Chris Discussion Group

JBF, HILARIOUS!! Love your post. Just wanted to remind you that Deanna did not have a LC date with Graham. (I think this is what you were referring to?) He left before the fantasy dates, just like Brooks.

I agree with your earlier post too that the audience was being fed the "Brooks story line," and everyone, or most, bought it. Des and Ali's story line were exactly the same. The only difference is Frank left to go back to an old girlfriend. Ali did what Des did and moved on rather quickly. Ali was with Roberto in the real world for 18 months but were NOT a good match. Chris and Des seem to be very compatible. Time will tell. ;)

So Mura, JBF, SM.. you all think the Brooks break-up was fake? Do you believe only Des knew that and not Brooks?  

On Deanna's season Jason's LCD was swimming with the sharks and Jesse got a plane ride to a private island. Yep, no doubt in my mine she picked Jesse at the very latest after fantasy dates.

Rosepetal wrote:On Deanna's season Jason's LCD was swimming with the sharks and Jesse got a plane ride to a private island.  Yep, no doubt in my mine she picked Jesse at the very latest after fantasy dates.

Actually, Deanna was into Jesse during their first 1 on 1 date. Their date lasted longer than any of the others. I remember someone was able to find out how long each of Deanne's dates were, and the ones that she had with Jesse were always the longest. This was how a few of us posters knew that Deanne was going to choose Jesse in the end.

grace8136 wrote:So Mura, JBF, SM.. you all think the Brooks break-up was fake? Do you believe only Des knew that and not Brooks?  

No, I don't think it was fake or an acting "job" if you will, but rather a exaggerated scene with plenty of cues given from the producers directed towards Des.  Ha!  As I read back what I just wrote it does sound like an acting job!  I guess what I mean is I believe that there was probably either something in her contract or they discussed with her beforehand what was to take place on the pier.  She even looked like she knew something was coming and was preparing herself.  She had a heads up about it I'm sure.  Remember Jill's, and Ashley's fantasy date (maybe Ali too--can't remember) where they came out in something seductive?  I have a feeling that Des negotiated to take that out of her contract, and they replaced it with something else.  Just a thought, I could be way off, but that LONG scene on the pier seemed off to me.  Love this thread btw!  Very thought provoking!

Just wanted to add.....I don't think this was planned from the very start, but close. I think the producers knew Brooks was going to bow out and they ran with it. I think Des did have feelings for Brooks, right or wrong, and they knew she would be upset, so the planned their "break-up scene." I do think Des is telling the truth and got over Brooks very quickly. Feelings for Chris were already there, and only intensified after Brooks left. Kind of like JP and Ashley when Bentley left. Since then, being in the real world is where I believe Chris and Des REALLY began falling in love.

grace8136 wrote:So Mura, JBF, SM.. you all think the Brooks break-up was fake? Do you believe only Des knew that and not Brooks?  

umm...IDK how to put it in the best articulated way. sure i am sure Des has developed feeling for Brooks. but i agree with SM that they were milking the break up all the way to the bank. All i see is, Des`s storyline "is not so different" than  Ali`s. You can say Ali`s tears for Frank were very real, if you will. but i doubt it will be even near to what happen if the one left was Roberto. the same with Des. I bet she would be more devastated if the one left were Chris.

let me just borrow a comment from YT that i found:
Ailina Heng 1 week ago
Why're people saying that she had to fall out of love and in love with Chris? HELLO, she has had a strong connection with Chris just as long as she had with Brooks. It's not falling out of love with one guy to another. It's realizing that the one she wanted wasn't the one for her. We're girls. That happens. Girls want the wrong guys sometimes when the right one is right in front of them. I love how they are together! Their hometown date made me root for Chris because you can just SEE the spark

she has said she always been falling in love with Chris, after all. I tend to think she had been using 2 colored-eye-glasses throughout the journey up to Antigua. the rosie-colored one, "in the moment" love (her word, not mine ), for Brooks, and the purple-colored-one, "lasting, forever" love (again, her word, not mine ) for Chris. In the end, after removing the rosie-colored for good, she realized the purple one is the best suited for her  .

one thing that  made me not believing the spoiler was her huff post intvw where she said, she doesnt have to wait for 3 years to get married. when u know, u know.It surprised me to know her real intention was indeed to find her true, eternal love.  I personally believe out of her F4, only Chris and Zak who likely ready to get married soon. Knowing the fact that Zak was booted by Antigua, the only possible option of her F1 is Chris, IMO.

soccermom333 wrote:

grace8136 wrote:So Mura, JBF, SM.. you all think the Brooks break-up was fake? Do you believe only Des knew that and not Brooks?  

