Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 Contestant - Spoilers - Discussion - Thread #4

[sdmom]

Now I got it!! Poor Nick ,he really is misunderstood!!!
So, Nick tweeted" "I really need stop quoting anchorman... Or just work on my comedic timing.. Hopefully the latter"

I googled Anchorman, and here 's the quote:
"I know that one day, Veronica and I are gonna get married on top of a mountain. '
then he just kept going and made some more jokes.
No wonder he said his humor is dryer than a desert!

[cindebugg]

It's not a likeable clip. Someone needs to remind me why I am teamnick. I think I am wavering a little after that clip.

I'll help you. He was probably feeling insecure and threatened and it's his coping mechanism. I doubt he meant any harm to Josh or Andi, or even thought about the repercussions of people seeing it.

But it illustrates why Josh is right for her imo- calm under pressure, protective, and strong.

Some see this as Nick being rude about his friend Josh.  Well please remember Josh was part of the mean girl talk about Nick before he got back from SQT.  Neither had the courtesy to actually say what they thought to each others faces.

Plenty of immature behavior to go around this episode.

Cecilia, it is okay if this makes you not like Nick, we are all free to our own opinions.  Just like I think last nights boy bitching session was silly and over done, I find this silly and over done.  

It is obvious these guys were ready to be away from each other.  So much like Ashley's season.  Her F6 were practically begging to get away from each other.

You might want to go back and watch the clip again. Josh said he was sick of the game playing and he agreed with the guys that Nick was a salesman. When Nick came in Josh let the guys who had been on the group date take the lead but he did step in and say something to Nick. He was just more diplomatic about it.

[MiaHawk]

I agree, the tweets do lack class. I wasn't debating that at all. I don't know how anyone got that idea from my post.

I understood what you meant. Someone said that on another thread too. No worries.

At this point in filming, I still think Nick was ahead with Andi. Their relationship was farther along and on more levels. I can't help but feel like Nick is who she should be with, but a Josh "trophy husband" type is what she feels is sort of expected of her from her family, if that makes any sense. It's unspoken, but she wants to make her parents proud, happy, etc. When they meet Josh their approval will be instant.

^^^Thank you, thank you, thank you! THIS is what I've been trying to summarize, but every time I sat down to type a post, I couldn't figure out how to put my gut feelings into the proper words. What you described here, the "trophy husband", the expectations of her family, this is the exact same vibe I've gotten about her. I think that finding a tall, dark, handsome, well-off, (locally?)-famous athlete who is related to (nationally?)-famous brother athlete, fits the STATUS that Andi feels she should achieve. Don't get me wrong...I know that finding a local guy to fall in love with would make their lives a lot easier and make it more likely that they could make at go at the relationship. I also think Andi and Josh have a great deal in common. But, I am of the opinion that Andi and Josh may be too much alike and therefore butt heads, and I am also of the opinion that Andi is under great pressure from her family's (especially father's) expectations that she will not only find a nice wealthy, stand-up guy, but also a guy who brings with him a certain cache and status. Mr Dorfman wants someone of his echelon for his daughter. Nick and Marcus don't bring that status with them. Chris may be a millionaire, but he is a rural farmer who probably isn't into the glitchy circles, so Andi would not be able to continue living the lifestyle that she is accustomed to (she'd have the money to buy the clothes, shoes, travel--but her inlaws and MIL don't look like they are the sort to be materialistic or concered one iota over status). Josh is the one who can bring all of those things and the increased status (and by relation, his echelon would rise too). Can't you just picture him bragging about his SIL because he's blah blah blah (and by blah blah blah I don't mean kind, sweet, caring. Even if he is all of those things, it is the status, the echelon, the cache that Mr Dorfman will focus on with his golfing buddies.). We are about to see a huge HTD lovefest. And if you don't think that Andi's parents are going to have a huge say in who she picks, then you're really not watching this show, this family, this Bachelorette. Money, power, status---she craves it all. See, education can get you money. Money and hard work can get you to a position of power. But status is the tricky one. It's like being part of the Popular Clique in HS; it's all about who you know or who you date (or in this case, marry). JMHO

[FLChica]

I just think it shows that Josh is bitter about something.... even months after the end of this season...probably from the comments in the plane vid which were very private thoughts from a heartbroken man that someone recorded? Nick's joke in the deleted scene about Josh not being a fit isn't that serious --- honestly he didn't say anything significant...and I don't know if we can read anything significant about either of them from these tweets other than were they stand with each other. Josh seems ticked off at nick which isn't surprising given nick's edit but this doesn't bode very well for his temperament going into the aftr....

