*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 Edit Discussions #2

The difference in the body language between JP and Clare vs JP and Nikki is that JP follows their lead. Clare is much more touchy feely than Nikki. She is like JP in that respect. Nikki stands back and takes things in and has to reason out her feelings. Nikki doesn't say anything she hasn't thought through.(when interacting  with JP) I think JP likes that about her, though. He knows what he gets from Nikki is genuine and real. She is very mature in many ways to be so young!

mprssdbyu wrote:The difference in the body language between JP and Clare vs JP and Nikki is that JP follows their lead. Clare is much more touchy feely than Nikki. She is like JP in that respect. Nikki stands back and takes things in and has to reason out her feelings. Nikki doesn't say anything she hasn't thought through.(when interacting  with JP) I think JP likes that about her, though. He knows what he gets from Nikki is genuine and real. She is very mature in many ways to be so young!

So true, he does follow their lead. I think that's why Clare is edited as mostly kissing and Nikki as mostly talking. JP talks about Clare's lips and the way Nikki thinks and finds both sexy.

mprssdbyu wrote:The difference in the body language between JP and Clare vs JP and Nikki is that JP follows their lead. Clare is much more touchy feely than Nikki. She is like JP in that respect. Nikki stands back and takes things in and has to reason out her feelings. Nikki doesn't say anything she hasn't thought through.(when interacting  with JP) I think JP likes that about her, though. He knows what he gets from Nikki is genuine and real. She is very mature in many ways to be so young!

BUT, does that mean that he doesn't like the touchy feely parts of Clare? Meaning, when you are one way, a lot of times you gravitate to the way that resembles what you like/are the most. Andi is the one that first said how much JP gravitates towards Clare.

Aunties_Love wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:The difference in the body language between JP and Clare vs JP and Nikki is that JP follows their lead. Clare is much more touchy feely than Nikki. She is like JP in that respect. Nikki stands back and takes things in and has to reason out her feelings. Nikki doesn't say anything she hasn't thought through.(when interacting  with JP) I think JP likes that about her, though. He knows what he gets from Nikki is genuine and real. She is very mature in many ways to be so young!

BUT, does that mean that he doesn't like the touchy feely parts of Clare?  Meaning, when you are one way, a lot of times you gravitate to the way that resembles what you like/are the most.  Andi is the one that first said how much JP gravitates towards Clare.

Oh, I think he enjoys Clare's company very much. He doesn't have to worry about too much conversation with Clare! LOL BUT! If you will notice while he may be kissy kissy with Clare, he doesn't act like he enjoys alone time with her more than Sharlene or Nikki. Watch closely. There is so much more for Juan to consider esp in regards to Camilla....maturity and physical attraction...he has set a high standard...very high. It's not easy for any of them to meet his expectations. I think that's why you don't hear alot of "she could be the one" from him. He's very mature...like Nikki. He knows what he wants. Back to Nikki... he's very affectionate with her, too ... but with her it seems deeper and he seems to be thinking alot more about his relationship with Nikki. I just see depth with her that I don't see with Clare.

mprssdbyu wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:The difference in the body language between JP and Clare vs JP and Nikki is that JP follows their lead. Clare is much more touchy feely than Nikki. She is like JP in that respect. Nikki stands back and takes things in and has to reason out her feelings. Nikki doesn't say anything she hasn't thought through.(when interacting  with JP) I think JP likes that about her, though. He knows what he gets from Nikki is genuine and real. She is very mature in many ways to be so young!

BUT, does that mean that he doesn't like the touchy feely parts of Clare?  Meaning, when you are one way, a lot of times you gravitate to the way that resembles what you like/are the most.  Andi is the one that first said how much JP gravitates towards Clare.

Oh, I think he enjoys Clare's company very much. He doesn't have to worry about too much conversation with Clare! LOL BUT! If you will notice while he may be kissy kissy with Clare, he doesn't act like he enjoys alone time with her more than Sharlene or Nikki. Watch closely. There is so much more for Juan to consider esp in regards to Camilla....maturity and physical attraction...he has set a high standard...very high. It's not easy for any of them to meet his expectations. I think that's why you don't hear alot of "she could be the one" from him. He's very mature...like Nikki. He knows what he wants. Back to Nikki... he's very affectionate with her, too ... but with her it seems deeper and he seems to be thinking alot more about his relationship with Nikki. I just see depth with her  that I don't see with Clare.

