Chris Discussion Group

Sprite wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:

soccermom333 wrote:

relaxing wrote:I think Brooks was pulling back or at least staying still but Des wasn't.  It was obvious he was her choice and she also really liked Chris, but no way she said the things she said if she was on the fence between Brooks and Chris.

Brooks will always be one of my favorite "characters" to come out of this show because he handled the whole thing like such a real person.  I could see myself and many others in his process.  It's the most normal reaction I can think of.

The breakup was one of the most real scenes this show has ever produced, IMO?  It didn't seem scripted, reshot or fake to me at all.  Des said what came to mind, that's why some of it was so gut-wrenching and inappropriate towards the other guys.  They both seemed truly completely drained and defeated by the whole thing.

In retrospect I wish that had been the end of the show.  Spoilers and episodes show Brooks as her choice.   Real and heartbreaking breakup scene happens.  Surprise ending - she fell for a guy who didn't fall back, but was a good guy.  She tells the other guys she's in no condition to carry on.  The end.  very sad and shocking, big ratings and water cooler talk for TPTB.

Then at ATFR she and Chris appear together and tell viewers how they started a relationship back in real life and are very much in love.  This would have made me so happy for Des that she found love with a great guy and I think I'd feel much more invested in them and their story.  Like a happy ending came out of the ashes of such a sorrowful finale.  Great T.V. The way it happened though was just so icky to me.  I felt sorry for Des and Chris that a beautiful proposal just felt wrong and silly.  I felt like Chris was getting scammed.  If the breakup hadn't come across as so real, maybe not such an issue to me as a viewer, but it did and it rendered the proposal that came after it a real downer.

I'm happy for Des and Chris in real life, but the ending of the show, as a piece of tv entertainment, sucked big time for me.

With all due respect I totally disagree. The ending was amazing and was very much like real life. Des was blindsided by brooks and when he broke up with her, she could see what she needed was right in front of her. She said so herself.  They are so in love and meant to be.  The proposal was ine if the best from this show ever!  

They are extremely happy and the ending showed their joy and love for one another. People saw it and FELT it. They are the real deal and one if the few real relationships to come off the show. You could see the clarity on her face on her last dates with Chris. It is not like she turned to whoever was standing there and said oh how about you.  Their relationship has grown so much post show. Their love grew even stronger.  You can see the happiness in their eyes and I for one wish them nothing but the best and can't wait to see what the future holds for them !!   :cutesmile!: 

Bottoms line is brooks did her a favor.  I respect him for staying true to his feelings through the process. He was honest and that is something to respect.  

Happy that fans can have a discussion about the topic and still stay respectful to Des, Chris and each other.

I agree, the proposal and the ending was real life.  She got blindsided by Brooks, which in turn, made her realize that the guy that had been by her side from the beginning, been there to talk to, relate to is actually still there and very much in love with her, I feel, made her realize how much she loved him.  You are right, the proposal was awesome, real and heart-felt.  They looked like they love each other on the proposal day and now they look even more in love.  Just the way they looked at each other then and now tells the story.

As far as the spoilers and the episodes showing that Brooks was her choice, I am going to respectfully disagree with that.  I felt that if you stood back and re-watched it all from a neutral position, you could see cracks forming between Brooks and Des and the glue that was taking place between Des and Chris.  I truely believe that even if Brooks stayed, she would of taken Chris;  He would of been her final choice on the season.

I did watch from a neutral position. I wasn't a particular fan of any of them. The cracks between Des and Brooks were evident...not so much the glue between Des and Chris. Yes, she liked him and yes, he was better suited for her, but, given a choice, if Brooks had wanted her, he would have been it. He didn't, so he wasn't. Clearly others saw it differently, but all my friends who watch the show...who are casual viewers and not as obsessive about the show as I am...thought she came across as desparate and they didn't buy the proposal for a second. Doesn't really matter now since things can change post show. They seem to be happy. Good luck to them. I will always be sceptical of how things went down but if they manage to walk down the aisle, then power to them for working through everything!

I do see them making things work out and fingers crossed, they walk down the aisle and are happy.

Rolly wrote:JBF I hate to  but I just can't let it pass when things are said that aren't true. Des was crying during the break up, if you doubt it go back and look at the You Tube Des and Brooks Break Up parts 2 and 3. It starts at part 2 at 1:43 and she has tears streaming down her face in part 3 at 1:06 when she tells Brooks, "I love you....you are the only one I can say that too". Actually, for a refresher watch the whole break up. Anyone that has any doubts about Des' feelings for Brooks should watch the whole darned thing. Is Des being dishonest? Is she in on the whole conspiracy and "Brooks plant"?  When she says she would accept if Brooks got down on one knee was she just acting or being straight out untruthful ???? OMG Des isn't that good of an actress to fake that whole scene. I love her for her honesty...and Brooks too.

