Episode 7 - 7/08 - Bachelorette 9 - Discussion - Spoilers

I just don't see it being anyone but Brooks. And if it isn't, its Chris as default. And even Chris would know, especially by now, that he was the default.

I finally saw this week's episode and was taken aback at how she reacted when CH asked her about Brooks. She was in tears with happiness. She was scared she wouldn't find what she's found with Brooks. All the other guys sounded like after thoughts.

BachfanNY wrote:I just don't see it being anyone but Brooks. And if it isn't, its Chris as default. And even Chris would know, especially by now, that he was the default.

I finally saw this week's episode and was taken aback at how she reacted when CH asked her about Brooks. She was in tears with happiness. She was scared she wouldn't find what she's found with Brooks. All the other guys sounded like after thoughts.

  All around.

relaxing wrote:

canyonvue wrote:

atem wrote:

ironcat wrote:

Beeleever wrote:What I also find interesting is this:

Chris, Drew and Zak are getting a lot of negative feedback for saying they are in love or falling in love with Des before the HTD's.

Where is the same criticism of Des for saying she is in love with Brooks before the HTD? She has had 2 1:1 dates with him and little snippets during a few more group dates.

I'm not passing judgement or saying one is right and one is wrong. Just wondering about the double standard.

I think there's a difference between the lead's situation and the suitors', since the lead has the power to choose, while the suitor is "competing" for "the only hamburger in the store".  Therefore, it's never really clear how much a declaration of love from the suitor is influenced by the desire to "win" (and with the brainwashing, sometimes the suitors themselves aren't even aware how much is "love" and how much is wanting to be the winner).

That said, the truth is at this point, none of them have really fallen in "deep love".  Even the couples who have ultimately made it have all admitted that the really deep feelings for each other didn't happen until after the show was over, and once they are in THAT place, they are able to realize/differentiate that what they felt on the show was "less than", really no more than infatuation and the start of love.  But whatever you call what Des is feeling for Brooks at this point in filming, I think she is too "into him", and prefers him too much over the other guys (all of whom she has seen enough of for comparison's sake) to make an "about face" now and try to make it work with someone else, should he leave and not come back.

Maybe, Brooks' 'zero guys' thing does happen until Brooks comes back?  Because, I agree it doesn't make sense for her to be so set on Brooks to the point she takes the risk of taking him to Final 3 knowing he could still break her heart and then turn around and pick someone else.  

Then again, I never get this show most of the time.

I've always thought it could go down to Zero for a moment. After all, why did they leave that in there? And, to me, it makes no sense for her to take 2 guys to F2 when her heart is elsewhere.

I think that first spoiler could've been wrong. It is Chris and Drew who are gone and then Brooks becomes F1. Now that makes sense; because her being able to change her heart just like that doesn't.

I'm really leaning towards this as my guess.  At F2 of Drew and Chris maybe Drew goes or is let go early.  Chris is let go at FRC.  Brooks and Des somehow reconcile afterwards maybe at FRC, may completely after it's done.  I just hope we get to see them spend a bit of time together, not just a grand reuniting and cut to credits,  especially if there is no FD (which I'm still hoping there is before the meltdown, but not counting on it).

ETA this would fit the screen caps - of course there are none of  Brooks return because that would rui n the suspense.

  Totally.

I just can't see her heart changing like that. Not if it was true. Now THAT doesn't make sense.

They reconcile in Antigua, OR maybe at his home (which I actually think would be romantic--she picking no one and going to get him). It would fit the SCs, would give Drew and Chris their "space" as the default F2 AND make room for Brooks. It would fit the Zero comment Brooks made and all the twists and turns.

It'd also fit her statement about what she wants and needs.

I just can't see her heart changing like that. Not if it was true. Now THAT doesn't make sense.

They reconcile in Antigua, OR maybe at his home (which I actually think would be romantic--she picking no one and going to get him). It would fit the SCs, would give Drew and Chris their "space" as the default F2 AND make room for Brooks. It would fit the Zero comment Brooks made and all the twists and turns.

It'd also fit her statement about what she wants and needs.

I think this wants-needs thing has been blown out of proportion. The question to her in the interview was, what have you learned about yourself by being the Bachelorette. Her reply was something like, sometimes in life, blah, blah, blah. It could be as simple as she thought she wanted to travel the world but all she needs is to cuddle by the fireplace with her man each night. Or, she thought she wanted someone artistic who shares her love of poetry, but found that what she needs is someone that will challenge her and broaden her horizons.

Her reply didn't come close to saying that this influenced the outcome or her decision making process. The leads are heavily coached on how to give vague answers in interviews. This sounds like an answer she was coached to give for this question, which I would think would be a fairly common question in interviews. JMO

ironcat wrote:

Beeleever wrote:What I also find interesting is this:

Chris, Drew and Zak are getting a lot of negative feedback for saying they are in love or falling in love with Des before the HTD's.

Where is the same criticism of Des for saying she is in love with Brooks before the HTD? She has had 2 1:1 dates with him and little snippets during a few more group dates.

I'm not passing judgement or saying one is right and one is wrong. Just wondering about the double standard.

I think there's a difference between the lead's situation and the suitors', since the lead has the power to choose, while the suitor is "competing" for "the only hamburger in the store".  Therefore, it's never really clear how much a declaration of love from the suitor is influenced by the desire to "win" (and with the brainwashing, sometimes the suitors themselves aren't even aware how much is "love" and how much is wanting to be the winner).