Yea, I see more depth with Clare than Nikki. I see Nikki pulling away and not the closeness there, but that's what makes differing opinions great. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Aunties_Love wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:The difference in the body language between JP and Clare vs JP and Nikki is that JP follows their lead. Clare is much more touchy feely than Nikki. She is like JP in that respect. Nikki stands back and takes things in and has to reason out her feelings. Nikki doesn't say anything she hasn't thought through.(when interacting  with JP) I think JP likes that about her, though. He knows what he gets from Nikki is genuine and real. She is very mature in many ways to be so young!

BUT, does that mean that he doesn't like the touchy feely parts of Clare?  Meaning, when you are one way, a lot of times you gravitate to the way that resembles what you like/are the most.  Andi is the one that first said how much JP gravitates towards Clare.

Oh, I think he enjoys Clare's company very much. He doesn't have to worry about too much conversation with Clare! LOL BUT! If you will notice while he may be kissy kissy with Clare, he doesn't act like he enjoys alone time with her more than Sharlene or Nikki. Watch closely. There is so much more for Juan to consider esp in regards to Camilla....maturity and physical attraction...he has set a high standard...very high. It's not easy for any of them to meet his expectations. I think that's why you don't hear alot of "she could be the one" from him. He's very mature...like Nikki. He knows what he wants. Back to Nikki... he's very affectionate with her, too ... but with her it seems deeper and he seems to be thinking alot more about his relationship with Nikki. I just see depth with her  that I don't see with Clare.

Yea, I see more depth with Clare than Nikki.  I see Nikki pulling away and not the closeness there, but that's what makes differing opinions great.  I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Clare and Nikki are very different. I think it comes down to what JP wants in his forever mate or his potential forever mate. I don't see Nikki pulling away... I just see Nikki being Nikki. One of the cutest scenes the whole season for me was when she had her PI after the Ogo date. Excitedly she threw up to fingers and said " He kissed me twice!" It was genuine and a gut reaction.  I do think editing is hiding some of the chemistry between Nikki and JP moreso than Clare. JMHO

Aunties_Love wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:The difference in the body language between JP and Clare vs JP and Nikki is that JP follows their lead. Clare is much more touchy feely than Nikki. She is like JP in that respect. Nikki stands back and takes things in and has to reason out her feelings. Nikki doesn't say anything she hasn't thought through.(when interacting  with JP) I think JP likes that about her, though. He knows what he gets from Nikki is genuine and real. She is very mature in many ways to be so young!

BUT, does that mean that he doesn't like the touchy feely parts of Clare?  Meaning, when you are one way, a lot of times you gravitate to the way that resembles what you like/are the most.  Andi is the one that first said how much JP gravitates towards Clare.

Oh, I think he enjoys Clare's company very much. He doesn't have to worry about too much conversation with Clare! LOL BUT! If you will notice while he may be kissy kissy with Clare, he doesn't act like he enjoys alone time with her more than Sharlene or Nikki. Watch closely. There is so much more for Juan to consider esp in regards to Camilla....maturity and physical attraction...he has set a high standard...very high. It's not easy for any of them to meet his expectations. I think that's why you don't hear alot of "she could be the one" from him. He's very mature...like Nikki. He knows what he wants. Back to Nikki... he's very affectionate with her, too ... but with her it seems deeper and he seems to be thinking alot more about his relationship with Nikki. I just see depth with her  that I don't see with Clare.

Yea, I see more depth with Clare than Nikki.  I see Nikki pulling away and not the closeness there, but that's what makes differing opinions great.  I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

You are right, Mp. the bolded has came out directly from his mouth.But the Q is, for/with who?? (from 0:57 mark   )

mprssdbyu wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:The difference in the body language between JP and Clare vs JP and Nikki is that JP follows their lead. Clare is much more touchy feely than Nikki. She is like JP in that respect. Nikki stands back and takes things in and has to reason out her feelings. Nikki doesn't say anything she hasn't thought through.(when interacting  with JP) I think JP likes that about her, though. He knows what he gets from Nikki is genuine and real. She is very mature in many ways to be so young!

