Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 Contestant - Spoilers - Discussion - Thread #2

[MVMom39forever]

So in other words, Andi did a really good job of leading Nick on!    Dare we call her a good actress??

Maybe it was like Nick said, she did change her mind at the last minute. Maybe she changed it because:

- She realized she loved Josh (or Marcus or Chris or even Cody, who knowws )
- She was scared sh!tless and picked "what she is used to option"
- She was scared that he wasn't "all in"

If this happened then she wasn't really leading him on

Or maybe the script was always for her to pick Josh, after JPG season they needed a happily ever after, this was the producer's shot.

Or maybe it was gameover from the start with one of the other guys (Josh, Marcus or Chris) and Nick was just a plot point.

There are a lot of maybes and what ifs, I am going to wait and see what happens on air and post show to reserve judgement at this time. All IMO of course  

I know my theory is controversial, but I go back to my first gut feeling. Andi and Josh had already met before the filming. He went into the show as the targeted one for Andi. Their behavior together from the beginning without even a 1 on 1 just accentuates this belief for me. Plus there was a poster (I think Imelda Marcos) that mentioned her fiancée knew of the Murrays and claimed  he already knew the storyboard, that was at the beginning of filming. There is also the rumors Chloep mentioned about them being together, true or not? Well, so far all the info about Nick has panned out, so is possible the rumors about Josh and Andi could be true.

In the above scenario, Andi still had a show to do and had to choose someone as her F2 and convinced him to propose. That someone had to fit the description of not her usual type. I do think she was very attracted to Nick and they had a lot in common intellectually, so he became the sacrificial lamb.

Now, if Nick is F1 ( I wish), then I have been completely fool, and I applaud all the cast and crew involved in such an extraordinary foiler.

I could buy into this one! I swear watching unspoiled for the first four episodes is the way to go as you have no favorites and no over-thinking scenes. It's all just gut reaction.

With that said, my initial gut reaction for Josh was 1) Next Bachelor and 2) Scripted. I could not believe that a guy THAT good looking and clearly with a BIG personality who just oozes confidence and is a grown-a$$ MAN ... would be so nervous around Andi. She's pretty but surely Josh has been around other pretty girls as a former pro athlete. He just did not ring true to me on first ep. Then when he went in for the long passionate kiss in ep 2, I was like ... WTH, I thought you were nervous around her?? Evidently not! Then I think it was episode 3 and Josh/Andi alone time together ... I was like WTH? How did they get that comfortable and with that much chemistry, that quickly, when Josh has yet to have a one on one date? Fishy ...

So I am torn at this stage ... and getting back to Nick V ... I do think that Nick and Andi have had the most natural progression so far and he seems genuine and as we've heard from Andi ... she is most comfortable with him and they connect on physical/mental level. I can totally see Nick being F1 and Josh sliding into Bachelor spot ... which he knew all along was his if he played his cards correctly and wrestle away from the Millionaire Farmer.

So my two favorite theories at this stage are

1) Andi and Josh at the end but they had some set up pre show and poor Nick was just the right guy at the wrong time who is not as smart as I am giving him credit for spilling all on airplane and possibly drowning his sorrows with a Kmart shopping spree ... ... or

2) Andi and Nick at end (as she's implying with her blogs) with Josh knowing all along that he would be top candidate for Bachelor ... EVERYONE wins!

  

But, let me watch Andi & Josh, in particular, next week as all opinions are subject to change!!

[MVMom39forever]

As much as I'd love this to be a repeat of "screw RS", I don't think we can expect it to happen every season or even too often.

True ... but I read an article about Reality Steve essentially making a living off of spoiling this show and one expert's surprise that ABC not doing more to stop it:

"Spoilers are nothing new, but it’s rare, if not unique, to make a career out of ruining a television show. Dr. Arnold T. Blumberg, a pop culture expert and University of Maryland professor, has never heard of a professional spoiler. He wondered why ABC hasn’t done more to protect its intellectual property, and surmised that, given Carbone’s success, other people would go into spoiling. ABC has in fact sued Carbone twice but has come away with nothing more than a $10,000 award. ABC has twice taken Reality Steve to court to stop the spoilers."

Here's link: How Reality Steve Does It

That's why my whole thought of upping the ante with the Nick air plane video could be true. And, the Bachelorette always has lower ratings than the Bachelor so ABC might think that they need to protect the ending to keep viewers watching. Or my other conspiracy theory is that Fleiss and RS are totally in cahoots and Fleiss doles out spoilers to him based on how the season unfolds/viewers respond.

