The Bachelor 18 Spoilers/Speculation - Media - Discussion

Sprite wrote:

Idlemess wrote:

rosesrREd wrote:

umngirl wrote:Maybe this makes me a horrible person, but I have zero sympathy for JuanPa and the treatment he's getting from TPTB, the media, and people watching the show. He signed up for the show and if he didn't realize how much power TPTB would have over his treatment then he's an idiot. You signed a contract and should have done your homework. No lead is immune to at least a little bit of flack. It's the nature of the beast. And to be honest, JuanPa brought much of this on himself with the changing his rules about his actions during the season, some of the comments he's made, and the horrible explanation of why he didn't think a gay lead would work. He did damage himself so I can't blame others for making it worse. You reap what you sow.

I expect him to get a little flack, because after all he is on a reality dating show.  However, my issue is Juan Pablo has gotten more flack for doing the same exact things as past Bachelor's.  Sean Lowe kissed more girls that JP did, but certainly wasn't labeled a player.  I have to ask why?

Good question, I would like to know why as well.

I don't know the answer to your question but I suspect there were several things in play. The fact that he made it very clear that he was a Christian and serious about the process may have been a large part of it. (He also didn't check out every girls rear as she was walking away.) He was a likeable guy and I think most people if not exactly believed him, at least gave him the benefit of the doubt. The fact that he made fun of himself, seemed easy to get along with and promoted the show more than anyone, served him in good stead with producers. I also think the fact that he was a Christian, made editing him negatively a tricky thing for producers. They could easily offend a large and vocal segment of the population. The fact that they saw that they could possibly have their first Bachelor success story may have added to it. I do think they really did and continue to, truly like him and I think that he was really a fan favourite from Emily's season, not a manufactured fan favourite that producers had to concoct like JPab. JPab proved himself more disposable from start to finish...particularly as he seems to have proved difficult to work with for them and the women on the show. JMO

You said this a million times better than I ever could.

I am different from most. I really liked Sean, love him and Cat. Was happy to find a love story by accident, since it was still a crap shoot, but they both got really, really lucky and I expect them to be married the rest of their lives.

I expected to not like JPG, but I really have. He and Sean are very different, but I like them for different reasons. I think growing up in South Florida and living in Texas for 11 years I understand the hispanic culture more, so maybe I am less annoyed than others.

I hate the way TPTB has thrown JPG under the bus, but then again, I hated the whole honeymoon suite and Sean lingerie shopping and Cat doing her boudoir shoot on the Sean Cat wedding special, so they all get crap thrown at them that they don't want.

JPG could have researched better and he did trust a group of people that he shouldn't have. But, I do think a lot of the crap they gave him was due to his not playing their game. Sean played their game better, heck keeping Tierra until right before HTDs and then really keeping AshLee helped. Sean let them have their drama queens. JPG just doesn't seem to care what they want.

I find them both to be good men in different ways.

I hated Ben, he was so disinterested and showed no respect to anyone except maybe Courtney, that I really couldn't stand him. Some loved Ben, so there you go, we are all different.

umngirl wrote:

rosesrREd wrote:

umngirl wrote:

rosesrREd wrote:

umngirl wrote:Maybe this makes me a horrible person, but I have zero sympathy for JuanPa and the treatment he's getting from TPTB, the media, and people watching the show. He signed up for the show and if he didn't realize how much power TPTB would have over his treatment then he's an idiot. You signed a contract and should have done your homework. No lead is immune to at least a little bit of flack. It's the nature of the beast. And to be honest, JuanPa brought much of this on himself with the changing his rules about his actions during the season, some of the comments he's made, and the horrible explanation of why he didn't think a gay lead would work. He did damage himself so I can't blame others for making it worse. You reap what you sow.

I expect him to get a little flack, because after all he is on a reality dating show.  However, my issue is Juan Pablo has gotten more flack for doing the same exact things as past Bachelor's.  Sean Lowe kissed more girls that JP did, but certainly wasn't labeled a player.  I have to ask why?