And Brooks was crying (you call it blubbering), he was emotional, so what? He was breaking up with someone he cared about and didn't want to hurt. It made him sad and he felt bad. That's not a weakness in my opinion it's a strength.  If only more men could be as sensitive as Brooks, lets just say it couldn't hurt. Would you rather he be a "Bentley" ? I sure wouldn't, what an ass that guy was.

"You are entitled to your opinion but not to your own facts". :lala:  Des was crying...let's be honest. :why: And I would challenge anyone to go back and re-watch the break up scene and tell me she didn't love the guy (I dare you...). I love Des'  honesty and vulnerability. She said again she loved him even though he broke her heart.

*chuckle chuckle* My post was mostly to amuse grace8136 above mine, but I figured I would get a few of you going. For a while, I thought this forum was asleep and had moved on. Don't take it all toooooo literally when I said her face was bone dry. Then again, a cluster over on the abc.com boards would probably argue with you with more ferocity about what they were seeing.

I think you can tell that I really like Brooks, even if I didn't see as much "IT" between him and Des as so many viewers.

The only way to objectively look at that breakup scene is to compare it with the "like" scenes with Ali and Frank... and, yes, despite all of the Robbbberto giggling, she too put on a big show with tears streaming down her face. A LOT of tears... enough for all of the youtube videos of it to disappear online post-show. (All we have now to view on youtube is the next ceremony when she was now over it all and pretty sure about Robbbberto and Chris Lambton.) At least Des didn't repeat Ali's line delivered to Chris Harrison after he said there were still two great guys left: "But why do I want Frank to come back?" Regardless of what Harrison kept suggesting in the finale show, neither Des nor Brooks gave any indication that he would.

We can also compare it to Ashley/Bentley despite that drama happening in earlier episodes #3 and #6 (when he returned to Hong Kong) instead of the fantasy dates late in the season. Remember even Bentley told viewers there was "a lot of crying... and crying" as if viewers couldn't believe what they were watching. Say what we want about "it always being JP" but that was NOT the storyline they gave us no matter how much we convince ourselves it was all fake.

Some of the emotion could have included past feelings of rejection experienced all over again as well as the fear somebody else (namely their final choice guy) would repeat the action. It is quite possible the handlers pressure those who want to leave earlier to stay as long as possible just so the lead will have this emotional turmoil late in the game as some sort of "test" to see if... oh... who knows?... maybe if she is serious about the process or, more importantly, to see if the final two guys are when they see how upset she is. Even after Constantine ditched Ashley (and she hardly batted an eye), she chirped the same speech to Ben and JP that Ali and Des did to their final two about only accepting her rose if they were actually thinking about a proposal.

Anybody who assumes the lead has interest in only ONE contestant all season long... and this would apply to those who believe it was always Brooks as equally as those who say it was always Chris... are not taking into consideration how many guys are on this show as "possibilities" and how little actual time she has with each of them, determining what kind of post-show future there is with each. Sometimes these Bachelorettes even get "cold feet" in the process and may wonder if a proposal is really what they want anyway. Des allegedly wanted to stay in California and brother Nate even suggested she might break up with Chris just so she can return. Even if Brooks was giving her signs he wasn't ready to commit to her (not necessarily to commit to somebody), she knew they could at least try a few months together post show and mutually breakup... and she would be back to where she was originally. With Chris, she was forced to change some things in her lifestyle, like moving so he can stay with his job. In fact, that was The Obstacle that Chris kept mentioning in his poetry book, not the other guys competing against him... since he seemed oddly confident (for some unknown reason we are still trying to figure out) that he would wind up with her in the end regardless of what happened. (Speaking of which... Molly felt the same way about Jason, knowing fully well he and Melissa would split. How she knew is another story many of us have analyzed to great length... although we all know that Melissa was not over Tye at the time.)

In a Fox interview, Jillian did state that her dad told her to only propose on TV and break up with "him" later, regardless of who she chose. She was not ready for longterm commitment, but was still pleasantly surprised that she and Ed lasted a year. She was genuinely undecided as to what to do when Reid crashed her final rose ceremony. Her initial thought was to dump both him and Ed when he arrived, but Harrison coached her to accept Ed and she was happy in that moment with her decision since they were quite comfortable with each other.