It seems that Nick is taking all of it in stride, and Josh seems angry. If Josh is the F1, he has to feel quite a but of jealously towards Nick, especially since Andi describes him as "so hot" and that "she is connected with him physically and emotionally."

ITA with both posts and it sums up the situation to me. Josh didn't enjoy not having control over the situation and it shows. I suspect he is accustomed to people liking him, deferring to him and accepting what he says without question. The lie detector date was one example; there are many others. For an older, less attractive and less physically imposing man to be his main competition for MeAndi has to sting. The whole world is seeing "his" woman all over Nick and singing his praises for taking charge and being a man - ouch!

It's amusing to watch Josh react to every perceived slight from Nick. Then to have so many of the guys step up for Nick on SM is yet another smack in the face. Poor fella.

[stuckinsc]

I'll help you. He was probably feeling insecure and threatened and it's his coping mechanism. I doubt he meant any harm to Josh or Andi, or even thought about the repercussions of people seeing it.

But it illustrates why Josh is right for her imo- calm under pressure, protective, and strong.

Some see this as Nick being rude about his friend Josh.  Well please remember Josh was part of the mean girl talk about Nick before he got back from SQT.  Neither had the courtesy to actually say what they thought to each others faces.

Plenty of immature behavior to go around this episode.

Cecilia, it is okay if this makes you not like Nick, we are all free to our own opinions.  Just like I think last nights boy bitching session was silly and over done, I find this silly and over done.  

It is obvious these guys were ready to be away from each other.  So much like Ashley's season.  Her F6 were practically begging to get away from each other.

You might want to go back and watch the clip again.  Josh said he was sick of the game playing and he agreed with the guys that Nick was a salesman. When Nick came in Josh let the guys who had been on the group date take the lead but he did step in and say something to Nick.  He was just more diplomatic about it.  

I actually did watch it and pay attention. We are each entitled to our own opinions. And Nick wasn't playing a game, he was actually following the advice of CH to stop bromancing and focus on Andi and working with the feedback given to him by Andi.

As far of none of these guys having never watched the show, then how the heck were they all so excited it was Andi? If they didn't watch JPG's season at all why on earth would they know Andi?

Like I said plenty of bad behavior to go around.

[MiaHawk]

I just think it shows that Josh is bitter about something.... even months after the end of this season...probably from the comments in the plane vid which were very private thoughts from a heartbroken man that someone recorded? Nick's joke in the deleted scene about Josh not being a fit isn't that serious --- honestly he didn't say anything significant...and I don't know if we can read anything significant about either of them from these tweets other than were they stand with each other. Josh seems ticked off at nick which isn't surprising given nick's edit but this doesn't bode very well for his temperament going into the aftr....

It seems that Nick is taking all of it in stride, and Josh seems angry.  If Josh is the F1, he has to feel quite a but of jealously towards Nick, especially since Andi describes him as "so hot" and that "she is connected with him physically and emotionally."  

ITA with both posts and it sums up the situation to me.   Josh didn't enjoy not having control over the situation and it shows.  I suspect he is accustomed to people liking him, deferring to him and accepting what he says without question.  The lie detector date was one example; there are many others.  For an older, less attractive and less physically imposing man to be his main competition for MeAndi has to sting.  The whole world is seeing "his" woman all over Nick and singing his praises for taking charge and being a man - ouch!

It's amusing to watch Josh react to every perceived slight from Nick.  Then to have so many of the guys step up for Nick on SM is yet another smack in the face.  Poor fella.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. You nailed it!

[Guest]

I agree, the tweets do lack class. I wasn't debating that at all. I don't know how anyone got that idea from my post.

I understood what you meant. Someone said that on another thread too. No worries.

At this point in filming, I still think Nick was ahead with Andi. Their relationship was farther along and on more levels. I can't help but feel like Nick is who she should be with, but a Josh "trophy husband" type is what she feels is sort of expected of her from her family, if that makes any sense. It's unspoken, but she wants to make her parents proud, happy, etc. When they meet Josh their approval will be instant.