Maybe because JuanPa doesn't come off as sincere in looking for a wife or really having a relationship with any of them after the show. And it's not the amount of girls he kisses that bothers people, at least not the ones I know who watch. It's how it acts and his apparent lack of interest in really getting to know these girls besides making out with them and sleeping with a few. Plus, his rule changing about kissing and treatment of some of the girls is what turns people off. Not to mention his public comments about a gay lead took things up a whole nother level, and that's his own fault. And while I admire JuanPa for apparently not giving in to the pressure of proposing in the finale, TPTB aren't the kindest to those who go against their rules.

People think that because they don't understand his culture.  Everyone expects him to act like an American guy when courting women, and because he isn't doing it exactly how it has been done in the past, people assume he isn't serious about it.  Nobody says "well maybe this is how Juan Pablo does it."

And maybe some of it isn't culture and just JuanPa not taking this seriously. And I've been around quite a few people, several men, who grew up in Latin America and not a single one acts that way with women. JuanPa seems to enjoy playing up the Latin lover angle if you ask me.

I am talking about the public perception, not how Latino's are in real life. It seems that people have no tolerance for those who act or think differently than what they perceive to be right. I try not to judge someone and their intentions based on a highly edited reality show. However, the amount of flack he has gotten is unprecedented, and in my opinion, he has nothing to do with his intentions on the show.

stuckinsc wrote:I am different from most.  I really liked Sean, love him and Cat.  Was happy to find a love story by accident, since it was still a crap shoot, but they both got really, really lucky and I expect them to be married the rest of their lives.

I expected to not like JPG, but I really have.  He and Sean are very different, but I like them for different reasons.  I think growing up in South Florida and living in Texas for 11 years I understand the hispanic culture more, so maybe I am less annoyed than others.

I hate the way TPTB has thrown JPG under the bus, but then again, I hated the whole honeymoon suite and Sean lingerie shopping and Cat doing her boudoir shoot on the Sean Cat wedding special, so they all get crap thrown at them that they don't want.  

JPG could have researched better and he did trust a group of people that he shouldn't have.  But, I do think a lot of the crap they gave him was due to his not playing their game.  Sean played their game better, heck keeping Tierra until right before HTDs and then really keeping AshLee helped.  Sean let them have their drama queens.  JPG just doesn't seem to care what they want.

I find them both to be good men in different ways.

I hated Ben, he was so disinterested and showed no respect to anyone except maybe Courtney, that I really couldn't stand him.  Some loved Ben, so there you go, we are all different.

And didn't you love the "Honeymoon cam" as well? They pushed that whole "born again virgin" thing way to far, to the point of disturbing.

rosesrREd wrote:

umngirl wrote:

rosesrREd wrote:

umngirl wrote:

rosesrREd wrote:

umngirl wrote:Maybe this makes me a horrible person, but I have zero sympathy for JuanPa and the treatment he's getting from TPTB, the media, and people watching the show. He signed up for the show and if he didn't realize how much power TPTB would have over his treatment then he's an idiot. You signed a contract and should have done your homework. No lead is immune to at least a little bit of flack. It's the nature of the beast. And to be honest, JuanPa brought much of this on himself with the changing his rules about his actions during the season, some of the comments he's made, and the horrible explanation of why he didn't think a gay lead would work. He did damage himself so I can't blame others for making it worse. You reap what you sow.

I expect him to get a little flack, because after all he is on a reality dating show.  However, my issue is Juan Pablo has gotten more flack for doing the same exact things as past Bachelor's.  Sean Lowe kissed more girls that JP did, but certainly wasn't labeled a player.  I have to ask why?

Maybe because JuanPa doesn't come off as sincere in looking for a wife or really having a relationship with any of them after the show. And it's not the amount of girls he kisses that bothers people, at least not the ones I know who watch. It's how it acts and his apparent lack of interest in really getting to know these girls besides making out with them and sleeping with a few. Plus, his rule changing about kissing and treatment of some of the girls is what turns people off. Not to mention his public comments about a gay lead took things up a whole nother level, and that's his own fault. And while I admire JuanPa for apparently not giving in to the pressure of proposing in the finale, TPTB aren't the kindest to those who go against their rules.

