Brooks Discussion Group

jlccaz wrote:Bridget Jones ends up with Colin Firth, not Hugh Grant.  She was not acting in either case.  But her feelings for Colin Firth lasted not Hugh Grant.  That's a fictionalized version of a reality that is not uncommon.  Failing to see the "right person" because the wrong person (in terms of fit) is blocking the view, closing off part of your heart.  

Des should be allowed her "AHA" moment.  Brooks got their first, but eventually she was on the same page as him -- they were not a long term match.  For one, because he didn't love her back!  That's sort of a requriement.  

when i think of an "aha" moment i think of a lightbulb moment where someone comes to a realization on their own. des got dumped and then picked another guy rather than going home alone. that really is not an aha moment. she didn't experience any great personal growth on the show. in des' situation an aha moment would have been her choosing chris over brooks but of course that didn't happen. rather, she made a pragmatic decision not to go home alone but to choose someone else once brooks left. being pragmatic and gaining some sort of insight or enlightenment are two very different things. actually, the one who had the aha moment was brooks! what happens now with des and chris is all to be seen. maybe she and chris are a good match--maybe not.

gabriele wrote:

jlccaz wrote:Bridget Jones ends up with Colin Firth, not Hugh Grant.  She was not acting in either case.  But her feelings for Colin Firth lasted not Hugh Grant.  That's a fictionalized version of a reality that is not uncommon.  Failing to see the "right person" because the wrong person (in terms of fit) is blocking the view, closing off part of your heart.  

Des should be allowed her "AHA" moment.  Brooks got their first, but eventually she was on the same page as him -- they were not a long term match.  For one, because he didn't love her back!  That's sort of a requriement.  

when i think of an "aha" moment i think of a lightbulb moment where someone comes to a realization on their own. des got dumped and then picked another guy rather than going home alone. that really is not an aha moment. she didn't experience any great personal growth on the show. in des' situation an aha moment would have been her choosing chris over brooks but of course that didn't happen. rather, she made a pragmatic decision not to go home alone but to choose someone else once brooks left. being pragmatic and gaining some sort of insight or enlightenment are two very different things. actually, the one who had the aha moment was brooks! what happens now with des and chris is all to be seen. maybe she and chris are a good match--maybe not.

Couldn't disagree with you more.   Des said many times during the season that she needed someone who could communicate with her since she had not had that in her last relationships.  I think her "aha" moment was when she finally realized that Chris was that guy who could communicate with her for life and even though Brooks was gone at that point, he was not the guy that could communicate well with her.

Her moment may have happened after filming when she learned more about Brooks lack of feeling for her. The guy had no regrets and little conflict. He wasn't that into her romantically by the end. That's a turn off! After filming, production fills them in on more of what went down.

jlccaz wrote:Her moment may have happened after filming when she learned more about Brooks lack of feeling for her.  The guy had no regrets and little conflict.  He wasn't that into her romantically by the end.  That's a turn off! After filming,  production fills them in on more of what went down.  

Totally agree with your assessment about Brooks - I don't think he was that into her at the end of his part of the filming. I think he is a nice enough man that he felt bad about what he was doing to her. But I disagree with her moment. Your assessment would imply to me that she "settled" for Chris and I still don't think that is the way it went down. If that is not what you meant then I apologize :)

I laugh because I've gone through a similar circumstance.

I won't lie.. at the time of ultimate rejection (take into account this was 2 years of back and forth for me) I was sad. I thought that FINALLY after everything, me and this person would be together, forever, I wanted it so badly and didn't care the risk. I would have said anything to make this person stay with me forever, but alas, he did not want the same.

What's funny is that all of this happened over the course of one weekend... granted it was a holiday (July 4th) so extended none the less. My choice was to go see this man, show him how we belonged together and live happily ever after, OR stay home, with my family, and hang out (in a group) with the man that would become my husband.

Call it fate, divine intervention, or God's plan, but I think what happened to Des on that day when Brooks "ultimately rejected" her was part of her plan to find the right one.

