Re: Nick Viall Bachelorette 10 - Fan Forum - Updates - Discussion - Thread #9

[Guest]

I still think that TB showed the LS that they saw and that was between Nick and Andi. I believe Andi got scared in the end and that's why she chose differently.  Nick is a very perceptive guy.  He's very aware of what's going on around him. Why would he let his guard down if he wasn't sure that Andi felt the same way about him?  He was sure of her reciprocating his feelings that's why he had a hard time understanding why she changed her mind at the last minute.  Because he couldn't process what she did, he was consumed of trying to find answers. Hence,  trying to contact her twice, writing the letter and what he let slipped at the ATFR.  I think if Nick had any doubts of her feelings he wouldn't have tried to contact her and would never have written that heartbreaking letter.  I wish I were more articulate like some here but I can never be convinced that Andi was just acting with Nick and that she was in love with Josh all along.  The producers didn't see a Josh and Andi love story neither did I and so many others, therefore they couldn't show it during the show. Also, didn't do anything to showcase the A & J engagement because TB simply don't see their LS.  Jmo

just log in. tyring to catching up from the latest post...wow!what a busy night in Nick Nation  :cutesmile!: 
THIS. ITA with you Pia!. and i guess TPTB agree with you too : she changed her mind at the last minute--thus put the production team into chaos with so many impications : as Grace suggested: the ill fitting Josh'suit and the polka dot tie....and IMO, TPTB 'punished' her by no FRC flash back, no montage and the grumpy cat. (no..i wouldnt hide under the chair..im sticking with my opinion on this   )

this right up the alley of what Nick said on the plane vid and the edit supporting NnA LS with Love at the First Sight theme  :shocked!: . In fact, i and NR had spent quite some time and PM exchanged compiling and discussing the edit and media crumbs/evidences to support this theme *. So dont blame me if i think her 'acceptance speech' at FRC was part of the theme too...despite spoken to 'the other guy'   . now, i need to   :hidingchair 

i have differing opinion regarding post-filming Nick's actions (stalker-ish, MTA segment, MKE filming with Mary'S PI  :shocked!: ,the letter). I think its totally related to TPTB'd devious tricks to make him 'pay' for the leaked video, with 5 million dollar threat. Why? because Nick had said on the plane vid that he only told her 'disagree'. and he wouldnt try to make her pulling a 'Mesnick'. This doesnt bode well with all the post fiiming actions, IMO. A reasonable explanation for me was bc TPTB need to hype up some drama near finale for rating . The only logical attempt on his part IMO was his initiative to reach out Andi by phone, probably to clear things up/to get full closure.

*anyone interested can PM me  

[Guest]

That was hysterical!!!

Where did the video go?

[Guest]

What nice posts you all write.  So much easier to stay in this thread for so many reasons.   TBH, I am still shaking my head at the events that went down after the FD and beyond.  Unfortunately, I truly think Andi is stubborn enough to never give Nick a chance; she will never admit if she had feelings or not - she will always look to save face.  I do think Nick's true match is out there and hope that he finds someone else to have a mental, emotional, and physical connection with in the near future.  

It's probably not going to happen but can you imagine if she did change her mind,  we probably wouldn't know how to react.

OMG comes to mind   In truth, the tv Nick we've come to adore is a product of his past.  His "minute" engagement which when broken off bruised his ego by his own admission and led to a growth spurt that, in part, made him the man we see today.  Had we encountered him when he was at that stage in his life, he would have been a different version of himself.  
My point being, we have milestone moments in life that serve to provide opportunity to change our trajectory.  Choice is a matter of the mind and ,although past decisions are fixed in time, every new day is a new page in one's own life script.  We pen our own next step on the landscape of our life.

“New Beginnings are often disguised as painful endings.”
― Lao Tzu

just saw this..and love it...keep preaching NR girl!    

at this point,i certainly question Meandi's sincerity AND readiness for a happily ever after with anyone...You can tell Nick (and yes Josh too) are so ready for a life-time commitment, but Meandi?..hmm we'll see whether she is on the same page with both guys. In this perspective..tbh i can see her as the one who will be breaking up with her fiancee from the show for whatever reasons. I am sure the break off will be more difficult and nasty if he had chosen Nick, plus the fact that Nick had engagaged before. So yeah...in the end, the dumping turn out to be a blessing in disguise for Nick, i guess...

[Guest]

I agree with what you wrote. We are so used to have their lives in our face, LOL! How dare them do something without us knowing! Maybe we can ask Nick to let us install a little tracking device! LOL!

I am so happy Nick is with JJ! Still, the smile isn't reaching his eyes. Don't get mad, that's how I see it.

I agree that the smile is not reaching Nick's eyes yet.  I know that all of us here who were and remain TeamNick see what he was put through and base our conclusions on our own past experiences with love.  Some of you were lucky enough to find the "right one", which is wonderful.