JBF, I will be careful in reading your posts in the future....it's always helpful to know the posters who try to provoke.... 

JBF!  I wondered where you went!  You did it again. I agree with many of your thoughts. For starters, Des's season was very much like Ali's an Ashley's. I will never forget Ali's crying scene when Frank left. She had such a "pretty cry!"  Des gives Ali a run for her money with her "pretty cry," but in the end Ali still wins that award in my book!  Haha!

Agree with you that most leads have a top 3 or 4 that they are considering in the end.  You are right that they are thinking post show and who they could realistically have a relationship with AND what would that look like.   Ali was thinking Frank was the one until he broke up with her.  She also has strong feelings for Roberto, and even admitted recently that they never should have gotten engaged. She loved  him and actually stayed with him for 18 months (long time in bachelor show years!)    She admitted recently that they just were not compatible. She loved him though.

Ashley was completely smitten with Bentley.  It was written all over her  face!  At least he left early enough, but even during their fantasy date, JP thought he had come back AGAIN!  JP and Ashley are so right for each other and again, probably realized that post show!

For Jillian it was always about Ed. She admitted post show to picking him because she had the "most chemistry" with him. She also said it was post show that she fell in love with him.  I disagree with you that she wanted to pick reid or send both of them home. I think it was always going to be Ed. Period. I do think she took the engagement with him as a "lets see where this goes post show" thing!  She was serious about him and I do believe really wanted it to work and thought she could "change" him. I also believe in Ed's own unique way he loved her too but was definitely NOT ready to get married and was probably still too much of a playboy to settle down with anyone.

As far as Molly and Jason, I believe Jason knew  early that things would not work with Melissa.  Her not wanting to move to Seattle might be the main reason.  I believe Jason contacted Molly early so that is why Molly knew she would end up with him.

I also did not see "it" between brooks and des. Well...I did see des was smitten with him.  I do believe once Brooks left, Des was telling the truth and she could focus on the relationship she had started with Chris. They clearly had a very heartfelt finale/proposal even though most fans were so caught up in the spoilers being wrong, that they could not see it. I also believe, as with most couples from this show, that des and Chris's relationship really took off post show.  Probably surprised Des!  It was very telling to me that she took off for Seattle so soon after the finale aired.  Clearly they had been talking on planning. I knew when des left California that things were serious!  As time goes on, these two continue to grow closer, and more in love.  A wedding happening for them seems more and more possible.  ;) still....time will tell.

Producer manipulation should probably be mentioned too.  But my post is long enough.  Ha!  I will save that for another day!

Thanks again JBF for your thoughts!  Love hearing them!  What do you think of all the excitement with Seancat ??  I am happy for them and happy for their fans! :)

I'm mostly away this week... abroad. Just checked in yesterday and was surprised how much this thread grew.

Oh Rolly, I know where you stand and it delights me to provoke you. Just think how boring it would be here if we all DID sing Kumbaya. All of us have to agree to disagree with a lot on this franchise simply because we weren't there and are watching a TV show edited to over-dramatize everything. Brooks pretty much admitted that he was shocked by her declarations of ILY... and I didn't get the impression he himself bought it all post-show as much as many viewers did. Were his comments supporting Chris' connection with her on ATFR just an act of "damage control" and she may, for all we know, still be hiding photos of him under the bed? Heck, anything's possible. I just am one weary and tired viewer of too many "like" seasons to believe it all.

The day Fleiss shows us a Love Story with Final One from start to finish and nobody "blindsiding" the lead as a favored one will be the day hell freezes over. Unless of course... the lead had no desire in a romance, just "showmance", in the first place. I am no longer even sold on Brad's storyline focusing all on Emily since he is so happy now 41 and single. Vienna and Courtney were edited to be "all about winning" and they won a prize that wasn't exactly what they bargained for.

Soccermom, I was referring to what Jillian stated in that one interview. She liked Ed but wasn't sure about accepting a proposal from him. In the end, she felt most comfortable with him... and, of course, there was The Volcano.

Regarding Sean and Catherine... they are hardy a "wow" couple to me, but even I question the editing that season too. Both Catherine and Chris were "Find Waldos" in the first three episodes and the key question is "why?" when Sean was supposedly smitten more by Tierra and AshLee (and split between dumping Catherine and Desiree after hometowns) and Des dressing as bride and groom with Brooks. Why hide something that is not there?

