*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 After The Final Rose (ATFR) Discussion

nd4reality wrote:I have no information on the ring rule or the neil lane tie up.

Since Brad 1.0 (which BTW I still think was the brave and correct thing to do) they have ensured a proposal at all their finales.
So this was a twist in their grand plan.

thanks.... Mr.Rosenboum has spilled it as well :  

Wait a second!!!! We don't HAVE TO propose?!?!?!? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

— J.P. Rosenbaum (@JP_Rosenbaum) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The ring rule was put in place several years ago

nd4reality wrote:

murasaki1393 wrote:Now i have a million dollar Q...  
Why on earth CH keep chirping this season is the Bachelor's FIRST when actually they have had Travis season years ago??

From People :

Travis Stork  & Charlotte Brown
The dashing ER doctor got hearts fluttering when he appeared as the Bachelor in 2006, but when it came to the final rose ceremony, he didn't get down on one knee and propose to Bachelorette Sarah Stone. They broke up shortly after the show's finale aired, with Stork blaming the split on the long months they'd had to keep their relationship a secret. "You're forced to pretend you don't know someone, for essentially the last four months," he told The Tennessean. The Doctors co-host married girlfriend of three years, pediatrician Dr. Charlotte Brown in 2012.

Hopefully the expert veterans can give me an insight on this   . TIA

Muras - there have been other seasons with twists in the past at the end. CH and the machine have to keep sounding the "unique" and "never before" board to drum up interest in the show.


I was really into Travis' season  :Biggrin: . He was so done by the end of his season. You can see it in his face. He had an emotional troublesome F2 (lots of red flags along the way) also and his F1 had an edit that showed her bitchy side. You could see that he could not wait to end his season particularly his F2. Their LCD was amusing to watch.
He picked a girl that lives in the same city as him. At the FRC he gave her a ring-on-a-string and asked her to continue to date instead of a proposal.
She accepted but they did not have an ATFR (he refused) and put out a media statement the day after the FRC to say that they were no longer dating. He said that it was very hard to be apart while so geographically close but that was just a ruse.
Now that season had TB fans feel let down !!!! Though IMO was also realistic.

BTW - Travis and his F1 maintained a bit of a friendship after the show, he participated  in an auction that she was involved in but romantically they were done.

Travis and Sarah Stone were both living in Nashville at the time (I think Sarah still does and is also married with a child) which is where I live. I know many people who know them. There was never a romance between them but there was a genuine friendship. During the end of filming he basically asked Sarah to "help a friend out" by carrying out the charade of being the chosen one. After filming while the show was being aired, there was no contact (safe house visits) although they did run into each other at the gym and out running occasionally. As you indicated, over time they continued the friendship and Sarah did participate in the auction you mentioned that was held at Vanderbilt.

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Lets get to a bunch of questions surrounding last’s finale and ATFR, starting with the three you are most interested in:

1) What did Juan Pablo say to Clare in the helicopter?

I’m actually surprised at how many people are asking this. Did you not watch the show? It was basically re-iterated twice. Once in general, and then later the exact wording. When they got in the suite and Clare confronted him, she mentioned how he said he loved being physical with her. Then after he dumped her, her exact quote was, “Don’t say you love f***ing me.” Even WetPaint ran that story before the show aired last night, getting confirmation from a “source.” Well, it’s obvious that source is one of the girls from the show that Clare told it to, but that’s neither here nor there. The point is all you had to do was listen to what Clare said and she told everyone after she got dumped the exact specifics. Not sure why when they brought it up on the ATFR that Clare didn’t say it again, but hey, it’s not like she’s gonna go dropping the f-bomb on live television so I can see why she avoided it.

2) What surprise was Chris Harrison promoting all episode that never happened?

It’s no secret after watching last night that Juan Pablo was over the show, and the show was pretty much over him. From his tweets, from Chris Harrison constantly bad mouthing him to the media this season, to the numerous reports the producers hated him, it was obvious this relationship went sour. If you want to commend Juan Pablo for anything, it’s how he basically turned the tables on production last night. The surprise Chris was referring to was they were expecting a proposal last night because that’s what Juan Pablo told them he was going to do. E! Online ran a story today essentially saying the same thing. But he never had any intention of proposing. And he never will. He just decided not to tell them he wasn’t going to so they couldn’t plan ahead. Essentially just f***ing with them. Never told them if he was gonna accept that monetary offer or not either. Just kinda left them hanging and thinking a proposal was coming, and then made Chris Harrison look stupid when he asked, “Don’t you have a surprise for us?” Huh? What surprise? I know no surprise. Esssss ok. So yeah, producers thought he was proposing last night because he told them he would, even though he never had any intention to. So they hyped it just in case, and it backfired.

3) What happened two weeks ago that gave Juan Pablo and Nikki a “change of plans” in their relationship?