BUT, does that mean that he doesn't like the touchy feely parts of Clare?  Meaning, when you are one way, a lot of times you gravitate to the way that resembles what you like/are the most.  Andi is the one that first said how much JP gravitates towards Clare.

Oh, I think he enjoys Clare's company very much. He doesn't have to worry about too much conversation with Clare! LOL BUT! If you will notice while he may be kissy kissy with Clare, he doesn't act like he enjoys alone time with her more than Sharlene or Nikki. Watch closely. There is so much more for Juan to consider esp in regards to Camilla....maturity and physical attraction...he has set a high standard...very high. It's not easy for any of them to meet his expectations. I think that's why you don't hear alot of "she could be the one" from him. He's very mature...like Nikki. He knows what he wants. Back to Nikki... he's very affectionate with her, too ... but with her it seems deeper and he seems to be thinking alot more about his relationship with Nikki. I just see depth with her  that I don't see with Clare.

Yea, I see more depth with Clare than Nikki.  I see Nikki pulling away and not the closeness there, but that's what makes differing opinions great.  I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Clare and Nikki are very different. I think it comes down to what JP wants in his forever mate or his potential forever mate. I don't see Nikki pulling away... I just see Nikki being Nikki. One of the cutest scenes the whole season for me was when she had her PI after the Ogo date. Excitedly she threw up to fingers and said " He kissed me twice!" It was genuine and a gut reaction.  I do think editing is hiding some of the chemistry between Nikki and JP moreso than Clare. JMHO

Hmm, guess I am seeing more of the whole picture with Clare versus Nikki. I just don't think Nikki is as invested in JP and visa-verse compared to Clare.

Mura, when JP changed his tune after his first 1-1 with Nikki, the dynamic between he and Clare changed ...for me anyway. Clare and JP's first 1-1 was great but then along came Nikki's..I've been watching closely esp since that episode! LOL But hell, what I think won't make it so! I'm not sure it would have been Nikki as F1 had Sharlene hung around...I'm not sure I could have made up my mind...then.   Imagine that!

ETA: Sharlene was by far my favorite of all the women. I loved her! I would love to see her as the next Bachelorette but I'm not holding out a whole lot of hope!  :bigsigh: 

mprssdbyu wrote:Mura, when JP changed his tune after his first 1-1 with Nikki, the dynamic between he and Clare changed ...for me anyway. Clare and JP's first 1-1 was great but then along came Nikki's..I've been watching closely esp since that episode! LOL But hell, what I think won't make it so! I'm not sure it would have been Nikki as F1 had Sharlene hung around...I'm not sure I could have made up my mind...then.   Imagine that!

ETA: Sharlene was by far my favorite of all the women. I loved her! I would love to see her as the next Bachelorette but I'm not holding out a whole lot of hope!  :bigsigh: 

tehehe.....i am absolutely fine whomever Pablo Papi ended up with. I have no fav this season. The closest thing to fav for me is Renee, the sweetheart one, and now she is gonezo..LOL.....I would be thrilled to jump in Nikki train had i seen a bold Fleissian wuv story between her and JPab. But even after trying to be as fair as possible, i couldnt fit her into this role...LOL. I am sure she will be fine post-show. Instead i have this wishful thinking she will get together with Arie ala KypTen..LOL..  ...(.ya know im weird..  ).we shall se, Mp!!..

For ette gig, i def.ly excited to watch the Awesome Prosecutor!!.. :Smiley:

pbmax wrote:

JBF wrote:I genuinely thought Nikki could be The One at the start of the season (i.e. just go back to my first two recaps), then made a sudden turnaround when I re-watched Clare's 1 on 1. From a body language standpoint, he is completely different with her than anybody else. Yes I do understand that the editors can hide a connection with plenty of lop and chop too... and that is where I can sometimes... weakly... try to build a case for the other ladies. Every season we debate if F1 is a "default" choice or if it was "love at first sight" simply because the Bachelor/ette is often very good with the BS in their PI sessions and faking some of the body language. Yet I don't think Juan is capable of faking anything... and this leads me to believe the lightning bolt hit the moment she arrived "knocked up" out of the limo.