People think that because they don't understand his culture.  Everyone expects him to act like an American guy when courting women, and because he isn't doing it exactly how it has been done in the past, people assume he isn't serious about it.  Nobody says "well maybe this is how Juan Pablo does it."

And maybe some of it isn't culture and just JuanPa not taking this seriously. And I've been around quite a few people, several men, who grew up in Latin America and not a single one acts that way with women. JuanPa seems to enjoy playing up the Latin lover angle if you ask me.

I am talking about the public perception, not how Latino's are in real life.  It seems that people have no tolerance for those who act or think differently than what they perceive to be right.  I try not to judge someone and their intentions based on a highly edited reality show.  However, the amount of flack he has gotten is unprecedented, and in my opinion, he has nothing to do with his intentions on the show.

And from those I know who watch the show, their displeasure with JuanPa has everything to do with his perceived lack of interest in finding a lasting relationship, his stupid comments on a touchy subject, and his actions on the show being ever changing to suit his mood as he pleases. They thought the same thing about Ben, Jake, and others in the past. It's not a JuanPa exclusive thing.

^^ I agree stuckinsc!

"I find them both to be good men in different ways."

I do think that too. The problem, in my opinion, is that JP is just simple not "lead" material.
TPTB should have known this and not just choose him because his hot Latino charm had all the middle aged ladies' panties in twist on Twitter. Let's be honest that's the sole reason he was chosen.   

They should have known that they can't build a successful and popular show without proper foundation.... and for that to happen they need somebody who is willing to play TPTB's game, yet is very relatable and has many redeemable qualities that make him seem to be a great catch. (Plus, you know.... Some one who is in complete command of the English language :hidingchair )
The fact that JP has very little to absolutely no experience dating white American girls doesn't really help his case.
I am also not sure whether he was genuinely open to the prospect of finding his wife on the show.

I think he is a great guy, (albeit one who suffers from the "foot-in-the-mouth syndrome" but he is definitely not among my favorite Bachelors.

I say kudos to JP for not being the machine's patsy. He wouldn't drink, he asked the girls not to drink (see latest CH interview), he wouldn't use the "L" word that the others have been pressured to use. He didn't allow the bubble to influence his feelings .. CH at the last sit down with him was clearly frustrated that JP wasn't further along than liking the girls.

Kudos to JP, he didn't succumb to their pressure ... we don't have the normal "I'm falling for two women" or "I love two women" bs.

The machine is pissed they couldn't break him during filming, so they are doing everything the can to break him now.

It's ridiculous to dislike him because he isn't feeling it for any of the women. Brad went through hell for the same thing during his first season; and yet, look how well it worked out for him when he did fall for Emily. JP doesn't want himself or anyone else to force their feelings under these circumstances. Good on him.

Bet2Win wrote:I say kudos to JP for not being the machine's patsy.  He wouldn't drink, he asked the girls not to drink (see latest CH interview), he wouldn't use the "L" word that the others have been pressured to use.  He didn't allow the bubble to influence his feelings  .. CH at the last sit down with him was clearly frustrated that JP wasn't further along than liking the girls.  

Kudos to JP, he didn't succumb to their pressure  ... we don't have the normal "I'm falling for two women" or "I love two women" bs.  

The machine is pissed they couldn't break him during filming, so they are doing everything the can to break him now.  

It's ridiculous to dislike him because he isn't feeling it for any of the women.  Brad went through hell for the same thing during his first season; and yet, look how well it worked out for him when he did fall for Emily.    JP doesn't want himself or anyone else to force their feelings under these circumstances.  Good on him.

All that you have written is why this conversation is on going at this time. Jason Mesnick said it in his last podcast that the producers used to threaten to give him a bad edit whenever he refused to do what they wanted. Of course JP is not perfect, but I strongly believe that the JP we are seeing on our TV's, the one most people have come to dislike, is a "character," a victim of clever and manipulative editing.