No, I don't think it was fake or an acting "job" if you will, but rather a exaggerated scene with plenty of cues given from the producers directed towards Des.  Ha!  As I read back what I just wrote it does sound like an acting job!  I guess what I mean is I believe that there was probably either something in her contract or they discussed with her beforehand what was to take place on the pier.  She even looked like she knew something was coming and was preparing herself.  She had a heads up about it I'm sure.  Remember Jill's, and Ashley's fantasy date (maybe Ali too--can't remember) where they came out in something seductive?  I have a feeling that Des negotiated to take that out of her contract, and they replaced it with something else.  Just a thought, I could be way off, but that LONG scene on the pier seemed off to me.  Love this thread btw!  Very thought provoking!

Just wanted to add.....I don't think this was planned from the very start, but close.  I think the producers knew Brooks was going to bow out and they ran with it.  I think Des did have feelings for Brooks, right or wrong, and they knew she would be upset, so the planned their "break-up scene."  I do think Des is telling the truth and got over Brooks very quickly.  Feelings for Chris were already there, and only intensified after Brooks left.  Kind of like JP and Ashley when Bentley left.  Since then, being in the real world is where I believe Chris and Des REALLY began falling in love.  

I agree with most of your post, however, I do think TPTB type cast Brooks to be the one that was most like the guys that Des usually falls hard for, and I also think that it's the reason Brooks had such an over the top first 1 on 1 date. I really don't think that Brooks was suppose to go no further than he did. In regards to the sexy outfits during FSD, the female lead wear the sexiest and more open outfits with their F1. One of things that I noticed was Des' tops for each of the F3 guys. Although Des' tops were short with Brooks and Drew, her top with Chris was opened to her bikini top. So, it pretty much confirmed that Chris was going to be Des' F1. Does anyone remember the dress that Ali wore for Roberto's FSD???? The cut in the front of her dress was so deep and so revealing. LOL  

This whole show is so complicated because, yes, it is a “show” and, no, not everything is real on screen... but it is still hard to find all of the dividing lines. I can’t stop myself from lining up Des/Brooks relationship with Ali/Frank and Ashley/Bentley along with temporary detours to Emily/Arie. Yes, these situations differ in various ways, but there are too many “like” patterns for little ol’ me.

Ashley said this in voice-over so maybe we shouldn’t count it, but it was still stated on screen:

“I completely fell in love with Bentley last night. There’s something about him that is so sincere, I just know he’s my guy. If it was up to me, I would grab Bentley and take off to Salt Lake City. Honestly. I think I am leaving here with what I hope to leave with… a husband. Today marks the first day of my love story.”

Although it was spoken in episode #3 and not #9, that is still a pretty strong statement. AND she was still appearing eager to take him back in Hong Kong in episode #6, in addition to discussing him on screen in too many episodes to count.

Desiree mostly stated on screen that Brooks “could be” the one and told Harrison she was at the finish line with him, but she also said in episode #5 that Chris had “everything” she wanted in a husband… so Chris was never exactly chopped liver. She also told Becky in McMinnville on screen, not Janice in Utah (although she may have off screen), that she saw her son as the father of her children… and told bro Nathaniel after returning to LA that she saw Chris as a “good husband and a good father” but was “enjoying being in the moment” with Brooks, a line that hardly sounded long-term.

Even more revealing is that all three Bachelorettes predicted what would happen ahead of time… on screen. Coincidence? Or some storyboard at work?

Under the Hollywood sign, Des tells Brooks that she is willing to go through heartbreak because it means “that I’m not meant to be with that person”, which is precisely what Nate said the previous season and would repeat again twice (with a variation of the word order) when he visited her in LA later.