^^^Thank you, thank you, thank you!  THIS is what I've been trying to summarize, but every time I sat down to type a post, I couldn't figure out how to put my gut feelings into the proper words.  What you described here, the "trophy husband", the expectations of her family, this is the exact same vibe I've gotten about her.  I think that finding a tall, dark, handsome, well-off, (locally?)-famous athlete who is related to (nationally?)-famous brother athlete, fits the STATUS that Andi feels she should achieve.  Don't get me wrong...I know that finding a local guy to fall in love with would make their lives a lot easier and make it more likely that they could make at go at the relationship.  I also think Andi and Josh have a great deal in common.  But, I am of the opinion that Andi and Josh may be too much alike and therefore butt heads, and I am also of the opinion that Andi is under great pressure from her family's (especially father's) expectations that she will not only find a nice wealthy, stand-up guy, but also a guy who brings with him a certain cache and status.  Mr Dorfman wants someone of his echelon for his daughter.  Nick and Marcus don't bring that status with them.  Chris may be a millionaire, but he is a rural farmer who probably isn't into the glitchy circles, so Andi would not be able to continue living the lifestyle that she is accustomed to (she'd have the money to buy the clothes, shoes, travel--but her inlaws and MIL don't look like they are the sort to be materialistic or concered one iota over status).  Josh is the one who can bring all of those things and the increased status (and by relation, his echelon would rise too).  Can't you just picture him bragging about his SIL because he's blah blah blah (and by blah blah blah I don't mean kind, sweet, caring.  Even if he is all of those things, it is the status, the echelon, the cache that Mr Dorfman will focus on with his golfing buddies.).  We are about to see a huge HTD lovefest.  And if you don't think that Andi's parents are going to have a huge say in who she picks, then you're really not watching this show, this family, this Bachelorette.  Money, power, status---she craves it all.  See, education can get you money.  Money and hard work can get you to a position of power. But status is the tricky one.  It's like being part of the Popular Clique in HS; it's all about who you know or who you date (or in this case, marry). JMHO

   This is exactly what I was thinking earlier. I started to post something similar but backed away because my previous post was taken out of context.

[cindebugg]

I still think Nick has a good head on his shoulders, judging by his tweets #lifeoutsidethebubble now he's back to the real world. Clearly no one likes group dates, even Josh, I guess they just reacted to it differently. I remember back in Brad I, Bettina's dad said someone has to be the bad guy after her horrible HTD. In this season, TPTB  picked Nick, maybe them sensed his sarcastic humor  could easily lost to others in such unnatural environment, or his way over eagerness to cooperate to get more time with Andi, who knows? Take another cue from the man himself: you have #takethegoodwiththebad. Nick I hope it's worthwhile and you have no regrets.

Okay, so as someone who has probably had too much education, yes sadly this is my combined ninth years of graduate school, add five years of undergrad and way too much education.  Nick has the sarcastic humor I see a lot with people who are well educated, I think that is why he and JJ clicked.  JJ is incredibly well educated as well, Stanford business school is no joke.  There is also a bit of arrogance that comes with being well educated and very good at what you do.  I sprained my ankle last Wednesday and it is not getting better, so my doctor decided to send me for an x-ray to make sure that there wasn't something serious wrong.  When I told my hubby this over the phone he questioned it and was totally annoying.  I had to remind him he has a PhD in Chemistry not an MD, so I was going to go with the MD's advice.  I frequently tell my otherwise nice and generous husband that he doesn't know everything.  

Maybe I like Nick because he reminds me of so many men that I do know.  Plus, I think at this point of the show he was over it and ready to just focus on Andi and nothing else.  Compare him to JP in episode 7 of Ashley's season, really go watch it.  Both highly intelligent, successful men competing for an intelligent woman and both so over the whole process of being around the other guys.  Don't just try to remember it, go watch it.  Watch Lucas trash talk JP, watch Ben and Constantine get annoyed with JP.  Ames didn't get annoyed, but then again I am not sure Ames gets annoyed.  Ryan P was let go early, so he wasn't in most of the scenes.  Nick this week is so much like JP then.

Does Nick win the girl?  I hope not.  Between Kelly's tweets, Andi's desire to jump Josh and her MeAndi behavior, I don't want that for Nick.

But it makes me less annoyed by this behavior.