Funny, I didn't like Jason at all. I didn't watch his season until the F3 because I really didn't like him on DeAnna's season.

I still think he got very lucky that Molly gave him another chance. And I hated how he was so open to proposing when he had a son.

But maybe I am different. I actually liked when the question was will he propose or not? The fake engagements as an agreement to date are something I can do without.

Of course, I liked Brad 1.0 when it happened. I thought it was great for someone to honest and not fake that the whole thing always worked. I prefered his end to Travis the doctor or the little prince.

julychild wrote:

Bet2Win wrote:I say kudos to JP for not being the machine's patsy.  He wouldn't drink, he asked the girls not to drink (see latest CH interview), he wouldn't use the "L" word that the others have been pressured to use.  He didn't allow the bubble to influence his feelings  .. CH at the last sit down with him was clearly frustrated that JP wasn't further along than liking the girls.  

Kudos to JP, he didn't succumb to their pressure  ... we don't have the normal "I'm falling for two women" or "I love two women" bs.  

The machine is pissed they couldn't break him during filming, so they are doing everything the can to break him now.  

It's ridiculous to dislike him because he isn't feeling it for any of the women.  Brad went through hell for the same thing during his first season; and yet, look how well it worked out for him when he did fall for Emily.    JP doesn't want himself or anyone else to force their feelings under these circumstances.  Good on him.

All that you have written is why this conversation is on going at this time. Jason Mesnick said it in his last podcast that the producers used to threaten to give him a bad edit whenever he refused to do what they wanted. Of course JP is not perfect, but I strongly believe that the JP we are seeing on our TV's, the one most people have come to dislike, is a "character," a victim of clever and manipulative editing.

Exactly.
Sean was a puppet for TPTB so he was lucky to be in their good graces and not torn apart like Juan Pablo...
Anyway, it's not because you don't like a lead that he deserves to be lynched.
I can understand that not everybody likes him and/or shares his opinions, but still, he shouldn't be demonized like that.
I like his honesty ; but where I come from we are not used to the politically correct so often used here. I guess that's one of the reasons why people don't like him. He is too honest for some.
But as he said, he prefers being honest and not appreciated. Good for him !
He has his opinions, and every right to have them and express them. Too bad for those who don't share them.

Someone really needs to explain to me how JuanPa is being treated so badly. I see nothing that indicates he's getting treated worse than the average lead. Doesn't feel any different than Ben or Jake for example. Now yes, he did get a whole LOT of flack and haters for the gay lead comments, and rightfully so IMO. That wasn't something on the show though, just his own stupidity. His overall somewhat negative edit and CH/TPTB throwing him under the bus is par for the course.

[quote="Sprite"]

umngirl wrote:Maybe this makes me a horrible person, but I have zero sympathy for JuanPa and the treatment he's getting from TPTB, the media, and people watching the show. He signed up for the show and if he didn't realize how much power TPTB would have over his treatment then he's an idiot. You signed a contract and should have done your homework. No lead is immune to at least a little bit of flack. It's the nature of the beast. And to be honest, JuanPa brought much of this on himself with the changing his rules about his actions during the season, some of the comments he's made, and the horrible explanation of why he didn't think a gay lead would work. He did damage himself so I can't blame others for making it worse. You reap what you sow.

While I may not feel quite as strongly as you seem to, I do agree that he has nobody to blame but himself if he never even bothered watching the Bachelorette season he was on or bothered to find more about the show. That is what I meant about people getting greedy. They just see the grand prize (whatever that may be), and never think about what it may cost to get there. And you would think his lawyer or somebody would have clued him in, but, he probably thought they loved him and they were buddies and they wouldn't do that to him. I wonder how long it took before he clued in? Andi should take note...[/quote]

He never took the time to check out things deeply because of all the smooching ABC did to get him to sign on. That is why he wrote that eye opener in his tweet. And although, I was never a fan of JP, I have to say I do agree with every word he said! ABC can fool some people some of the time, but they can't fool all of the people all of the time. We can read it like a book!!

So lil Ms. Fiesty has it coming to her.....KARMA Baby!