Ashley told Bentley at the comedy club: “If you did choose to leave, it would be harder than anything I ever went through last time I was here”.

Ali also foreshadowed some things with Frank under the Hollywood sign (her episode #2) as well, but more importantly were lines heard in Istanbul (episode #6). She told him directly “I think my relationship with you scares me” but later, with a definite glow in her face in a PI session “I guess I feel that Frank has the potential to break my heart, but I just have a feeling about him. I just feel there’s something really special that we have. Something I’ve never felt before.”  … apparently not even with Roberto by episode #6 if we believe what Ali is dishing out.

There are different ways of looking at this. The Bachelorettes may have said similar stuff with multiple guys and we only heard it with the “dumpers”. Yet it raises a question: why bring it up so early in the season if you have confidence that “he” may be “the one”?

On another note, I never take stock in everything these women say… especially in interviews after they break up with their pick. Ali said she might have chosen Frank despite earlier saying Roberto was always the one, but I think she was “sticking it to the ex” a bit there. Although so much has been made about Deanna and Graham, when you look back at actual scenes with the two, it is a bit of a let-down… appearing more hyped up in memory than reality. Yet her break up with Jesse was downright ugly, so the “legend” of Graham grew legs in every interview conducted afterward to the point that he became Cary Grant, Brad Pitt and Justin Bieber rolled up into one. We were all thankful Steve Stagliano got her to shut up.

In the actual break-up scenes, Des talks about giving her heart to Brooks directly TO Brooks, just as Ashley sobs that she can’t continue because she saw Bentley “at the end of this” directly TO Bentley. Bentley simply smirked, but Brooks had an emotional breakdown. Frank cried quite a bit too, but (unfortunately) we don’t have a lot of youtube footage to consult here. Two recaps I referenced stated that Ali asks Chris Harrison “Like why am I feeling right now that I hope Frank will come back?” after he tells her she has two really good guys left.

Ali was probably the one we saw the most tears on her face, although we can debate if those were actually Frank tears or tears of distress that maybe Roberto will bolt as well. Ashley cried a lot too, but we still needed Bentley to tell us on screen that there was “a lot of crying… and crying”. Some are questioning if Des really is with Brooks (since her face is covered a lot), although we see HIM beat red and moist. Obviously he didn’t enjoy the experience, but… hey… Des did tell him in another foreshadow moment weeks before that you kinda have to get through the hard stuff to get to where you need to be.

Grumpy in Snow White said wimmin’ “are full of wicked wiles”. Well… not necessarily true, BUT we must remember that Desiree is capable of some tomfoolery since she pulled on Sean that ex-boyfriend stunt… not to mention being “tested” herself on her first date by both Sean and Chris Harrison with the broken art piece. Harrison himself had yet to receive “payback” from her since she didn’t know HE was watching her on a camera screen along with Sean. For this reason alone, I didn’t believe anything coming out of her mouth in her sit-downs with HIM.

Two other things that need added here are the “sibling” angle and “therapy” angle.

Ali’s situation didn’t involve the former, but Des had Nate, who practically thinks his sister will marry in an instant the first guy she meets (and she had to reassure him that she will take Chris “day by day” and not settle), and Ashley had Chrystie, who accused her in Vomo (Fiji) for having too many “gut reactions” starting with “that guy who left and came back” and now JP. Obviously the editors took that into consideration by showing Des and Brooks dressing up like “we are on our honeymoon” and later have her fling herself to him, while Ashley fell in love with William Holman on “half a date” (they almost married for real in Las Vegas) then, after the comedy roast, moved onto Conquest #2 with Bentley Williams from Salt Lake City. Chrystie must have watched that season with her jaw dropped further to the ground than lil’ ol’ cynical Nate. No wonder she was on Team Cupcake by the end of the season (even though she may have been after Ash and JP came back to the states after filming anyway).

One cute little “dig” back in Ashley’s season that always tickled me: When Jeff (whom I suspect was a paid “mole” that season) removes his mask in episode #3 after telling her “true love starts from something on the inside and, yes, physical attraction is important but really longterm… it is all about what’s on the inside”, she comments that “he is a lot older than I thought he was”. Chrystie tells both Ashley and JP separately in her sitdowns with them that he is “older”, which makes her even more skeptical of the relationship.