That was the DWTS issue. Juan Pablo was going to be a cast member this season, but the higher ups pulled the plug on him probably because of the media storm he caused with his gay comments and realizing that people didn’t really like him as much as they did back in September. So as I told you a couple weeks ago, he was no longer going to be on the cast. When Chris asked them “What are your plans now,” the reason he said “Our plans changed a couple weeks ago” was because that’s when he found out he wasn’t going to be on DWTS. If he was on it, he’d be put up in housing in LA, and I’m sure Nikki was gonna move out there for the time being with him, kinda like Catherine did with Sean. Now? I have no idea what those two plan on doing. He certainly isn’t moving to Kansas City, and I don’t see her moving down to Miami by herself to live with him. Your guess is as good as mine. I mean c’mon. Does anybody believe these two will last after watching that debacle last night?

4) Why wasn’t Neil Lane in St. Lucia?

Well, he was. And he met Juan Pablo. They just decided not to show it on the episode. They saved it for thedeleted scenes. If Juan Pablo would’ve proposed in St. Lucia, the scene of him picking out rings with Neil would’ve been shown. He didn’t, so it wasn’t. Pretty simple.

5) So did Juan Pablo ever have any intention of proposing to anyone this season?

No. Absolutely not. I’ve been telling you that for months. One of the things that I can’t prove but, ummmmm, if you watched any episode this season, then watched his performance last night, I don’t think it’s hard to tell that he was not invested into this process at all, is glad it’s over, and will probably never have anything to do with this franchise ever again. ABC’s fault for casting him in the first place, and Juan Pablo’s fault for acting like a horse’s ass for most of the season.

6) Do you think Chris Harrison was too hard on Juan Pablo and Nikki last night?

Ehhh, yes and no. Yes in the fact that Chris basically got embarrassed by Juan Pablo for the whole surprise thing and they still had a good 20 minutes of airtime to fill, so he had to keep harping on it. No in that, it’s his job. I don’t think Chris asking Juan Pablo “Why can’t you just say you love her” was too much. I think he could’ve directed more questions at Nikki and asked her what she thought about things, was she expecting a proposal, when she didn’t get it was she mad, what’s it been like over the last 4 months, etc. Chris didn’t ask anything that the live audience and everyone sitting at home didn’t want to know, which was, “Why can’t you act like you’re happy with everything?”

7) Do you think Juan Pablo loves Nikki?

Absolutely not. There’s a reason Juan Pablo never said on TV last night that he loved her. Had nothing to do with cultural differences, or being private, or whatever BS answer he was feeding everyone. He didn’t say he loves her because he doesn’t. It can’t get more simple than that. For four months I’ve told you this guy was in it for the paycheck, had zero interest in finding a wife on this show, was never going to propose on TV, and will never propose to any of these girls in real life. It’s just the way it is. Nikki will realize that sooner rather than later and they’ll be done. What an absolutely bizarre f***ing relationship. Yikes. Have some self respect Nikki. To sit there and take that on live TV? I mean, wow. Just wow.

8) Do you think Nikki is in love with Juan Pablo?

I think she’s trying to convince herself she is. Small town girl, getting the taste of fame, I’m sure that Nikki is much more into the fact she “won” the show than she is of actually being with Juan Pablo. No self respecting woman can sit up there like she did last night and not stand up for herself or speak out on their relationship. She says she doesn’t know if he loves her, but then in the same breath says, “Well, he doesn’t say it, but he shows it.” She’s completely been brainwashed and everyone watching last night, apparently except for her, can see this relationship is going nowhere.

9) How did you think Andi came off last night?

Lets just say I’ll take Des roller blading around Santa Monica Pier over Andi walking awkwardly through a park with a giant grin on her face any day of the week and twice on Sundays. One of the more cornier intro packages we’ve ever seen, and that’s saying something.

10) Ummmm, will you be spoiling Andi’s season?

As long as this show is on the air, I will continue to spoil it. Every. Season.

Ultimately I think you saw Juan Pablo’s true colors come out in St. Lucia and then on the ATFR. You say all those nice things to Clare and about Clare, then you let her go, and just because she’s honest with you about how she feels you immediately do a 180 and say “Glad I didn’t pick her?” Does he realize what a complete jackass that makes him look like? Not to mention rude, insensitive, egotistical, and any other horrible adjective you can think of. Then again, none of what happened last night should really surprise anyone. He’s a phony who was just in it for the fame and money aspect of it, had no idea what he was getting into, and when he started realizing that not everyone is going to like you, had no clue how to react. Usually it meant going on the defensive and insulting more people. But hey, that’s Juan Pablo. He doesn’t know any better. He doesn’t think he’s done one thing wrong all season. Not one. And that’s pretty much him in a nutshell. Clueless.

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RealitySteve's breakdown will answer some questions
HumblePie
03/11/14 01:41 PM

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Not sure this is the right place but here is the latest from RS.

It is my recollection that Bob Guiney did not propose, but he did give his F1 the ring; he put it on her right hand. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks soccermom333" for the RS blog post. I stopped reading him a few years ago because I feel he went from enthusiastic sleuther to the darkside of hatemonger.

People in this forum, including me, watch the show and share our interpretations of the show and other info. The only difference with RS is that he makes money off it through advertizers or however that works and preseason he has inside sources. I'd respect him more if stayed with the factual side of things as his tone has become bitter.