So, even though my take on where Nick might be right now may not be the same as the majority here, I saw things differently.  I believe that Nick arrived at the AFTR meeting with Andi, expecting to find the woman that he remembered on the show.  I believe that he watched all of their scenes together, right up until when she let him go, believing that Andi did fall in love with him but was just scared, went with what he considered the safe choice.

I believe that Nick wrote that letter to Andi expressing how HE felt, expecting her to say that she really did care for him, maybe even say that she did love him but fell more in love with Josh.  I also believe that Nick wasn't there at the AFTR attempting to change her mind, and it could have gone entirely different had a different Andi, and not the icy cold women who had not even a ounce of compassion and understanding toward him, had showed up instead and had treated him with kindness.

So, I think that even though that was a good thing for Nick in the long run, he most likely left the AFTR wondering if he had been totally mislead by Andi - wondering if he somehow he had missed all the signs - and questioning how that could be.  Andi's demeanor toward him at the AFTR completely threw him off.  From my own experience, it is so much easier to move on after a breakup if you at least get confirmation that you mattered to your ex, that the feelings that your ex had for you were also real and genuine, even if you were not meant to be together.

IMO, Andi shattered that for Nick at the AFTR, and this probably set him back a little bit.  I think that Nick knows in his head that Andi is not who he thought she was, and he will be able to move on and find the right one for him.  But, I think that Nick's heart is still a step behind, and he is having to come to the realization that perhaps he did not really know Andi as well as he thought he did.  And, that is something that Nick may never know with certainty, but with time, it won't even matter anymore.  

I think that we will know when his head and heart are on the same page, you will see it in his eyes again.  He just needs time to help him completely heal.

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts Longhorn.

Totally agree that it's easier to move on from a break up if you at least get confirmation that you mattered... and here I really wish Andi had shown some compassion for Nick (like Jillian did with Reid).  It would have gone a long long way toward helping Nick heal AND keeping positive viewer support on Andi's side.

Based on what went down in the past week at ATFR and in the post ATFR media, I agree that Nick will reassess his feelings in light of Andi’s cold and unempathetic demeanor and it would make sense for him to come to a conclusion that he was being deceived.

But this is what I doubt and of course it's a very fine line because it probably comes down to an issue of timing (and has me recall Iloveromance's last video - when did you stop loving me).  Because at their LCD I could see that Andi was pulling back; but not before that. In general I thought Andi was all in.... and so I think the issue is whether you believe Andi was deceiving Nick (which I don’t) or whether she changed her mind (which I do).

Obviously to your point, it's something that Nick or we may never know with certainty, but with time, it won't even matter anymore…   

Good posts Longhorn and Sue!...i really enjoy everyone's take and observations on this thread...it enrich me on how i perceive this silly show and on the broader perspective, on love and life...i do wonder whether the majority of Nick fans are married ladies ...  .. it seems we can 'relate' to him and what he 'brought to the table'  based on our own experience..

[Guest]

“I love how people say that 'no regrets'. In hindsight you can always go back and change things. But again, over all, I was true to myself and I’m proud of that. I suppose I could always have said things differently or bit my tongue sometimes—without question maybe you’d go back and do things a little bit differently, but I certainly have no regrets about putting myself out there, no regrets about focusing on her and doing what I thought was best for our relationship.”
- Nick Viall

i missed this...where did this quote from, happy?....thanks for sharing!

oh and i saw your prev post about Chris-Des too...glad that you can enjoy them..  . I am ecstatic that their wedding now is already on the horizon!  :Woah-hoo: 

[Guest]

Nice post Mura.  That really left me wondering too.  Never quite seen a final couple that should be the show's new poster couple treated like that.  And they didn't get to watch their proposal back also.  Def a strange send off for the new couple by TPTB.  Curious as to why.

.thanks Relaxing. more than good to know that im not alone having this curio...    ..aha. oh yes!..How could i forget the Elephanty point: watching back their proposal?  :shocked!: . I mean, its the sole segment where we can watch the final couple got teary eyed and kissy2 cuddly2 watching their out-of-body moments     and MFnCO chose to not giving their beloved ADA that ?   . They had rewarded Meandi with the hottest bunch of guys ever for her stint with JPab at FS fiasco..but they couldnt honor her season with the final couple's memorable moments?...  

Oh well, maybe we will get our particular 'cat' regarding this curious matter when the time is right, relaxing...   

Here's what I think ... remember the #LiveLikeEric hashtag that Elan promoted so much at start of season? Remember how Josh didn't use the hashtag but Nick did (and Andi did too but I think she had to use it for PR purposes)? Well, I think the way that TPTB dedicated season to Eric was by focusing the show on Nick and his journey more so than Andi & Josh.