What about the edit that's telling you it's Clare?

What I noticed with Clare is he give pecking kisses or pressing lips kisses. He gives Nikki real kisses, passionate ones. He stares at her lips, cause he's dying to kiss her and he ain't leaving her without one. you're right  he's not good at faking cause I see that he is not into Clare.
The 2 most determing things that say it's Nikki are the fact he was sorry he went into the ocean with Clare (nothing behind that but another woman). 2. He hasn't whispered in any other woman ear but Nikki, why because he's saying something that he only want her to know. he's trying to let her know it's her. If he don't choose her something went wrong.

Good observations, however...

Ooooooooh I wish you hadn't asked me that question. I am trying to Be As Fair As Possible.

Juan and the Princess… in HIS words... YOU DECIDE IF HE HAS LESS INTEREST IN CLARE THAN  NIKKI.

Episode #1: “A man that loves his daughter that much, I think, he can love me that much”

Juan: Is there somebody else in the limo? Oh my gosh!
Clare arriving “knocked up”: Hey… what do you know about this? Ha ha!
Juan (instantly touches her on the belly): ooooh
Clare (hugging): I’m Clare
Juan (can’t stop looking below): Hi Clare. I’ve seen that before.
Clare: Yah? So… I know you have a daughter. (Yes) And I know you want more childen. (Yes) And I was thinking maybe…
Juan (ready to lunge at her): Having more children?
Clare (talking at the same time): Adding to it.
Juan: Maybe. That’s great.
Clare: Wanna feel? So not real. It’s lumpy for me, right?
Juan: You look gorgeous with that belly.
Clare: Thankyou. So I’ll go inside and play with some of the girls… and then we’ll talk later?
Juan (totally G-O-N-E): Sure. (Watching her leave) Nice pretty girl. She’s very cute. Hoooh!!

Behind the Scenes show

Chris Harrison: Who did you choose for the first date?
Juan: Clare! (clap!) She’s someone that I think… she’s very cute, um, she seems very fun, um, I want to see her on a serious…
Chris: You know she’s fun. See if there’s ‘depth’.
Juan: Yah. Exactly. I see her and I see myself a lot on this show.
Chris: What? The accent?
Juan: She’s back… no. I don’t have a bad accent.
Chris: No, I didn’t mean that.
Juan: I’m practicing… been practicing for a couple of months.
Chris: You are enunciating perfectly.
Juan to TV viewers: … and (so you can) understand me at home.

Camilla to Juan: I like choc-O-late because surprise surprise choc-O-late I like.
Juan to Camilla: You like surprise choc-O-late?

Chris Harrison voice-byte over Clare: I’ve just been to Juan’s house. He’s extremely excited…

Episode #2

I love doin’ surprises, so being El Bachelor lets me give a lot of surprises… so it is gonna be great to surprise Clare. She’s gonna freak out.

When I first saw Clare in the limo I remember her being very funny, clever, happy, easy going… so I planned this spectacular date tonight and I can’t wait to see her reaction… because (impish smile) it is gonna be a great night.

I’m lovin’ it because her reaction was great. Looking at her smiling is better than a million bucks.

I think Clare is very cute and she’s fun and she jokes around. I can see myself with Clare having a good life with Camilla.

Tonight Clare talked to me about her dad and things that I would like to know about her. I’m glad that she’s here and that she’s able to open up a little bit and I want her to feel like she is safe and she can open up more. / If you had a father who treated you like a princess, you want a man who treats you like a princess… though. Why would you not have that standard? We have high standards. Clare and I definitely have high standards on relationships, so… I want her to stay because I enjoy being with her. Just feels like it is right.

Love is very important to me. I want to have that person I can wake up every day with. So I am looking forward to see how this adventure will keep growing because I feel happy with Clare.

Episode #3

Clare looked really good in piyamas.