Of and BTW, Nick said last night that he watched all of Des's season.  Not sure if he had seen others.

I do think this is just Nick and what I also notice is that these guys that were so angry with him, seem very happy to be around him now.  Brian and he skype now each Monday night during the show right?  Chris visited with him in Chicago, just maybe they realized that their own tiredness and crankiness made them take Nick a little too seriously?  

I LOL at the bolded part. Your husband cares about you very much, you are very lucky indeed.
The other thing about Andi: last night before RC, Nick was upset, probably exhausted mentally, as he talked to Andi. She struck me as not very nurturing, at least at that moment. I wonder if she can give as much as she receive?

So Andi, the lead who has the most pressure and responsibility on her is supposed to stop and coddle this guy who's had a 1-1, a sneak over, extra time on the GD and a freakin rose on his chest? All the while she has a rose ceremony coming up in just a few minutes where she is going to send 2 really great guys home. I didn't hear Nick nurturing her.

[cindebugg]

OMG - if this doesn't showcase their key differences, I don't know what will.
One is self-deprecating, charming and funny - totally attractive
The other egotistical, holier than thou and over-confident - unattractive

I don't agree with the negative connotations but I agree with your overall thought. Nick is self-deprecating and sarcastic and funny, Josh is serious and strong and protective. And I think Andi, from everything she has ever shared, definitely wants the latter. I think if things turned out differently and everyone wasn't fighting and subtweeting each other (), Andi and Nick really could have been great friends, but Josh is the SO she needs and wants.

I just think it shows that Josh is bitter about something.... even months after the end of this season...probably from the comments in the plane vid which were very private thoughts from a heartbroken man that someone recorded? Nick's joke in the deleted scene about Josh not being a fit isn't that serious --- honestly he didn't say anything significant...and I don't know if we can read anything significant about either of them from these tweets other than were they stand with each other. Josh seems ticked off at nick which isn't surprising given nick's edit but this doesn't bode very well for his temperament going into the aftr....

He doesn't act heartbroken in that video. Especially considering it was only 2 days after the FRC. I think Josh and Andi have every right to be bitter towards the jerk. He spoiled the season, he acted like a spoiled brat in the house, he's liked tweets that are negative towards Andi and Josh and now he wants to act like it's everyone's fault because they just don't get his humor. Maybe Nick should realize he might not be as funny as he thinks he is.

[docnash14]

I agree, the tweets do lack class. I wasn't debating that at all. I don't know how anyone got that idea from my post.

I understood what you meant. Someone said that on another thread too. No worries.

At this point in filming, I still think Nick was ahead with Andi. Their relationship was farther along and on more levels. I can't help but feel like Nick is who she should be with, but a Josh "trophy husband" type is what she feels is sort of expected of her from her family, if that makes any sense. It's unspoken, but she wants to make her parents proud, happy, etc. When they meet Josh their approval will be instant.

^^^Thank you, thank you, thank you!  THIS is what I've been trying to summarize, but every time I sat down to type a post, I couldn't figure out how to put my gut feelings into the proper words.  What you described here, the "trophy husband", the expectations of her family, this is the exact same vibe I've gotten about her.  I think that finding a tall, dark, handsome, well-off, (locally?)-famous athlete who is related to (nationally?)-famous brother athlete, fits the STATUS that Andi feels she should achieve.  Don't get me wrong...I know that finding a local guy to fall in love with would make their lives a lot easier and make it more likely that they could make at go at the relationship.  I also think Andi and Josh have a great deal in common.  But, I am of the opinion that Andi and Josh may be too much alike and therefore butt heads, and I am also of the opinion that Andi is under great pressure from her family's (especially father's) expectations that she will not only find a nice wealthy, stand-up guy, but also a guy who brings with him a certain cache and status.  Mr Dorfman wants someone of his echelon for his daughter.  Nick and Marcus don't bring that status with them.  Chris may be a millionaire, but he is a rural farmer who probably isn't into the glitchy circles, so Andi would not be able to continue living the lifestyle that she is accustomed to (she'd have the money to buy the clothes, shoes, travel--but her inlaws and MIL don't look like they are the sort to be materialistic or concered one iota over status).  Josh is the one who can bring all of those things and the increased status (and by relation, his echelon would rise too).  Can't you just picture him bragging about his SIL because he's blah blah blah (and by blah blah blah I don't mean kind, sweet, caring.  Even if he is all of those things, it is the status, the echelon, the cache that Mr Dorfman will focus on with his golfing buddies.).  We are about to see a huge HTD lovefest.  And if you don't think that Andi's parents are going to have a huge say in who she picks, then you're really not watching this show, this family, this Bachelorette.  Money, power, status---she craves it all.  See, education can get you money.  Money and hard work can get you to a position of power. But status is the tricky one.  It's like being part of the Popular Clique in HS; it's all about who you know or who you date (or in this case, marry). JMHO