Nick and Eric obviously formed some type of bond during the very short time that show aired. Eric was a real guy who put it all out there and encouraged Andi to be genuine/do the same. Andi's response was anger and kicking him to curb.

Similar to Eric, Nick was also the guy who was genuine throughout. He put it all out there and can't recall his exact words but something along the lines of "giving into the process." And what happened to Nick? She kicked him to the curb too.

So many of us have said that if it wasn't for Nick, there would not have been a season. He was the reason we tuned in. Nick is someone who embodies the LiveLikeEric theme.

To dedicate the season to Eric meant focusing on his friend in the end ... NOT ... the woman who Eric called out to be a fake.

yep..i would think so too...the livelikeEric was definitely entitled to Nick, for what he brought to the table, risking it all for love, to not afraid live to the fullest, to do the best you can....the funny thing is, both have gotten the 'privvy'   to be exposed to a Poker Face Meandi right before they left the show. :shocked!: 

[Guest]

This is really good analysis, I'm impressed.  I had not noticed much of what you are talking about, I was wondering why ATFR felt like a continuation of the Nick show, and didn't realize so much was missing that usually is there, especially the happy couple re-watching their proposal, none of that was in, and as you said, no gift from the show.  The synopsis that you wrote Sue is really good too, just more evidence of Andi falling in love with Nick, could she really have faked it all?  I wish she would be honest about it.  In the People magazine video from AOL, she says she fell in love with Josh, and knew it was him at the end of the fantasy suite date when they were sitting in the kitchen, on the counter talking.  That is spin, in my opinion.  She wants to make it seem like she wasn't leading Nick on, because before she clearly said she fell in love with Josh when she first saw him.  (Would that be before the show when they met?  Or on the show?)  In any event, I just don't believe much of what she says now.  Plus, I'm not that interested, I'm much more interested in hearing about Nick. 

I thoroughly enjoy everyone's analysis!

..

we will never know what truly went down BTS.... not that my opinion matter.but i always seek a closure from the season i have invested in

my final personal take : her 'last minute' change happened during/after FD with Josh. and yes, i dont buy her 'spin off' story :she knew Josh was the one all along. Mind you, if this really what i saw, i will be the first ones who admitted it, since i totally pegged Josh for Andi pre-season .

that being said...doesnt mean i am against Nick moving on or..i have difficulty to move on..i just like to still discuss things on past seasons for my future sleuthing and fangirling reference

[Guest]

If you see him, ask him about the bracelet please.

As far as the clues this season, I'm a tad bitter about the crunchy peanut butter tweets from Nick and his dad. You don't screw with your most loyal fans and the timing leaves no doubt in my mind that they were.

Andi told her sister about how Nick sees her soul and describes the intensity at MTP. Seems like Nick is still the F1 at that moment. Then she's calling Josh "babe" in the next scene. Conclusion: by that point she was acting, so the only question is when did the acting begin or was it all an act? I'm sure poor Nick wonders that too.

Remember in the bloopers when Andi is doing an ITM and the toilet flushes? Andi laughs, "at least they're washing their hands." It could have been said during the season, but i sensed it was a laugh about Dylan (not washing hands) which would mean it was post filming. Was that a look at Andi faking her ITMs?

ITA with the ATFR being an extension of the Nick show and ending with grumpy cat. TPTB do not like Andi. She was a good sport about grumpy cat, but ouch! that was a jab at her, especially since the proposal was left out.

i shared the same sentiment with you Grace dear!   
i hate to leave so many unexplainable on the X-Files Folder regarding a season!...lets open the can of worms...  . I would rather deal with the awful truth rather than a beautiful lie   

Mura: per your post above regarding how TPTB treated the couple--
I don't think TPTB like Me and I. So this is what we got.
They probably had Nick between a rock and a hard place, because of the video, but I don't sense they steamrolled him.
The steamrolling appeared to be for the lead for so many reason, I can't even enumerate--it would be too lengthy a post and this isn't the thread.
Nick will be and is so fine!

grace and Kasha, to your bolded. it really is a huge surprise to me!   . i thought she was a darling for MFnCO since she had a really good start (by sucessfully throwing JPab, TPTB's 'enemy' under the bus   ). But with this new perspective, how they edited her during Eric saga and their final 'touch' for the final couple do make a lot more sense to me now.   . Thanks...(eventhough still wondering why? (TPTB dont like Meandi)   )

[happygolucky]

I just like to still discuss things on past seasons for my future sleuthing and fangirling reference

