Re: Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 9 - Fantasy Dates - July 14/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* - Discussion - Thread #2

[Hotmomma]

^^ Why? I am not going to say that I know that Josh is F1, when all I "know" is that Nick is F2.   

All is good!

[ironcat]

I don't think her reactions to either give it away.  I know the edit turned very pro-Josh, but man she was happy listening to Nick talk!

I don't know that Josh got the most beautiful FS, because they didn't show us any of Nick's FS.  Again, no proof of who had the better FS.

Very true, but that could lead one to speculate that perhaps they didn't show Nick's FS room (which is unusual) because it was not anywhere near as lavish as Josh's was, and they were afraid the difference would be too much of a clue to who Andi was favoring.   

During Jillian's season they didn't show Reid and Jilly going to the FS.  We know from SC's that they did (that were shown in previews), although the edit suggested that Reid and Jilly did not.

That wasn't the "official" FS episode, that was the extra episode in Spain, though. They did show her with Reid in the FS in Hawaii, she was desperately trying to get him to say ILY the whole time, so it was memorable.   

I would imagine that part of the deal with the hotel that comps the rooms is that the suites are televised for the free publicity, so it makes me more likely to believe that not giving a tour of Nick's on camera was deliberate.

[Longhornfan]

It's a lovely thought, mia, but in 20+ seasons, the producers have NEVER done anything kind for contestants which would also minimize shock and drama for the show, and I doubt they will start now.  On the contrary, they most likely told Nick repeatedly that he had this in the bag.  It's what they do.

This is what I think happened.  Nick was told over and over that he was Andi's favorite.  Heck, he even told him mom that in a conversation during his HTD.  No wonder he felt like he had this in the bag.  For someone who entered into this show with so much skepticism, Nick was converted into a believer, not only by his handler but by Andi herself.  Nick had been given every reason to believe that he was Andi's favorite - being feed that by his handler, by the producers and even by how Andi continued to treat him throughout the show.

All I can say for Andi is job well done.  Job well done, Andi.  I did not see Andi giving Nick any big clues during the FS episode that would have made Nick start to doubt what the producers were feeding him.  Instead, it appears just the opposite.  I have come to the conclusion that I am way to sensitive a person to be able to celebrate the happiness of one contestant while watching the other one be manipulated all the way to the end, only to have his heart crushed.  I agree with Emusha that this is a cruel, sadistic way to play with people's lives.  Nick did not deserve this, and the producers knew going into this that he had already had two very rough breakups in his past.

And as for Andi possibly telling Josh that he had the most expensive FS and therefore meant that she already knew at that time that Josh was her F1, then (if that is true) that is even more proof that Andi was continuing to be the good little soldier and leading Nick to the slaughter.  For some, that is just the nature of the beast (Fleiss and company), but I personally can not take any pleasure in watching this all play out, according to the spoilers.

Maybe I am too kind hearted, because I can not stand to watch other people get hurt.  Maybe I can identify more with Nick, since Andi's one word description of him was the word sensitive.  Maybe it is that I just can't get onboard the Josh train, for reasons that I just can't put me finger on, but I will only watch the last episode up until Nick is let go, and then I will turn off my tv, and I will be done with this season.

[isittrue]

It's a lovely thought, mia, but in 20+ seasons, the producers have NEVER done anything kind for contestants which would also minimize shock and drama for the show, and I doubt they will start now.  On the contrary, they most likely told Nick repeatedly that he had this in the bag.  It's what they do.

This is what I think happened.  Nick was told over and over that he was Andi's favorite.  Heck, he even told him mom that in a conversation during his HTD.  No wonder he felt like he had this in the bag.  For someone who entered into this show with so much skepticism, Nick was converted into a believer, not only by his handler but by Andi herself.  Nick had been given every reason to believe that he was Andi's favorite - being feed that by his handler, by the producers and even by how Andi continued to treat him throughout the show.