This may be true, albeit what impressed me the most during Andi's conversation with her dad at the M & G was when they were talking about the "journey" on which she was about to embark. Andi said something like, "I know I need to choose the best one." Her dad countered with "the best one for you."

[cindebugg]

I don't agree with the negative connotations but I agree with your overall thought. Nick is self-deprecating and sarcastic and funny, Josh is serious and strong and protective. And I think Andi, from everything she has ever shared, definitely wants the latter. I think if things turned out differently and everyone wasn't fighting and subtweeting each other (), Andi and Nick really could have been great friends, but Josh is the SO she needs and wants.

I just think it shows that Josh is bitter about something.... even months after the end of this season...probably from the comments in the plane vid which were very private thoughts from a heartbroken man that someone recorded? Nick's joke in the deleted scene about Josh not being a fit isn't that serious --- honestly he didn't say anything significant...and I don't know if we can read anything significant about either of them from these tweets other than were they stand with each other. Josh seems ticked off at nick which isn't surprising given nick's edit but this doesn't bode very well for his temperament going into the aftr....

It seems that Nick is taking all of it in stride, and Josh seems angry.  If Josh is the F1, he has to feel quite a but of jealously towards Nick, especially since Andi describes him as "so hot" and that "she is connected with him physically and emotionally."  

I don't know why Josh would be jealous now. He got the girl and Nick is hugging his pillow. Josh doesn't seem like the jealous type but Nick's behavior in the house leads me to believe he's rather chummy with the green eyed monster. Especially when it came to Josh.

[Guest]

Kasha, I want the all to run like Forest too!  Great movie reference.

I don't think either Josh's tweet or Nick's tweet are worth all of us getting our panties in a wad.  They were ambiguous at best.  

The Joshie I love is a Leo, and sometimes when you pock that cat the lion roars. On that note it made me laugh.  Especially since Andi is an Aries, the ram, so kind of a sheep.  In my fantasy world it is a know on Andi.  I can be delusional until July 28 th all I want.

Nick's tweets to me make fun of himself.  Like, opps, got to learn not to be such a smart ass.  As I said he comes off like a highly educated and intelligent guy.  So much like so many men I know and have had crushes on and heck even one that I married.

I don't have kids, so I won't tell any of you who do, how you should act towards them and their choices of who they love.

But, I will speak from my experience.  My mom was so crazy that she knew what was best for me, that she invited one ex-boyfriend to come stay with us in South Florida from New Orleans, because I was so wrong to let go of the only guy who would ever love me like that.  He married the girl he was cheating on me with a year and a half later.  Go mom.

This same mom, also made me set a wedding date with hubby number one, when both of us were happy to have a long engagement.  I think we both knew we shouldn't be together but were unwilling to give each other up yet.  She booked the church, the caterer, of and picked out the wedding colors too.

So nope, not all parents really want what is best for their child and some parents need to realize that their child may know what is better for them in the long run.

I've got 3 kids, so I'm giving the Dorfmans the benefit of the doubt about this theory of mine being outright intentional on their part, though maybe in your mom's case she overstepped.    (Glad things eventually worked out for you!) My niece dated a guy that loved to fly small planes just like her dad. Her bf and her dad became buddies and went flying on weekends. She told me she dated him 6 months longer than she really wanted to because her dad thought he was so great! Of course her dad would not have wanted this for her, but family dynamics are messed up like that. In Andi's case, Hy will be excited to meet Josh and after the last loser she brought home that will make Andi proud of herself.  I'm sure they'll be nice to Nick, but w/o trying to do so, (I'm guessing) they will give that round to Josh. Could that account for her last moment change of heart that Nick mentioned? Who knows.. but I'm curious to see how the MTP goes.

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