It is still interesting to re-watch previous season scenes for additional insight… in this case, our beloved Nate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15-LkvfjW7k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAVTe-bf6tM

Somehow I feel that Chris’ EDIT was a correction to Nate’s feelings, particularly the way he discusses Desiree in PIs and voice-overs and his repeat of the line “I was a skeptic coming into this” which I don’t think was entirely true when you hear Becky on the hometown.

I now think each season has one or two Therapy Guys and Gals. (Maybe Tierra grabbing all of Sean’s attention counts as “therapy”?)

Arie on Emily’s season is THE classic example of a Therapy Guy, put on the show to get the lead over some obstacle before she can move on with her final one. Emily may have long gotten over Ricky, but production/editing team still needed the “closure” shown on screen since Brad already fussed his season that “her ex is at the forefront of her mind”. Soooo… we got this line from Arie in episode #1: “I know Emily’s ex fiancé also raced and he passed away on the way to a race. Being a race car driver can bring back some painful memories for Emily, so I am definitely nervous going into this. I know that it is a big risk, but I am willing to take that risk… and I hope she is too.”

We can view Brooks/Bentley/Frank and their Heartbreak Drama as part of The Therapy.

Ashley’s phobia of guys leaving her with “dot dot dot” must have begun sometime pre-show… and she needed to learn (on screen that is) the difference between the “gut attractions” that her sister accused her for and the slow-burn type of love that JP represented.

Frank represented “Hollywood Dreams” to Ali, which is why HE got a Hollywood sign date… but that automobile breakdown on the freeway before-hand… and the “omen” the fortune teller gave them in Istanbul… both indicated that Ali had to reevaluate what she really needed. Her basic theme with Roberto was “conquering over fears together”, like LA skylining, stage performances in the Lion King and feeding frisky skates in Tahiti.

The whole Brooks relationship was about “being in the moment”, “on Cloud 9” and “picturing the best dream you ever had and living it” rather than, as George suggests in McMinnville, seeing if you are “compatible”, sharing same health and domestic concerns. As he said, while working on Des’ back, “My first impression of Desiree is that she’s a good girl, but knowing that she’s been through a lot of ups and downs, this treatment promotes clarity. It kinda like refocuses you.”

Actually I think the best line all season came from Becky talking to Chris: “But you are also not completely in the real world. What’s going to happen when you jump into that?” After seeing the couple in the “real world” (for better or for worse), we generally forget much that happened in The Bubble that we sat through Monday nights anyway.

JBF wrote:This whole show is so complicated because, yes, it is a “show” and, no, not everything is real on screen... but it is still hard to find all of the dividing lines. I can’t stop myself from lining up Des/Brooks relationship with Ali/Frank and Ashley/Bentley along with temporary detours to Emily/Arie. Yes, these situations differ in various ways, but there are too many “like” patterns for little ol’ me.

Ashley said this in voice-over so maybe we shouldn’t count it, but it was still stated on screen:

“I completely fell in love with Bentley last night. There’s something about him that is so sincere, I just know he’s my guy. If it was up to me, I would grab Bentley and take off to Salt Lake City. Honestly. I think I am leaving here with what I hope to leave with… a husband. Today marks the first day of my love story.”

Although it was spoken in episode #3 and not #9, that is still a pretty strong statement. AND she was still appearing eager to take him back in Hong Kong in episode #6, in addition to discussing him on screen in too many episodes to count.

Desiree mostly stated on screen that Brooks “could be” the one and told Harrison she was at the finish line with him, but she also said in episode #5 that Chris had “everything” she wanted in a husband… so Chris was never exactly chopped liver. She also told Becky in McMinnville on screen, not Janice in Utah (although she may have off screen), that she saw her son as the father of her children… and told bro Nathaniel after returning to LA that she saw Chris as a “good husband and a good father” but was “enjoying being in the moment” with Brooks, a line that hardly sounded long-term.

Even more revealing is that all three Bachelorettes predicted what would happen ahead of time… on screen. Coincidence? Or some storyboard at work?