[Kashathediva]

So somebody spent a whole lot of time & effort to convince every Bachelor sleuther that the spoiler would be Brooks.

It could be a paying job! Who knows? but it was a a conscious, planned thing. No doubt about it! (as Brad says) 
I suspect it will happen again--in a different way perhaps, but I look for it. 

As much as I'd love this to be a repeat of "screw RS", I don't think we can expect it to happen every season or even too often.

I think it could happen in many different variations and many different ways. It does not have to be the big "Kaboom" each time. And let's be clear...this was not just a screw RS---this was a screw US too--the sleuthers. RS "appears" to take his much more in stride--I take it as a warning.

[notarose]

*snipped

I could buy into this one! I swear watching unspoiled for the first four episodes is the way to go as you have no favorites and no over-thinking scenes. It's all just gut reaction.

With that said, my initial gut reaction for Josh was 1) Next Bachelor and 2) Scripted. I could not believe that a guy THAT good looking and clearly with a BIG personality who just oozes confidence and is a grown-a$$ MAN ... would be so nervous around Andi. She's pretty but surely Josh has been around other pretty girls as a former pro athlete. He just did not ring true to me on first ep. Then when he went in for the long passionate kiss in ep 2, I was like ... WTH, I thought you were nervous around her?? Evidently not! Then I think it was episode 3 and Josh/Andi alone time together ... I was like WTH? How did they get that comfortable and with that much chemistry, that quickly, when Josh has yet to have a one on one date? Fishy ...

So I am torn at this stage ... and getting back to Nick V ... I do think that Nick and Andi have had the most natural progression so far and he seems genuine and as we've heard from Andi ... she is most comfortable with him and they connect on physical/mental level. I can totally see Nick being F1 and Josh sliding into Bachelor spot ... which he knew all along was his if he played his cards correctly and wrestle away from the Millionaire Farmer.

So my two favorite theories at this stage are

1) Andi and Josh at the end but they had some set up pre show and poor Nick was just the right guy at the wrong time who is not as smart as I am giving him credit for spilling all on airplane and possibly drowning his sorrows with a Kmart shopping spree ... ... or

2) Andi and Nick at end (as she's implying with her blogs) with Josh knowing all along that he would be top candidate for Bachelor ... EVERYONE wins!

  

But, let me watch Andi & Josh, in particular, next week as all opinions are subject to change!!

Next Bachelor, if he were to come from this season (based on film presence, not who wins or doesn't ) I think, at this point, the only 2 really charismatic and bold characters are Josh and Marquel.  They are also both funny but their humor differs.  Still waiting to see what Chris will be about. Show us more Chris   

I really like a lot of the personalities of the guys this season. None of them are boring and they seem fun in their own ways.  I tend to gravitate toward soft-spoken, quietly confident people in my real life but I really don't think that type would make a good lead.  It would end up being a big "girl drama-fest" edit and I don't like those seasons.

[sdmom]

stuckinsc
I actually don't think Andi and her F1 (most likely Josh) are doomed to fail.  They have the same chance as any real life couple and it's always great when a relationship works.

My point is more about trying to convince a guy and his family about something that serves no purpose.  I think when the lead is really falling in love, like Sean (I only watched a few bits of Des' season) then the other people on the show just play along because they get to hang out, travel, etc. In those cases it may appear to the audience that their fav or the F2 is truly being disserviced when in actuality it's just a numbers game and no real harm done.  It's intended to look believable because it needs to a part of the story.  Nick's vid, if genuine, means his was not a typical  F2 or F3 scenerio.  If he would have been let go at F4 I say that would have been a compassionate move on her part.

I am not disagreeing or arguing with you, but I always wonder why: when the lead takes someone to f2, can't it be because the lead truly enjoys spending more time with f2 than f3/f4? why people feel when f3 is let go, it's because the lead doesn't want hurt or lead f3 on anymore?
I feel Andi was very into Nick at this point, so that's why I can't wait to see her date with Josh. Would it seal the deal for Andi? Would she put on her poker face with Nick in their second date? How did Chris jumped over Marcus to be f3 it spoiler is correct? I wish we had a brand new episode tonight!

[stuckinsc]

stuckinsc
I actually don't think Andi and her F1 (most likely Josh) are doomed to fail.  They have the same chance as any real life couple and it's always great when a relationship works.

