful edit.... remember "tricky Nicky?" No way the final 1 ever gets that sort of edit.

TPTB are all about drama and villains. Nick was the villain. He knew it too. Drama sells , not showing Josh and Andi happy and "all over each other!" ABC will make up for not spending much time with the happy couple by televising their wedding. Don't worry they will find a way to capitalize and I for one will be very happy about that. I believe an announcement is coming soon. ;)

Wishing Andi and Josh all the happiness in the world, as well as the rest of the guys from her season. ALL have moved on now.

[Lucas15]

I think that throughout the season the edit was to prepare Josh to be the next bachelor. That is why he always got a lot of camera time but the love story centered around Nick. I really totally believe that TPTB thought that Josh wouldn't be the one to propose.

I think we have to keep in mind that the producers are not, by education and training, filmmakers; they are psychologists. And they are not just "general practitioner" psychologists - they are psychologists who have specialized in manipulating people and reading how people will think and react in the pressure cooker environment that the producers create. They have seen at this point hundreds of people going through an identical situation and they know what to do and how to do it. Years ago a wise person taught me a very simple lesson - the producers know everything; IMHO they knew with a 90% probability that Josh would propose even before Josh knew that he would.

The editors don't need to guess at anything because the edit is done after the outcome is known; there's no need to speculate what's going to happen because it's already happened. All the editors do is decide what pieces to include and which ones to exclude to tell a story (with an already known ending) in a certain way. And the story often boils down to a very simple format - the battle between good and evil where good ultimately triumphs and suspense is created because it looks like evil will triumph. That's why the love story centered around Nick - to delay for as long as possible the realization by the typical viewer that good would triumph.

A lot of us did see the love story between Andi and Josh not that Andi and Nick didn't have a connection as well. So I wonder if the Nick edit came about because TPTB didn't have any other drama in the house except for Nick being confident. Almost all other seasons they had a "villain" with drama in the house but this group of guys seemed to all get along.

And at least for those in the unspoiled forums the editors didn't do all that good a job because the attempts to hide good behind a veil of evil's triumph was pretty well seen though by that "team". But that was hardly an amateur team - it was some seasoned show watchers with a keen knowledge of how the show works that just happened to decide to figure out the ending on their own.

I do think the Nick edit was what they went with as "season villain" because that was the best they had to work with and really the big bone that Nick tossed them was his confidence. They actually could have probably made about anyone they wanted to seem like a credible villain but they had an easier time doing it with Nick because they were able to manipulate him into giving them a little more material to work with; that plus the fact that Andi really did have a connection to Nick.

[ironcat]

Why do people think that Andi and Josh are planning to rush into marriage?  I know they said some announcement was forthcoming, but if it is about announcing a date, maybe that date is sometime next spring?  I heard them say that they were considering marrying on the anniversary of their engagement, May 9.  That's still more than 8 months away, so plenty of time, IMO, to make sure they're really compatible.

Regarding why the ATFR was "The Nick Show", for me, there's no mystery, and it has nothing to do with the producers' feelings about Andi or Josh.  Nick was this season's villain, and even after filming ended, Nick kept the story and suspense alive by continuing to pursue Andi (or falling for the producers' manipulations to get him to continue to pursue her) and they were hoping/expecting to turn this series of events into an explosive episode, which is exactly what happened.  (For all we know, they try this every season with the heartbroken F2, and Nick was the only one to fully take the bait.) They teased it enough to goose ratings for the ATFR, then because it was so explosive, they even got mentioned in TIME magazine, right?  Couldn't have worked out better for them.

[Ash2214]

Why do people think that Andi and Josh are planning to rush into marriage?  I know they said some announcement was forthcoming, but if it is about announcing a date, maybe that date is sometime next spring?  I heard them say that they were considering marrying on the anniversary of their engagement, May 9.  That's still more than 8 months away, so plenty of time, IMO, to make sure they're really compatible.

Regarding why the ATFR was "The Nick Show", for me, there's no mystery, and it has nothing to do with the producers' feelings about Andi or Josh.  Nick was this season's villain, and even after filming ended, Nick kept the story and suspense alive by continuing to pursue Andi (or falling for the producers' manipulations to get him to continue to pursue her) and they were hoping/expecting to turn this series of events into an explosive episode, which is exactly what happened.  (For all we know, they try this every season with the heartbroken F2, and Nick was the only one to fully take the bait.) They teased it enough to goose ratings for the ATFR, then because it was so explosive, they even got mentioned in TIME magazine, right?  Couldn't have worked out better for them.