All I can say for Andi is job well done.  Job well done, Andi.  I did not see Andi giving Nick any big clues during the FS episode that would have made Nick start to doubt what the producers were feeding him.  Instead, it appears just the opposite.  I have come to the conclusion that I am way to sensitive a person to be able to celebrate the happiness of one contestant while watching the other one be manipulated all the way to the end, only to have his heart crushed.  I agree with Emusha that this is a cruel, sadistic way to play with people's lives.  Nick did not deserve this, and the producers knew going into this that he had already had two very rough breakups in his past.

And as for Andi possibly telling Josh that he had the most expensive FS and therefore meant that she already knew at that time that Josh was her F1, then (if that is true) that is even more proof that Andi was continuing to be the good little soldier and leading Nick to the slaughter.  For some, that is just the nature of the beast (Fleiss and company), but I personally can not take any pleasure in watching this all play out, according to the spoilers.

Maybe I am too kind hearted, because I can not stand to watch other people get hurt.  Maybe I can identify more with Nick, since Andi's one word description of him was the word sensitive.  Maybe it is that I just can't get onboard the Josh train, for reasons that I just can't put me finger on, but I will only watch the last episode up until Nick is let go, and then I will turn off my tv, and I will be done with this season.

Longhornfan, I feel as though you have read my mind. I find it hard too to jump onboard the Josh train and gush about the couple's happiness when I see how much manipulation is involved in this. I even cringed at the look she exchanged with Josh when she gave Nick the first rose at the last RC. She basically is letting him know that he has got this wrapped up. I will join you in watching the show until she mercifully lets Nick go and then I too will turn off the tv. I apologize if I offend anyone by saying that I am not a Jodi fan and really don't care to follow their story when the show is over.

[GuardianAngel]

When stating opinions, please use IMO In My Opinion, unless it's fact that can be proven. There are too many posts to delete that have the offending post in it. I will leave it as is. Please do not quote any further.

Thanks to those who posted the reminders of IMO "your opinion".

[Alanna]

Longhornfan, I feel as though you have read my mind.  I find it hard too to jump onboard the Josh train and gush about the couple's happiness when I see how much manipulation is involved in this.  I even cringed at the look she exchanged with Josh when she gave Nick the first rose at the last RC.  She basically is letting him know that he has got this wrapped up.  I will join you in watching the show until she mercifully lets Nick go and then I too will turn off the tv. I apologize if I offend anyone by saying that I am not a Jodi fan and really don't care to follow their story when the show is over.

I feel bad for Nick but after rewatching that rc, I don't know how Nick can ignore that he's done now? If Andi and Josh could have given him more signals, they really would have just been all over each other imo. Josh grunted/growled at her when he got his rose and the entire meeting her parents conversation was between Josh and Andi. His demeanor is not shy about claiming her, which is what she wanted so I'm down with it too, but I think Nick should have picked up on it too.

[emusha]

http://abc.go.com/shows/the-bachelorette/video/PL5569765/VDKA0_abdrbkvf

(The deleted scenes from F.Date episodes)

I don't think her reactions to either give it away.  I know the edit turned very pro-Josh, but man she was happy listening to Nick talk!

I don't know that Josh got the most beautiful FS, because they didn't show us any of Nick's FS.  Again, no proof of who had the better FS.

I actually do think her reactions give it away...watch her switch expressions before the videos started playing and as they ended very clear shifts for her watching Nick ...she has a poker face smile (looks forced to me) when watching Nicks but it switches very drastically before his vid comes on and after...her face is much more tense and she seems slighty uncomfortable IMO -- i think she possibly already made her choice during FD. Her face is relaxed and changes appropriately when Josh is speaking vs. a plastered smile  .

The thing I actually loved loved is how diff these videos are
Nick tells her he loves the fact that their connection grows over time and he is excited to get to know her more and more
Josh said he loves her more than anything in the world

Nick sees her as his equal -- his partner-in-crime...Josh sees her as his queen -- his prize -- VERY diff perspectives and her choice will show us what she wants to be with someone in this stage in her life.