Under the Hollywood sign, Des tells Brooks that she is willing to go through heartbreak because it means “that I’m not meant to be with that person”, which is precisely what Nate said the previous season and would repeat again twice (with a variation of the word order) when he visited her in LA later.

Ashley told Bentley at the comedy club: “If you did choose to leave, it would be harder than anything I ever went through last time I was here”.

Ali also foreshadowed some things with Frank under the Hollywood sign (her episode #2) as well, but more importantly were lines heard in Istanbul (episode #6). She told him directly “I think my relationship with you scares me” but later, with a definite glow in her face in a PI session “I guess I feel that Frank has the potential to break my heart, but I just have a feeling about him. I just feel there’s something really special that we have. Something I’ve never felt before.”  … apparently not even with Roberto by episode #6 if we believe what Ali is dishing out.

There are different ways of looking at this. The Bachelorettes may have said similar stuff with multiple guys and we only heard it with the “dumpers”. Yet it raises a question: why bring it up so early in the season if you have confidence that “he” may be “the one”?

On another note, I never take stock in everything these women say… especially in interviews after they break up with their pick. Ali said she might have chosen Frank despite earlier saying Roberto was always the one, but I think she was “sticking it to the ex” a bit there. Although so much has been made about Deanna and Graham, when you look back at actual scenes with the two, it is a bit of a let-down… appearing more hyped up in memory than reality. Yet her break up with Jesse was downright ugly, so the “legend” of Graham grew legs in every interview conducted afterward to the point that he became Cary Grant, Brad Pitt and Justin Bieber rolled up into one. We were all thankful Steve Stagliano got her to shut up.

In the actual break-up scenes, Des talks about giving her heart to Brooks directly TO Brooks, just as Ashley sobs that she can’t continue because she saw Bentley “at the end of this” directly TO Bentley. Bentley simply smirked, but Brooks had an emotional breakdown. Frank cried quite a bit too, but (unfortunately) we don’t have a lot of youtube footage to consult here. Two recaps I referenced stated that Ali asks Chris Harrison “Like why am I feeling right now that I hope Frank will come back?” after he tells her she has two really good guys left.

Ali was probably the one we saw the most tears on her face, although we can debate if those were actually Frank tears or tears of distress that maybe Roberto will bolt as well. Ashley cried a lot too, but we still needed Bentley to tell us on screen that there was “a lot of crying… and crying”. Some are questioning if Des really is with Brooks (since her face is covered a lot), although we see HIM beat red and moist. Obviously he didn’t enjoy the experience, but… hey… Des did tell him in another foreshadow moment weeks before that you kinda have to get through the hard stuff to get to where you need to be.

Grumpy in Snow White said wimmin’ “are full of wicked wiles”. Well… not necessarily true, BUT we must remember that Desiree is capable of some tomfoolery since she pulled on Sean that ex-boyfriend stunt… not to mention being “tested” herself on her first date by both Sean and Chris Harrison with the broken art piece. Harrison himself had yet to receive “payback” from her since she didn’t know HE was watching her on a camera screen along with Sean. For this reason alone, I didn’t believe anything coming out of her mouth in her sit-downs with HIM.

Two other things that need added here are the “sibling” angle and “therapy” angle.

Ali’s situation didn’t involve the former, but Des had Nate, who practically thinks his sister will marry in an instant the first guy she meets (and she had to reassure him that she will take Chris “day by day” and not settle), and Ashley had Chrystie, who accused her in Vomo (Fiji) for having too many “gut reactions” starting with “that guy who left and came back” and now JP. Obviously the editors took that into consideration by showing Des and Brooks dressing up like “we are on our honeymoon” and later have her fling herself to him, while Ashley fell in love with William Holman on “half a date” (they almost married for real in Las Vegas) then, after the comedy roast, moved onto Conquest #2 with Bentley Williams from Salt Lake City. Chrystie must have watched that season with her jaw dropped further to the ground than lil’ ol’ cynical Nate. No wonder she was on Team Cupcake by the end of the season (even though she may have been after Ash and JP came back to the states after filming anyway).