I think it's possible to have your "ah ha" moment when the one you wanted makes it unmistakeably clear that he does not want to be with you.

Had Brooks given her the least bit of hope, I think her decision would have been difficult. He was not even a option at the time... and whichever handler made her realize that deserves a friggin medal!

grace8136 wrote:

Sprite wrote:

hillie wrote:I need to go back and watch the show again I guess...

Let's see, could someone tell me when am I supposed to believe that Des was "acting" when speaking directly to the camera? And when do I believe she was "telling the truth" when speaking to the camera?  Oh wait... I know!  This is like a creative writing course where we are given a few facts and then we make the story fit the facts...

So... when Des looks directly at the camera and says she is falling in love with Brooks, that she is in love with Brooks, that she is wanting Brooks to propose that is all "acting" now?  And when Chris Harrison says to her on numerous sessions before rose ceremonies... but what about the other guys, does that mean you aren't falling for them? and she answers, yes she is... that is the absolute truth that they were on a level playing field with Brooks?

I guess I'll get my notebook out and take notes... I can't believe what a wonderful actress Desiree was... Oscar caliber I believe.  I wonder what movie or show she will be in next?

Yes I always enjoy the selective, after the fact, reinterpretations of the show...depending on who you were rooting for.

For a woman who could barely register any emotion or enthusiasm through much of the show, she really becomes an Academy Award worthy actress with Brooks. That, of course is the Bachelor bubble which burst quickly after his own award worthy performance where he dumps her, but once that bubble bursts within days she comes to her senses and the realization that of course, it was Chris right along. That, of course, is not the Bachelor bubble!

I wish them the best. Hope they are happy and she did in fact, post show figure things out, but, I just can't buy these she/he acting theories, she was paid extra threories, it was scripted all along theories. The theories become more and more elaborate. These people are not good enough actors and the producers wouldn't trust them anyway.  Seems it is not enough that producers cast malleable people who they can manipulate into doing a lot of very stupid things...along with a good bit of alcohol...and this was just a situation of "He's just not that into you". She liked several of the guys to different degrees. The one she foolishly thought she was in love with dumps her after he figures his feelings out and she has to regroup. The next guy on the list is a nice guy who she also likes and being vulnerable, feeling stupid and embarrased, she gives him a chance. Post show anything is possible.

I'm confused with your posts. On the one hand you acknowledge that the show is often fake and Jef and Emily were acting. Yay! But if people question anything this season, we are reinterpreting the show depending on who we were rooting for? How do you know there aren't storyboards? It's a lot of money to risk, going into a season, flying by the seat of your pants. I just don't believe they take that risk to any great extent, especially after Brad 1. Just like Jason said, people are casts for different reasons and they may not even realize it. If they are cast for a reason, there is a plan. This season we have a "fairytale." All fairytales have a problem to overcome. How did they know when to insert the Prince if they didn't know who the prince was fairly early on? They knew before Des that Chris was the "Prince"? Why is Bryden forced to leave during their date, then the palace, theme music, etc. I don't know the answer, but feel like it's a valid question. Are you assuming they just made a lucky guess on Chris?

I don't have a problem with people asking questions about what goes on with the show. I'm constantly asking questions...including why I continue to watch? The reason I say it is because during the show most people were seeing the love story that was being set out with Brooks. A lot of that had to do with knowing spoilers. All of a sudden, we have the shocking ending where Brooks is no longer the prince charming and the spoilers are wrong. Many people liked Chris and a few did insist that he was the "winner" but, most did not. Now, knowing the ending, things have turned and all of a sudden it was Chris all along. I don't buy either version. They both have some truth and some creative editing. It happens every season. People usually favour the people who are leaked as the final four and particularly as the F1. There are exceptions of course...see Vienna, Courtney...but, generally people favour the winner...even more so post show. We want someone to root for and who doesn't love a happy couple? What people saw during the show that was evidence for her love of Brooks is now being reinterpreted as acting because she was paid extra since it doesn't jive with the ending. If she had ended up with Brooks, it would still remain evidence of her love.