Episode #4

Clare’s great. She says “Please tell me we’re not gonna eat octopus.” I says “hooooh. So you don’t wanna eat octopus?” That’s gonna be the first thing I’m gonna give you. You just made the worst mistake of your life. Ha ha!

(Have to toss in Kelly’s very tasteless line here: “Clare’s the most dramatic person I’ve ever seen. Her piece was literally this big… and I KNOW you’ve swallowed BIGGER things than that.”)

To Chris Harrison later: She comes to me. I hope we don’t eat octopus! I was, like, I just couldn’t wait to find the first octopus place in the street to buy so she could eat it! She ate octopus! Then I gave her choc-O-late.

I know I said I wasn’t gonna kiss anybody but she iizzzzz sex-ieeee. She’s hhhhot. Her teeth, her lips... I’m helpless. Yeah. I don’t even know what to do. (Clare: “Do I have choc-O-late breath?” Juan: “It’s OK. Me too.”) I wasn’t gonna kiss her but I couldn’t help it. Y’know, it just feels right. It feels very right, now.

Cut from the main show: Juan telling Clare “this is the real deal”.

Juan voice-byte over Clare: (one of you) can be my wife.

Episode #5

So me and Clare… we got stuck in these trees and the girls were kinda far ahead so… why not? Just give her a little besitos. Why not? It was the right moment. Right time. Right place. Right girl. Perfect.

I took her to my suite. I just wanted to have a good time with her and make her feel special. Let her know that I feel comfortable with her. She tried many things and getting her out of her comfort zone and I’m liking that a lot about Clare.

Clare… today she opened up a little bit so… obviously I want her to feel comfortable. I feel if she’s comfortable, I’ll get to know more about that Clare that I want to know.

Oh my gosh! Clare. She’s on fire… en llamas… en llamas. Aye aye aye.

The waves were wild… and we got a little wild too, ‘cause obviously there’s this ‘thing’ that we have that I don’t think (hardly) anybody else (I have) in the house.

Last night I had a great night with Clare. She’s sexy. She’s got something that I like and I’ll be thinking a LOT about her… but today’s a new day. I can’t wait to see Nikki.

Maybe I made a mistake the other night, taking it too far with Clare? Was I fair going with Clare to the ocean? No, I wasn’t fair to the other ten girls in the house.

Episode #6

As a dad, the hardest part of this process is that I am always missing Camilla. Last week, I got in big trouble with Clare. I made her upset. This is a learning process for me. In this case, I’m LOST here. I’m still figuring out my boundaries… ‘cause it not just me. It’s gonna be me and my daughter. Now, today, it is Clare’s second 1 on 1 and I’m looking forward to talking to her.

Do I ‘know’ Clare? Yeah, I ‘know’ her, but do I need to ‘know’ her more? Yeah, I need to ‘know’ more about her. Tonight I just want to make sure we reset. That’s all I want.

Clare just has something going on that is so attractive to me that I don’t even know what to say.

Dah---ham! Whoooh! I get hot talking about Clare.

Clare is just something else. I love to see her change. I love that she didn’t bolt ‘cause I see a future here and I want to know more about her life. At the end of the day I’m gonna end up this adventure with somebody. She could be the one.

Episode #7

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When Clare says the following lines, the camera stays focused on...
1.) first Clare, then Juan with "the man that I do marry".
2.) Juan: "and the man that I am with forever knows how he feels about me..."
3.) Clare: "and knows what a responsibility it is to marry his daughter and be with his daughter"
4.) Clare: "That video is to be watched"
5.) Juan: "by the man of my dreams before I get married"
6.) Juan (voice-over scene): "He put it in the bank vault"
7.) Clare: "and nobody has ever seen it"
8.) Hands together: "and I've been waiting to watch this DVD"
9.) Clare (speaking): "I wish you met my dad, like..."
10.) Juan: "he's an amazing guy"

Episode #8... need to re-watch in order to get it all

Is all of this misinformation to tease us?