JBF,

I think your saying there was something there between chris and des and the sneaky producers hid it. I agree!!!   That's why he was hidden when they put together the first 3 episodes!  

Haha!  Yes, I remember Jillian's volcano!  They were not very subtle!  Ha!  Do you agree that Jillian post show was sincere?  I followed Ed and Jill pretty closely post show and that was my assessment. Also post show, what are your thoughts on des and Chris.??  Do you agree that it "grew" after the cameras turned off??  Or do you think there is a lot we did not see and with all that was left on the cutting room floor would show a very different view. ?

As far you saying Sean and cat are not a "wow" couple what do you mean?  I actually think abc believes otherwise and they
will be milking their couple for all they are worth!!

Oh and I definitely do not think des is hiding photos of brooks under her (and Chris's mattress!). She has LONG moved on. I think she realized awhile ago that brooks was not into her. No secret there! ;)

Keep the thoughts coming!

Rolly wrote:JBF, I will be careful in reading your posts in the future....it's always helpful to know the posters who try to provoke.... 

 Rolly, you too are a  extraordinaire... and I like you just fine that way. From the Chres thread...

Rolly wrote:I'm just glad that the negative Brooks focus was replaced with SeanCat and the wedding plans....that's what they're called right?!?   Wish I were kidding....

I've had two glasses of wine and no food, let's just blame it on that!!!  

It would be so dull around here without people posting their true thoughts, however controversial.

JBF is like the bach historian, keeping it real, pointing out the similarities season after season. I don't always agree with JBF, but a lot of what he is pointing out, is very valid stuff for sleuthers to consider IMO.

JBF, I tried to find the break-up with Frank on youtube. Interesting that it is gone, but hopefully that means Des' break-up scene won't still be up for her kids to watch! :shocked!:

Or for Chris to watch!:shocked!: 

bamafan wrote:Or for Chris to watch!:shocked!: 

Oh good point bamafan! It can't disappear fast enough! I considered that maybe Chris had watched it, but didn't want to discuss it with the press. who knows? I was noticing in the press for Sean and Cat, they are bringing up ancient history with Emily. I'd hate for Des and Chris to have a tv wedding and have clips with Brooks thrown back into the PR for it. They need to put a "no Brooks" clause in their contract!!

Nothing this season can compare with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKd2Wd-rAuU

We just forgot about it because it was earlier.

Oh Soccermom, you are so cute with your re-questioning. They may not be a "wow" couple for ME, but I would never pooh-pooh their millions of fans and even I could see the editors trying to downsize that connection like Des/Chris with all of Sean's on screen L-U-V for dumper Emily, Tierra, AshLee, Desiree and every other woman he saw as his future wife besides Catherine, his Soloflex, fried chicken and eggs, the Ivory Soap in his very long televised shower, the TV monitors on DWTS...

JBF wrote:Nothing this season can compare with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKd2Wd-rAuU

We just forgot about it because it was earlier.

Oh Soccermom, you are so cute with your re-questioning. They may not be a "wow" couple for ME, but I would never pooh-pooh their millions of fans and even I could see the editors trying to downsize that connection like Des/Chris with all of Sean's on screen L-U-V for dumper Emily, Tierra, AshLee, Desiree and every other woman he saw as his future wife besides Catherine, his Soloflex, fried chicken and eggs, the Ivory Soap in his very long televised shower, the TV monitors on DWTS...

Haha!  Okay, okay, you don't have to tell me twice!  I gotcha!   Just wanted to make sure.   :giggle: 

Wow! Just wanted to add that I watched the video of Bentley breaking up with Ashley. She was really into him. Something I forgot about. Weird to go back and see it because JP and Ashley are so perfect together. Well they are so it is just weird. Makes you realize the editors do use the same material over and over again.

I love this board!!

JBF wrote:Nothing this season can compare with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKd2Wd-rAuU

We just forgot about it because it was earlier.

Oh Soccermom, you are so cute with your re-questioning. They may not be a "wow" couple for ME, but I would never pooh-pooh their millions of fans and even I could see the editors trying to downsize that connection like Des/Chris with all of Sean's on screen L-U-V for dumper Emily, Tierra, AshLee, Desiree and every other woman he saw as his future wife besides Catherine, his Soloflex, fried chicken and eggs, the Ivory Soap in his very long televised shower, the TV monitors on DWTS...

sorry but that least sentence made no sense to me