I've said this at the end of other seasons, but, ther real explanations of why things happen/people do things are usually pretty simple...we just complicate them when, for whatever reason, they don't make sense. Think....He's just not that into you. I don't know if I am explaining it as well as it makes sense in my head but, it is how I see it. I didn't see a love story with Des and Chris. Mind you, I didn't see a love story between Des and Brooks either. However it went down for her, I doubt we will ever know, but, the important part will be how the relationship goes post show.

My thoughts on Jeff and Emily kind of go along with my thoughts on the storyboard. I don't think they were asked to act by the show, for the sake of the show, but, they did so for their own different motives. Both were attempting to sell themselves as something they weren't. Both liked attention and both were seeking either fame or improved business interests or both through the show. There probably was some attraction...I really saw it from Emily when she saw the family ranch! Producers know this. They know everyone inside out...that is why they cast some of them. As Jason said, people are cast for different reasons and they may not be aware. Some they cast because they are truly potential love interests. Some they cast because they see them as potential future Bachel/ettes. Some are cast because producers know they will cause drama, be hated by other contestants. Others have a sad story that will endear them to the audience. Some are cast for comedic relief. Some are cast because producers know they will be easily manipulated either because they have certain vulnerabilities they can play on or because they are egotistical/looking for fame/promote something that will make them easily grasp at what producers may be hinting at or because they know they have a girlfriend/boyfriend back home that they can exploit!

I don't think producers have a set story in mind when they start filming. They have the lead and cast in place. After the first night they know who the lead is interested in. We have been told repeatedly that the lead gives the producers their top 4 that night. They start arranging dates accordingly. Usually one who the lead is interested in and one date with someone the producers want for drama, the rest usually go on group dates. After each date producers evaluate...see if the lead is showing more/less interested in someone. See if anything was said done that could possibly be used later. I wish I could remember where, but several years ago, it may have been on RS's site, there was an article posted with one of the producers that worked on the show several years previously and they really explained in detail how it was all done. They have people pouring over all the filmed footage and every little thing is earmarked, noted and then used to splice and dice and frankenbite the show once they see where things are headed. Sometimes they know how these people are thinking before they do themselves and other times, they help them in the direction they want them to go with the questions they ask, suggestions they make, etc. It was really informative and I wish I could find it to repost. They really explained how the show is put together, how people are manipulated and that there is no traditional storyboard. but, rather a flexible, adaptive story that is developed as a result of the feelings that occur under some very manipulated circumstances. Of course, the ulitmate goal of all this edited splicing and dicing is the manipulation of us, the audience and clearly they do a very good job!

If anyone knows where to find the article Sprite was referring to from the previous producer of the show it would be great to know. We would all probably be shocked to find out some of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes...or maybe we wouldn't.

There's this one... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] but sounds like hers might have been more recent.

grace8136 wrote:There's this one... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] but sounds like hers might have been more recent.

Thanks but that wasn't the one I was thinking of. The one I was referring to was written several years later I believe. I wish I could remember where I read it but, that was when I first started really getting into the show and spoilers and I was jumping all over the place between different boards trying to find info. Most likely it was either RS or FORT.

Fantastic posting in this forum! I think the important thing to always keep in mind, is that it is a show for entertainment purposes first and foremost - the love story - if it is there - comes second. I agree that it is what happens post-show that counts. I think it really is an odd environment in which to try to find love which is why most contestants go on with hopes of promoting themselves or for the adventure and are not looking to find love. Realistically, the odds are not good for a couple off this show, although post-show both Des and Sean seem to each have made good matches and both couples look to be defying the odds. But it is definitely not a normal way to find your true love!

Fan videos are often good to watch since they are limited in their dialogue with a focus on the music, so you can examine the body language in more detail.

The one with Brooks lacks the Breakup Boo-Hoo (which posters on the motherboard debated "tear-wise"), but you get many key scenes leading up to it. The fireworks scene has her quite animated and wide-eyed. She does look quite happy and comfortable with Brooks, not afraid to kiss him. "Chres" fans might pick apart shots like the :44 mark in which she appears to be looking at Chris while hugging Brooks and at the 1:45 mark when she looks away from him as if glancing at a cameraman. Mind you, these are SUBJECTIVE, not concrete, observations that can be made.