Comments by the others regarding Clare in episode #5 alone…

Kelly: Here's the thing about Clare. She doesn't have many friends in the house, so whenever he says "pair up", everyone has a friend and Clare doesn't. For the first time in everyone's life, having no friends is an advantage.
Andi: I was frustrated just coming here this morning to this date and seeing another 1 on 1 date in front of my eyes basically. Annoying... I'm pissed, frustrated... yeah.
Sharleen: Basically the eight of us and a 1 on 1 date.
Chelsie: I've had a really good date today, but... thanks to Clare... it has been with Alli. Juan Pablo has been, like, "around" my date, but me and Alli have had a really romantic morning.
Back to Kelly: Clare got a lot of 1 on 1 time today because she took opportunities to be with Juan Pablo. Clare knows what she wants and she is here to get it. (cue shot of Juan eating his meal) Can we hate her for that? (eye roll) I mean, we can... but...
Kat to Clare and Juan looking embarrassed: We could really see you from the bushes. We saw it from the scenic route.
Alli: Today's date... it was wonderful, even if, at times, it felt like I was interrupting Clare's 1 on 1 date.
Chelsie: He had a TON of time with Clare this morning. A TON of time, so for him to grab Clare first, it seemed like... well, we're still sitting here on Clare's 1 on 1 date with Juan Pablo.
Kat to the others: I don't think he had to take her first.
Andi: I definitely think Juan Pablo gravitates towards Clare. It doesn't feel good to say that, but it's the truth!
Chelsie: We all want him to notice us and it is rough to see him notice someone else the whole day. (later) You can't blame her, but coming from our perspective, we're just discouraged.
Kelly: Should we just take the rose down there and give it to her? (later) You think they've made it to second base yet?
Danielle: Was anyone on the last date with Clare? Was it the same? (Kelly says she made it about "her" differently. and Kat asks "Are we seeing a theme?")
Nikki: Clare comes back from her 1 on 1 time from Juan Pablo and they are not, like, hand and hand, arm and arm. I feel, like, there's a little bit of tension between them. I have no idea what's going on. (later) We got a very sombre vibe from him. Something bad is happening.
Danielle: I'm really confused what is going on with Clare. She has a rose so I am thinking it has nothing to do with Juan Pablo. (later) I don't know what's going on with Clare and Juan Pablo. You can tell she's been crying when coming back to the group, so... I don't know what's going on.
Cassandra asking Kat: Is she really crying or does she really have bad allergies?
Andi: Juan Pablo spent more time with Clare than anybody else and she already has a rose... and let's not forget that three people are going home. This is the biggest cut that we've had since the very first night and, for Clare's sake, what is there to possibly be dramatic about?

In short, Nikki is the only one "in the dark" about the Clare/Juan relationship. Renee commented on them in an earlier episode.

Regarding The "Mistake"...

There is a LOT more going on here than meets the eye. No, I do not expect you to understand what is happening here. I am not sure if I understand all of it myself. Just watch these clips and draw your own conclusions.

Korea: Juan and Nikki:

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Nikki: OK... Did you know that for guys when, like, a guy likes a girl, they look her in the eye but when a girl likes a guy, she looks away. It is a proven fact.
Juan: Who said that?
Nikki: Science.
Juan: Hmmmmm. OK.
Nikki: I know. You can't deny it then.
Juan: Good, I learned something today.
Nikki: Well here's the thing. I think when I, like, look you in the eyes...
Juan: And I look somewhere else so you look at me
Nikki: Yeah
Juan: OK tell me. (No) Tell me.
Nikki: I feel you can see all my secrets.
(We then cut to Sharleen killing our romantic mood here by asking Allison and Lauren "Do you think he notices... that?" i.e. her secrets.)

Vietnam...

albean99 wrote:You can't assume that Nikki didn't gush about JP just because we didn't hear it, JBF. For some reason they're trying to hide her tonight with that and her early, very short date.

I don't know if they're hiding it or it's just her temperament but she gives me no sign she feels anything for JP. From him I see it. From her I see her reciting all the right things to say, but I don't hear caring in her voice it sounds like reading lines to me (not her content, just the way she says things about her feelings totally lacks any feeling). I just can't get a feeling from her like she actually is falling in love with him. I just don't see that. I see her following through on the expectations of each stage of the show.