One thing he failed to mention in his in-depth sharing:

A 32 year old woman has consensual sex (implied by Clare's comment) with a 32 year old man in private, sometime after which he tells her he liked it in private in a manner she finds crude (note Emily did not when Jef said something similar in the library in Prague - she laughed. Different strokes for different folks) and this 32 year old, all miked up, proceeds to divulge these once private details to millions of people via a TV show. In summary, it seems Clare broadcasted having had sex on a reality tv show when, because it happened when cameras weren't around, we would have never known.
I think JP should have known Clare well enough to know the way he spoke to her was rude/disrespectful to her -as it is to most but not all women dependent on circumstance; I have no clue why any woman would reveal she privately had sex on a reality tv show. She could have said he was objectifying her, not respecting her opinions or intelligence, making her feel cheap by not asking her questions about her interests yet thinking a kiss would solve everything, etc. I just don't get why she made this public.

Have you already talked about?

Columbia, MD wrote:It is my recollection that Bob Guiney did not propose, but he did give his F1 the ring; he put it on her right hand.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, there were other too, who gave a ring as a sign/ more of a "promise ring".

LibbyBell wrote:Wow—I enjoyed reading everyone’s thoughts last night but I needed to take a little bit to get my thoughts together and see how to best reflect on the finale; here goes (sorry for the long post!):

What did Juan Pablo say to Clare:

This is the scenario that makes most sense to me— Clare asked the question that she reiterates later on at their LCD “Do you know me enough to propose to me in 2 days?” This is a no win for both of them—especially since Clare was F2; in her ITM Clare says that Juan Pablo says something sexual. Given Juan Pablo’s “honesty”, he is compelled to tell her No, I don’t think I know you well enough but then he needs to add AT THE VERY LEAST: I know I like kissing you or AT WORST: You’ll make a great f@#*buddy. For Clare, I suspect that this has been an issue in some of her past relationships and is why it doesn’t set well with her so what she hears is: what we have is only physical. Was Juan Pablo that crass and blatant, I doubt it, but it doesn’t matter—it is how Clare viewed it. What she needed to do is think about the situation (her knowledge of the show) and LISTEN to her inner voice. She was getting the information that she needed from Juan Pablo but she ignored it. I thought CH should have stuck up for Juan Pablo and reminded Clare he's not allowed to tell you you're the one. I get it: when it is someone else misreading the clues, they are dumb but when it is YOU, he led her on.

 

Juan and his process:

All season, we see that Juan Pablo is very superficial with the girls that he is not interested in. Does that make the girls think that: he is all about himself and didn’t take the time to get to know me? Yes, but in all fairness to him, this was Juan Pablo’s way to differentiate those that he wanted to pursue a relationship with. Sharlene, Clare and Nikki all stated that they had conversations with Juan Pablo that were in-depth and not superficial. With the final 2 ladies, there was a substantial difference in their relationship with Juan Pablo; in one, it was purely physical but she chose to ignore those signs. Even SEAN alluded to: “not having something to say so you just kiss” scenario. With TPTB, Juan Pablo always held his cards close to the vest; even on this public show, Juan Pablo tried maintaining his privacy on how he is really feeling. Was this a cultural difference, a language barrier or just how Juan Pablo played the game? Yes—it isn’t important for us to know which one. What does matter is whether his F1 knows. I think (again, just my opinion) she does. I think that he has been upfront with Nikki and they are going to see where their relationship leads them.

 

 “The edit”:

I think that Juan Pablo’s reason to come on the show was to meet someone who he could build a relationship with and--- that’s what he did. However, Juan Pablo did not play with TPTB the way that past bachelors have and this TICKED them off! At the beginning of the season, TPTB started the edit off to show that there was a cultural difference and possibly a language barrier that was resulting in Juan Pablo being misunderstood by the women and even society (we saw this with the off the show comments re: gays). When TPTB determined that Juan Pablo was never going to show them his cards they decided to switch the edit to him being a jerk who won’t say ILY. I also wonder if TPTB were bound and determined to make a case that would help them in the “diversity lawsuit” (we tried it and boy what a wreck it turned out to be…we’ll stay with our original “type”)

 

Chris Harrison:

I’ve always liked CH but I was a little disappointed in him this season. As the “host” of TB, it is his responsibility to facilitate the lead through the process. He said the Juan Pablo never really “embraced” the process—was this because TRUST was never established? Early on (the gay comments) I think Juan Pablo learned that “they” were not there for him and that he was on his own. I know that it has become an excuse but, English is Juan Pablo’s 2^nd language and he should be given the benefit of the doubt.

 

Juan Pablo and Nikki:

Juan Pablo and Nikki are both very pragmatic and “honest”. Will this relationship work? I don’t know but I think that they will do it on their own terms and out of the spotlight of TB. Who knows, Juan Pablo and Nikki may turn out to be the most level headed couple to come out of the franchise; I wish them the very best!

Great post Libby!   

Thank you quietpal!