I really dig the jazzy soundtrack and dreamlike quality to the video. She did say on his date in Madeira she was in a dream and on cloud nine.

For comparison, a "Chres" video. Is she gobsmacked over Chris or just intoxicated with booze? Is she thinking of Brooks in all of the shots? Many have commented that many leads "go through the motions" making out with future dumpees on beaches and yachts. The only problem this season is that Bryden and Kasey were the only others getting hot-tub sessions to compare to Chris and she was fully clothed in pre-Chris beaches, unless one counts the "steamy" pool session reported in her episode #4 blog (with a solo abc.net shot) with Brooks... and a fleeting shot of her and Juan Pablo shown on Men Tell All.



For fun... a famous acting scene that can be compared with EITHER Chris or Brooks.



One BIG problem with any body language discussion this season is that the editors buried Chris in the earliest episodes, while showcased plenty of Brooks. Even Brooks' sit-down at Meet & Greet was shown straight-forwardly, if not to the great extent as Ben's, Bryden's and Drew's. Yet Chris only said one word between his bending-on-one-knee limo arrival and the first rose ceremony... "Seattle". (Perhaps that was his storyline as presented in episode #1? Proposing, shoe trouble... needing buckle help in Atlantic City... and her willingness to move to Seattle as the #1 obstacle?)

If it is true that Nate Hartsock was dead set against his sister "falling fast" for anybody on a TV show like he felt she did with Sean, then we have a substantial case to support Chris being "downsized" in his connection by editing. In another example, episode #2, we only fleetingly see his face and NOT hers as they sit down on a couch. Why hide anything if "nothing" is there? Also Chris told Nate in Antigua that he was a skeptic coming into this, mentioned before on the rooftop in episode #3 (despite Becky confirming the opposite on hometown when describing his excited text message at the airport).

One thing was for certain: Brooks was the better choice for a bride and groom dress up date than Chris. Brooks' storyline as The Heartbreaker, whether he realized it or not... or Desiree realized it... was foreshadowed under the Hollywood sign when she told him that she was willing to "go through heartbreak" because "it means I was not meant to be with that person" (repeating what Nate said with Sean a previous season and would state again in his speech after hometowns in the LA visit). She also told him that you kinda have to go through the hard stuff to get to where you need to be, edited right after his daddy talk but also a suggestion of what difficult "roles" Brooks may have to play in the future.

Was there any storyboarding? You know we can't answer that with a yes or no. Jason and Molly claimed they saw "a chart" at the start of Jillian's season, but that was 2009. Maybe recent seasons are ALL 100% reality now, nothing fake, and don't require ANY "casting by role". *cough cough* Excuse me a moment here...

... sorry. I'm baaaaaaad! Hey! You can't ignore the many cute little coincidences on screen.... Brooks and Bryden in a Bentley (name matching a previous "I'm leaving, Bros" guy), the car color is turquoise and matching the color of Frank's '59 Cadillac (Ali's season)... just as the Hollywood sign dates match between Brooks and Frankie... and the post-hometown visits with girlfriend and mom/sis, Mister Harrison cross-questioning both guys before breakup time and the fantasy date departure boo-hooing as well. Well... I take that back. Desiree had no flower to dump in the sand, but her outfit resembled Ali's with a bikini underneath. Also every Bachelorette claims she "falls for more than one person"... even Emily Maynard ("I don't wanna hurt anybody..." as she swims with Arie and the squeaking dolphin in the promos).

Again... this is all just speculative analysis and take it simply as that. Everything I state here can easily be debated and, no, I don't have the answers.

I am not going to analyze a Brooks scene for now to determine what is all real or what is staged, but I will do a Chris scene so we can see if any tomfoolery is involved here. You be the judge... what do differing "eyes" see with this next scene?

Editing 101: Are they hiding anything or is there nothing to hide?