My point is more about trying to convince a guy and his family about something that serves no purpose.  I think when the lead is really falling in love, like Sean (I only watched a few bits of Des' season) then the other people on the show just play along because they get to hang out, travel, etc. In those cases it may appear to the audience that their fav or the F2 is truly being disserviced when in actuality it's just a numbers game and no real harm done.  It's intended to look believable because it needs to a part of the story.  Nick's vid, if genuine, means his was not a typical  F2 or F3 scenerio.  If he would have been let go at F4 I say that would have been a compassionate move on her part.

I am not disagreeing or arguing with you, but I always wonder why: when the lead takes someone to f2, can't it be because the lead truly enjoys spending more time with f2 than f3/f4? why people feel when f3 is let go, it's because the lead doesn't want hurt or lead f3 on anymore?
I feel Andi was very into Nick at this point, so that's why I can't wait to see her date with Josh. Would it seal the deal for Andi? Would she put on her poker face with Nick in their second date? How did Chris jumped over Marcus to be f3 it spoiler is correct? I wish we had a brand new episode tonight!

I think most people want to believe that if you know who you want to pick as F1, by F3 rose ceremony that you let go the person who would be hurt most by sticking around longer. That is part of why I felt Constantine would be Ashley's F2, I think she knew he wasn't into her and so he could be F2 and not care. I thought Ben was genuinely hurt and I don't think Ashley intended this. I generally believe this of the leads who are less good at the acting part of being the lead. Ashley wasn't so good in my opinion, Ben was also not so good and I feel he let the girls he actually felt would be hurt more go at F4 and F3. I will never understand Emily. I thought Sean let AshLee go to hurt her less, could you have seen AshLee if Sean had rejected her at FRC? Shivers. Des is another train wreck, so really no way to know. JPG is a hard one, I don't know if he would have kept Andi to F2 or not to make it easier on Clare. I actually think he "inappropriate talking" with Andi was a way of seeing if she would be okay and cool enough to go to F2 and not be hurt. I think he hated hurting the girls and was actually relieved if they left first.

[Guest]

So in other words, Andi did a really good job of leading Nick on!    Dare we call her a good actress??

Maybe it was like Nick said, she did change her mind at the last minute. Maybe she changed it because:

- She realized she loved Josh (or Marcus or Chris or even Cody, who knowws )
- She was scared sh!tless and picked "what she is used to option"
- She was scared that he wasn't "all in"

If this happened then she wasn't really leading him on

Or maybe the script was always for her to pick Josh, after JPG season they needed a happily ever after, this was the producer's shot.

Or maybe it was gameover from the start with one of the other guys (Josh, Marcus or Chris) and Nick was just a plot point.

There are a lot of maybes and what ifs, I am going to wait and see what happens on air and post show to reserve judgement at this time. All IMO of course  

I know my theory is controversial, but I go back to my first gut feeling. Andi and Josh had already met before the filming. He went into the show as the targeted one for Andi. Their behavior together from the beginning without even a 1 on 1 just accentuates this belief for me. Plus there was a poster (I think Imelda Marcos) that mentioned her fiancée knew of the Murrays and claimed  he already knew the storyboard, that was at the beginning of filming. There is also the rumors Chloep mentioned about them being together, true or not? Well, so far all the info about Nick has panned out, so is possible the rumors about Josh and Andi could be true.

In the above scenario, Andi still had a show to do and had to choose someone as her F2 and convinced him to propose. That someone had to fit the description of not her usual type. I do think she was very attracted to Nick and they had a lot in common intellectually, so he became the sacrificial lamb.

Now, if Nick is F1 ( I wish), then I have been completely fool, and I applaud all the cast and crew involved in such an extraordinary foiler.

I could buy into this one! I swear watching unspoiled for the first four episodes is the way to go as you have no favorites and no over-thinking scenes. It's all just gut reaction.

With that said, my initial gut reaction for Josh was 1) Next Bachelor and 2) Scripted. I could not believe that a guy THAT good looking and clearly with a BIG personality who just oozes confidence and is a grown-a$$ MAN ... would be so nervous around Andi. She's pretty but surely Josh has been around other pretty girls as a former pro athlete. He just did not ring true to me on first ep. Then when he went in for the long passionate kiss in ep 2, I was like ... WTH, I thought you were nervous around her?? Evidently not! Then I think it was episode 3 and Josh/Andi alone time together ... I was like WTH? How did they get that comfortable and with that much chemistry, that quickly, when Josh has yet to have a one on one date? Fishy ...