I like that too, actually I'm more inclined to discuss the process once it's over and I have clearer picture.
The problem with this season is, that if I envision how it probably all went down, it's very different from what I had in mind before the finale, so it's hard for me to reconcile and to understand where was the game-changer.
The reason I can hardly believe anymore that Andi had any deep feelings (of love) for Nick is that she chose Josh. Simple as that. I truly believe if she would really fall for Nick at any time on their journey, she would not be able to let him go. Of course I bought it with all her words and gushing about their great connection, but then with the facts, the way she behaved on their last day, I think she showed that something was lacking in their communication and connection too. Also I think a woman tends to look (search for) in a man something she sees in her father and there is something that Josh and her father Hy have, aside from the physical aspect, they are both very devoted to their family (I'm not saying Nick isn't, but they really did try to show us that bond between Josh & his siblings maybe for that reason) and have that strong-masculine presence of omnipotence, so maybe that was one thing that was a simple barrier to her heart, unconsciously.... (haven't slept at all, so right now I can't think too deep... maybe later in a day... have to get out, need to run)

[SueSt]

I still think that TB showed the LS that they saw and that was between Nick and Andi. I believe Andi got scared in the end and that's why she chose differently.  Nick is a very perceptive guy.  He's very aware of what's going on around him. Why would he let his guard down if he wasn't sure that Andi felt the same way about him?  He was sure of her reciprocating his feelings that's why he had a hard time understanding why she changed her mind at the last minute.  Because he couldn't process what she did, he was consumed of trying to find answers. Hence,  trying to contact her twice, writing the letter and what he let slipped at the ATFR.  I think if Nick had any doubts of her feelings he wouldn't have tried to contact her and would never have written that heartbreaking letter.  I wish I were more articulate like some here but I can never be convinced that Andi was just acting with Nick and that she was in love with Josh all along.  The producers didn't see a Josh and Andi love story neither did I and so many others, therefore they couldn't show it during the show. Also, didn't do anything to showcase the A & J engagement because TB simply don't see their LS.  Jmo

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Pia; I really appreciate and agree.   

I know that it's hard to advocate a N&A's LS in the face of what happened because it's so painful to think Andi 1. threw a great love away AND 2. was so cruel to Nick in the process... but I believe that's absolutely what happened... and again, regardless of what I personally think happened, that's what Nick felt happened.

I also agree, the producers showed us what they had... the N&A LS ... and, as I mentioned yesterday, and tipping my hat to a dear friend, possibly tried to support Nick in his quest to have Andi reconsider her decision by showcasing their LS story, having CH support Nick in his blog and flying Nick out during the MTA to try and broker a conversation between N&A. They certainly did nothing to support a J&A LS!

The pictures from this weekend were great to see. I'm so happy to see that Nick is moving on and that he has so many wonderful friends and fans around him to speed his recovery. But I also think his healing is going to be a process... 2 steps forward, 1 step back. One doesn't get over a once in a lifetime love, regardless of whether they were a straw image, in a matter of weeks. It takes time.

[SueSt]

Pia, I think producers see much more than we do, beside after they film and gather all the footage, they pretty much can do and show us whatever they want. That means they probably downplayed a lot of "connection" with Josh and the question is why. Why such a broad display of Nick&Andi interaction, why so much attention on Nick and his interactions with guys, his past relationships, his views on love and partnership? And this just during the season, then at the end with MTA and LCD and ATFR bringing all down.
Beside the storyboard for Nick was probably very clearly defined already by the 2nd episode, with the choice to not send him on any date, then to give him 1on1 in 3 ep., to film the conversation between some guys (Andrew-Marcus) talking about Nick's skepticism and if he is showing himself completely or playing a game (Marcus thoughts), so on so on... schedule of the dates was already defined, that means they had clear picture for making him front-runner and the whole drama among guys was also planned in advance and installed during filming, not some post-show effect. But during all this time they knew very good where is Andi with her feelings and still they encouraged Nick to get flowers, to sneak out, to write a letter (that he may had come up with the idea himself, long before) ... Ok my brain just froze ... stopped working... can't continue, I'm crashing. Need sleep.

Nick has said in a number of interviews that he, not the producers, were driving/responsible for his actions (flowers, sneak out, speaking about making love at the ATFR, etc..) With regard to the other guys, he also acknowledged that he could/should have shut his mouth on a number of occasions.

You can say that the producers edited and shaped Nick's actions to shape a love story (or produce the bro-drama), but why would the editors hold back a J&A LS if they had it; if anything showcasing a second LS would confuse the viewers and make for a better show.

Nick has intimated that he may have been misled by the process; but maintains that what he felt for Andi was real.

[nutty1]

Here's the deal. Nick (and Josh and the others left toward the end)…..they did not see what Andi had with the other guys, only with them. In his little world, each of the F4 could have thought they were the one, that they had the best relationship with her. Josh fans think they saw a wonderful love story. I think it was there with Nick and Josh for us to see.

Anyway, I have decided it is time to move on and stop questioning what happened. I will look so forward to continued SM updates from Nick!

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