[ironcat]

At the end of the day, how do you really determine who you fall in love with? It just comes down to a feeling, IMO, of who makes you feel more special, who you can't picture your life without, and I suspect that was how Andi decided which guy it was, not by who checked off more boxes on a laundry list. I agree that there seem to be several clues during this episode that her decision has been reached and it's Josh, even if she still feels she wants to get her family's approval of him before being 1000% sure.

Regarding leading Nick on, I feel like a broken record, but it happens every season. Many have been saying weeks ago, that once Andi decided between the 2, she would start subtly (because the producers won't let you do anything drastic) pulling back with the other one, and perhaps we are starting to see that. It will be interesting to watch the finale and see whether it looks like she is sending any signals to Nick at all. Of course, under the circumstances, the F2 often doesn't pick up on them because of their own self defense mechanisms kicking in, combined with producer misdirection.

As bad as it looks at the time when your favorite isn't chosen, history has shown that the F2s get over it much quicker than their fans do. They also often say that the experience, although heartbreaking at the time, was still a worthwhile one. Nick certainly appears very happy on SM now. I'm sure his immediate future will be very bright.

[Jeepers]

Longhornfan, I feel as though you have read my mind.  I find it hard too to jump onboard the Josh train and gush about the couple's happiness when I see how much manipulation is involved in this.  I even cringed at the look she exchanged with Josh when she gave Nick the first rose at the last RC.  She basically is letting him know that he has got this wrapped up.  I will join you in watching the show until she mercifully lets Nick go and then I too will turn off the tv. I apologize if I offend anyone by saying that I am not a Jodi fan and really don't care to follow their story when the show is over.

I feel bad for Nick but after rewatching that rc, I don't know how Nick can ignore that he's done now? If Andi and Josh could have given him more signals, they really would have just been all over each other imo. Josh grunted/growled at her when he got his rose and the entire meeting her parents conversation was between Josh and Andi. His demeanor is not shy about claiming her, which is what she wanted so I'm down with it too, but I think Nick should have picked up on it too.

But how could that be .. seeing as the guys don't see or chat with other after the episode that leads to HTDs .. They are completed separated from each other .. So Nick would see none of anything

[Cecilia]

Longhornfan, I feel as though you have read my mind.  I find it hard too to jump onboard the Josh train and gush about the couple's happiness when I see how much manipulation is involved in this.  I even cringed at the look she exchanged with Josh when she gave Nick the first rose at the last RC.  She basically is letting him know that he has got this wrapped up.  I will join you in watching the show until she mercifully lets Nick go and then I too will turn off the tv. I apologize if I offend anyone by saying that I am not a Jodi fan and really don't care to follow their story when the show is over.

I feel bad for Nick but after rewatching that rc, I don't know how Nick can ignore that he's done now? If Andi and Josh could have given him more signals, they really would have just been all over each other imo. Josh grunted/growled at her when he got his rose and the entire meeting her parents conversation was between Josh and Andi. His demeanor is not shy about claiming her, which is what she wanted so I'm down with it too, but I think Nick should have picked up on it too.

I didn't notice that and I have watched it 2-3 times. I think we clearly all see what we want to see. Like I saw right after she looked at Nick, he looked away and smiled, almost embarrassed that he had to share this moment with Josh. So, there you have it.

[GuardianAngel]

The camera was pretty quick, and was filming from behind Andi. Are we sure Nick in fact got the first rose and they didn't pull a switcheroo for editing purposes? The reason I say that is because I noticed Nick looked away and smiled too as if to say whew, jokingly (desert humour) another example of how we see things differently , but I have not re watched it. Just curious.

[isittrue]

Yeah, I only watched once and just saw the smile between J and A but maybe I am just biased to think the worst right now as a Nick fan.

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