So I am torn at this stage ... and getting back to Nick V ... I do think that Nick and Andi have had the most natural progression so far and he seems genuine and as we've heard from Andi ... she is most comfortable with him and they connect on physical/mental level. I can totally see Nick being F1 and Josh sliding into Bachelor spot ... which he knew all along was his if he played his cards correctly and wrestle away from the Millionaire Farmer.

So my two favorite theories at this stage are

1) Andi and Josh at the end but they had some set up pre show and poor Nick was just the right guy at the wrong time who is not as smart as I am giving him credit for spilling all on airplane and possibly drowning his sorrows with a Kmart shopping spree ... ... or

2) Andi and Nick at end (as she's implying with her blogs) with Josh knowing all along that he would be top candidate for Bachelor ... EVERYONE wins!

  

But, let me watch Andi & Josh, in particular, next week as all opinions are subject to change!!

Wow Great posts!!  MVmom You out into words perfectly my take on Josh and trouble warming up to him.  I think Andi has a comparable level of chemistry with both guys, just in a different ways, with the Nick kind looking more like the relationship building kind, right now.  Although I can't get past the plane video to doubt Josh as F1, the disappearing act of Chris would tie in with Josh as Bachelor. Without spoilers, I'd be on board with your second theory.

And sobold I agree too.   If Andi at this point was only about Josh already and is acting with Nick, why can't she act that well with others guys she's just stringing along for as long as needed.  It see her really liking how things are going with Nick.  There may be a time that changes but as you said, maybe she really will develop great things with each guy and have a hard choice to make at the end, and either her gut instinct of whose right or fear of jumping in lead her to Josh. Too early to predict what gets her to her final ending. I think knowing spoilers sometimes makes us think it's a certain guy from early on, while they may be basically tied with some others for a while. I see great chemistry with Josh, but not at the expense of others right now.

[Kashathediva]

I am of the other frame of mind: I generally feel the F2 is the second choice in order to get the more dramatic response and just because that is the second choice.

[stuckinsc]

I am of the other frame of mind: I generally feel the F2 is the second choice in order to get the more dramatic response and just because that is the second choice.

That definitely fits with Ben, Clare, Jason, Molly, and Tenley. I thought Kiptyn, Lindzi and Lindsay were to take the one who would be less hurt.

[MVMom39forever]

I sometimes think there is just no rhyme or reason on F2 vs. F3. I remember thinking during Deanna's season that Jason HAD TO BE F1 because Deanna just would never take him to F2 ... time away from son ... if he wasn't F1. Well, we all know how that turned out! Jason has shared on his podcast that he was supposed to go at F4 but with Graham's early out, he got bumped to F2 and a smooth transition into Bachelor land (over her F3 Jeremy). Jason says he was told he was a "sure thing" and pushed hard to propose ... all so TPTB could further build fan sympathy.

So ... sometimes the F2 is the F2 just so he can step into Bachelor spot ... or because there was frankly no guy left, which could be said for Ashley's season with Ben:
1) Make-out passionately on LCD (Ashley earned her keep and then some here!)
2) Propose on bended knee (with cameras catching every angle to replay back on his Bachelor promo reel)
3) Get humiliated/angry (also captured for promo reel)
4) Slide into Bachelor/promote winery ... Hurray!

Also, with Ashley, no way could she take stiff Ames, whom she had nadda chemistry, to an over night! And Con, who looked liked he'd rather be anywhere BUT with her, to F2 when he was dying to leave before she even proffered the overnight date card. Hah!

So I know we all love to look for patterns but I just think that sometimes that's not the case.

The most convincing F2 ... hands down ... was Brad 1.0 when he had two final 2's so that was truly just cheating on his part!

[atem]

^^^^ I agree. There is no reason, other than there needs to be someone dumped.

[notarose]

while we wait for new screencaps, I think I've just had a eureka moment.
Remember the scene with Nick and Andi atop the courthouse clock tower?  (Sorry, I can't find the SCs for your reference) Well, I couldn't figure out why the camera lingered on Andi facing the skyline with her arm extended/hand on the rail while Nick was behind her and his arm/hand was in the same position beside hers.  The camera lingered a few seconds on only their arms on the railing. Then it panned to him perhaps whispering to her or kissing her neck.

Ah, she's afraid of heights (we find out in the next epi) so I think Nick was easing her fear on the tower.  That would explain her later rapidly half turning to kiss him.

Ok, ok, it might not be all that important but whenever there are strange shots I just need to make sense of them.

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