:00 mark: When she says this date was amazing, Chris looks up with a peculiar grin on his face. This was shot after their roof top get-together, for which we saw very little of apart from talk. Later in episode #6, her Barcelona poem suggested quite a bit more happening there.

:16 mark: Chris is sitting by her as she says this guy made a great impression "today". Brooks is shown as she says great impression "tonight" on account of his comeback from the hospital. In other words, both guys are presented equally here in voice-byte dubs.

:30 mark: Chris reminds us, in case we forgot, that he had NO date last week. We were also informed that JP and Roberto also didn’t in their episodes #2, although both got solo dates in #3 as their very firsts.
(cf. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] )

:32 mark: Her "bye you guys" sounds bland at first viewing, but usually we hear this type of line when a dating or married couple is retiring for the evening… LOL!

:38 mark: Mike comments on them getting “that extra bonus time together" not about the relationship itself.

:46 mark: "Giving Chris the rose means I get to spend some extra quality time WITH a private concert by Kate Earl".
…not WITH Chris. The audience isn't even thinking of Chris now, they are thinking of the singer.

:49 mark: During the moment she says "extra quality time", Chris face is blurred digitally and the camera only fleetingly shows her wide-eyed facial expression, one some think she only gave Brooks during the fireworks in Madeira.

1:16 mark: Over the lyrics “when you are down”, Ben and Brandon look over, but not Drew… as if to hint that Drew would rather not. Key words "hallucinating on the edge of town" between shots of guys looking and the couple starting to kiss as if to suggest that the audience (either Brandon and the guys or the TV viewers) may be thinking something different than what they are seeing.

1:27 mark: Brandon comments being jealous and we do see some kissing. One could say that is an "Easter Egg" clue for those actually paying close attention. Then he changes the subject abruptly in a PI from the subject of “them” to HIS wish to be dancing one on one with her.

1:47 mark: Brandon and Zack comment on what is going on, but Ben dictates “I think it is sometimes better not to see IT in this situation”. Drew is contemplating about his comment as if he is concerned, but those viewers who happened to have read Reality Steve probably took that as a cue to go visit the refrigerator or potty since Ben implies this isn’t much of a moment to watch.

2:03 mark: NEVER have Chris smile this early in the season in his PI sessions. After all, he has to play The Skeptic Coming Into This. That is why all smiling is out of focus on his part and her face hidden at all times. Note the next lyric by Kate is “I never knew what I was signing up for…”

2:17 mark: After the lyric “I knew it was hard, but not this hard core”, have Desiree talk about Chris’ “little personality traits” as if describing a total stranger.

2:28 mark: After she says Chris makes her comfortable to “be myself”, Kate sings “no matter what I do”…
…like making a spectacle of her self over Brooks on national TV?

2:45 mark: Have Chris discuss their relationship in the same bland tone that Daddy George does about peoples’ backs on his chiropractor table.

(Speaking of Daddy... after giving Chris a "nose job" and TOTALLY revolting some viewers, he made a key boo-boo on screen... saying he hopes this "will get you through the next few weeks" then corrects himself "well hopefully the next few weeks" and starts to laugh. This may be a sign that the Siegfrieds already knew Chris was F1. cf. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] )

Last scene closes with “I won’t surrender”…

Thanks grace8136 for the article suggestion. If anyone comes up with the more recent one that Sprite is referring too please post it. I'd be very interested to read it.

Wouldn't it be great to have real conversations with Des and the guys to find out what happened behind the scenes without the TPTB contract to worry about. I'm sure they could write a book...maybe they will when this is all over like the show gets cancelled.

Thanks for the post of the fan videos. I know a lot of people thought this season was awful but I loved it and couldn't wait for Monday's to come. Probably because Brooks was spoiled to be F1 there were lots of fan videos of Bres. and I still love watching them. We all see what we want to see don't we????? Amazes me how two people can watch the same thing and come away with two (or twenty) totally different interpretations. :Clap: :Nod:    :vomit:   :lala:    :sourgrapes:   

I loved/hated this show!!!