Firstly, I just want to say your first paragraph is what many posters, myself included, were trying to say. There were several posts about them rushing into marriage and Andi not having a job and many of us were confused considering 1. We have zero clue if that's what they're doing because they haven't announced a single thing about the wedding yet and 2. We're not with them 24.7 and don't know them personally and what goals they have. It was confusing as to why there were assumptions about them moving so fast when we don't know if they are. It's nice to see that you agree with us as well.

Secondly, I completely agree with your second paragraph. You stated it exactly as I see it. It's that simple for me. Nick gave them the goods during the season and continued to do so after the season. Production ran with it, which is their job to do so, whether they egged him on or not.

[vivi2]

Why do people think that Andi and Josh are planning to rush into marriage?  I know they said some announcement was forthcoming, but if it is about announcing a date, maybe that date is sometime next spring?  I heard them say that they were considering marrying on the anniversary of their engagement, May 9.  That's still more than 8 months away, so plenty of time, IMO, to make sure they're really compatible.

Regarding why the ATFR was "The Nick Show", for me, there's no mystery, and it has nothing to do with the producers' feelings about Andi or Josh.  Nick was this season's villain, and even after filming ended, Nick kept the story and suspense alive by continuing to pursue Andi (or falling for the producers' manipulations to get him to continue to pursue her) and they were hoping/expecting to turn this series of events into an explosive episode, which is exactly what happened.  (For all we know, they try this every season with the heartbroken F2, and Nick was the only one to fully take the bait.) They teased it enough to goose ratings for the ATFR, then because it was so explosive, they even got mentioned in TIME magazine, right?  Couldn't have worked out better for them.

I agree. Especially with the bolded---IMO, they tried this with F2 in Sean's season, but Lindsay wouldn't do the dirty job for them 'cause she truly loved Sean. But they had more luck with the F3 instead...hence the most explosive WTA ever!!!

[Lucas15]

Why do people think that Andi and Josh are planning to rush into marriage?  I know they said some announcement was forthcoming, but if it is about announcing a date, maybe that date is sometime next spring?  I heard them say that they were considering marrying on the anniversary of their engagement, May 9.  That's still more than 8 months away, so plenty of time, IMO, to make sure they're really compatible.

I have read that long engagements aren't necessarily better than short ones in terms of producing marriages that last and that the "sweet spot" that has (statistically) the best success rate is between 1 and 3 years. This may be why many of the televised weddings just "happen" to take place about 1 year after the finale airs. Of course the thing with statistics is that the same data that predicts a sweet spot of 1-3 years also has data significantly less than one year and as long as 5 years - just not as many data points.

If the show influences the date by "pushing it out" to a year I don't believe that it has anything to do with trying to help the success of the couple; they are no where near that altruistic; I think it's more likely that they just don't want to televise the wedding of the first bachelor divorce.

Sooner or later a couple is going to take matters into their own hands and simply tell the show "We're getting married on XXX,YY,ZZZZ. If you want to televise it, be there by 11:00AM otherwise you'll miss it". It all depends on how badly a couple wants their wedding televised (and the money paid - which isn't all that much anymore); if they could care less about the money or the televised ceremony then the show doesn't have much leverage.

Regarding why the ATFR was "The Nick Show", for me, there's no mystery, and it has nothing to do with the producers' feelings about Andi or Josh.  Nick was this season's villain, and even after filming ended, Nick kept the story and suspense alive by continuing to pursue Andi (or falling for the producers' manipulations to get him to continue to pursue her) and they were hoping/expecting to turn this series of events into an explosive episode, which is exactly what happened.  (For all we know, they try this every season with the heartbroken F2, and Nick was the only one to fully take the bait.) They teased it enough to goose ratings for the ATFR, then because it was so explosive, they even got mentioned in TIME magazine, right?  Couldn't have worked out better for them.

I would say it was a perfect plan to create a perfect storm and it succeeded far better than any expectations they might have had. It sucks what some people had to go through but I have to say to the producers - well played!

[stuckinsc]

For those hoping for a wedding date. If it is a TPTB wedding, then the date will probably only be announced a month or two before hand. That is what happened with Sean and Ashley. Umngirl may know more about this than I do.

I expect they are both doing DWTS. Good for them and would fit nicely with a leave of absence until December.

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