One cute little “dig” back in Ashley’s season that always tickled me: When Jeff (whom I suspect was a paid “mole” that season) removes his mask in episode #3 after telling her “true love starts from something on the inside and, yes, physical attraction is important but really longterm… it is all about what’s on the inside”, she comments that “he is a lot older than I thought he was”. Chrystie tells both Ashley and JP separately in her sitdowns with them that he is “older”, which makes her even more skeptical of the relationship.

It is still interesting to re-watch previous season scenes for additional insight… in this case, our beloved Nate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15-LkvfjW7k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAVTe-bf6tM

Somehow I feel that Chris’ EDIT was a correction to Nate’s feelings, particularly the way he discusses Desiree in PIs and voice-overs and his repeat of the line “I was a skeptic coming into this” which I don’t think was entirely true when you hear Becky on the hometown.

I now think each season has one or two Therapy Guys and Gals. (Maybe Tierra grabbing all of Sean’s attention counts as “therapy”?)

Arie on Emily’s season is THE classic example of a Therapy Guy, put on the show to get the lead over some obstacle before she can move on with her final one. Emily may have long gotten over Ricky, but production/editing team still needed the “closure” shown on screen since Brad already fussed his season that “her ex is at the forefront of her mind”. Soooo… we got this line from Arie in episode #1: “I know Emily’s ex fiancé also raced and he passed away on the way to a race. Being a race car driver can bring back some painful memories for Emily, so I am definitely nervous going into this. I know that it is a big risk, but I am willing to take that risk… and I hope she is too.”

We can view Brooks/Bentley/Frank and their Heartbreak Drama as part of The Therapy.

Ashley’s phobia of guys leaving her with “dot dot dot” must have begun sometime pre-show… and she needed to learn (on screen that is) the difference between the “gut attractions” that her sister accused her for and the slow-burn type of love that JP represented.

Frank represented “Hollywood Dreams” to Ali, which is why HE got a Hollywood sign date… but that automobile breakdown on the freeway before-hand… and the “omen” the fortune teller gave them in Istanbul… both indicated that Ali had to reevaluate what she really needed. Her basic theme with Roberto was “conquering over fears together”, like LA skylining, stage performances in the Lion King and feeding frisky skates in Tahiti.

The whole Brooks relationship was about “being in the moment”, “on Cloud 9” and “picturing the best dream you ever had and living it” rather than, as George suggests in McMinnville, seeing if you are “compatible”, sharing same health and domestic concerns. As he said, while working on Des’ back, “My first impression of Desiree is that she’s a good girl, but knowing that she’s been through a lot of ups and downs, this treatment promotes clarity. It kinda like refocuses you.”

Actually I think the best line all season came from Becky talking to Chris: “But you are also not completely in the real world. What’s going to happen when you jump into that?” After seeing the couple in the “real world” (for better or for worse), we generally forget much that happened in The Bubble that we sat through Monday nights anyway.

 

I love reading here! Great posts guys!

JBF, swooon!!!!. i second 2observe above,    

IDK why peeps keep forgetting that this is a nutso TV show that we are watching.
I am just glad Chres have found each other in this crazy process/env. Their love seems real and sincere (at least to me). More than that, they are willing to put focus, time and efforts to make their relationship work post-show, IRL. I still chuckle everytime i saw Chris with his funny, goofy expression, saying one liner here and there in the interviews : "this is reaaaal...", " this is happeniiiing"....LOL :bigsmile:

Yes Mura! I forgot about Chris saying that. I do believe he meant it. I posted on the other chris thread but will mention it here too. I watched the Krisily video/broadcast. There are four of them and it was very interesting. It is long, but basically they all agreed that Des was infatuated with Brooks, and once he left she could focus on Chris. They thought Chris was a standup guy and they have a real shot of making it because they are doing it right and left Hollywood! I also agreed with something else they brought up. They said that they believe most of her feelings during the breakup were intensified and that in the heat of the moment she really did not mean some of it. She just wanted to hurt Brooks for hurting her. They also said that ATFR Des and Brooks seemed over the whole thing and Des seemed more upset about seeing Brooks. Only one of them disagreed with that.