That said, the truth is at this point, none of them have really fallen in "deep love".  Even the couples who have ultimately made it have all admitted that the really deep feelings for each other didn't happen until after the show was over, and once they are in THAT place, they are able to realize/differentiate that what they felt on the show was "less than", really no more than infatuation and the start of love.  But whatever you call what Des is feeling for Brooks at this point in filming, I think she is too "into him", and prefers him too much over the other guys (all of whom she has seen enough of for comparison's sake) to make an "about face" now and try to make it work with someone else, should he leave and not come back.

While I was watching that scene with Zak and Chris discussing whether or not Michael was going to get a hometown date after spending time with Des on his 1-on 1 , what I took away from that was two guys who completely understood the premise of the show - that being that if you had not "laid it all out there" by that point into the "journey", then you would be leaving the show knowing that you had not done or said enough for Des to keep you.  And you could possibly have regrets for not having done so.

So, I am going to be the "devil's advocate" here for Drew, Chris and Zak.  I think that these three guys are all well educated, intelligent and well-rounded men who all possess something in common.  They all appear to be at a place in their lives where they know exactly what they are looking for in a wife.  Well, I am not sure that Drew is quite there yet (knowing exactly what he is looking for), but I do think that Zak and Chris were "all in" from the very beginning and chose to use their time with Des wisely and that both Zak and Chris decided to reveal themselves earlier in the process than perhaps Drew and maybe Brooks did.  All we have to go on is the edit of each of these guys, so that is all that I am going by.

But, I do think that it is sort of unfair to label Zak, Chris and Drew as being the only one(s) who are drinking the kool aid right now, because I think that all four of these guys probably possess a very analytical mind and were processing things as they advanced each week.  Also, we have not been shown very much of the conversations that Des had with these four men, so we do not know how much those conversations may have influenced them to "act" sooner than later.  We need to remember that Des left feeling like she had held back too much with Sean and regretted it later, so did she express those feelings to all four of these guys as well?

I do think that all of the F4 guys probably did get caught up in the Bachelor Bubble - to the extent that none of them knew exactly how Des was feeling about the other three - except perhaps those who did see the connection that Des was forming with Brooks - but they were doing what most of the prior F4s before them had done, and that was to concentrate solely on their own "relationship" with Des and were for the most part feeling that their connection with Des was stronger than what the others had.  Now, that little gem mostly likely came from their handlers - to encourage them to perhaps jump the gun and reveal just how hard that they had fallen for Des, prior to her even meeting their families.

And, I think that Zak, Chris and Drew all did feel like they are ready to settle down and start a family with Des, and they all seem to be taking the process seriously, so that also most likely helped influence them to move a little faster than others.

I think Zak Chris Drew and Desi, are all in what we refer to the Bach Bubble... and all these declarations of love are due it. Are they all attracted to the one they think they're in love with? I'm sure they are, but how can it be real love when at this point it's pretty much unreciprocated and under the circumstances, they hardly know each other. IMO, Brooks is the only one that's thinking "normally" and logically. Is it because he's just not that interested, or if he's just aware of how delusional some can get and are totally blindsided at the end by being sent home, I don't know. Last weeks editing is leading us to believe that Des is in love with Brooks, but Brooks isn't sure. Did it go down the way editing said it did, or was it spliced and diced and they added some post show VO's like they have in the past to help out with a storyline after the fact?? Either way, Brooks is going to be lost to Desi for a time period during filming, and it could be as simple as him thinking that one of the other guys is better for her in the long run and then he changes his mind and returns. In the back of my mind I keep thinking that Des's brother is going to have something to do with Brooks leaving for awhile, thinking that he's doing the right thing for Des.

northernviewer wrote:I think Zak Chris Drew and Desi, are all in what we refer to the Bach Bubble... and all these declarations of love are due it.  Are they all attracted to the one they think they're in love with? I'm sure they are, but how can it be real love when at this point it's pretty much unreciprocated and under the circumstances, they hardly know each other.  IMO, Brooks is the only one that's thinking "normally" and logically.  Is it because he's just not that interested, or if he's just aware of how delusional some can get and are totally blindsided at the end by being sent home, I don't know.   Last weeks editing is leading us to believe that Des is in love with Brooks, but Brooks isn't sure.  Did it go down the way editing said it did, or was it spliced and diced and they added some post show VO's like they have in the past to help out with a storyline after the fact??    Either way, Brooks is going to be lost to Desi for a time period during filming, and it could be as simple as him thinking that one of the other guys is better for her in the long run and then he changes his mind and returns.   In the back of my mind I keep thinking that Des's brother is going to have something to do with Brooks leaving for awhile, thinking that he's doing the right thing for Des.  

I don't know. Seems like Desiree and Brooks are just trying to protect themselves from getting hurt. Both say they are willing to do it, but they sure don't act like it when they hesitate really telling each other how they feel.

northernviewer wrote:I think Zak Chris Drew and Desi, are all in what we refer to the Bach Bubble... and all these declarations of love are due it.  Are they all attracted to the one they think they're in love with? I'm sure they are, but how can it be real love when at this point it's pretty much unreciprocated and under the circumstances, they hardly know each other.  IMO, Brooks is the only one that's thinking "normally" and logically.  Is it because he's just not that interested, or if he's just aware of how delusional some can get and are totally blindsided at the end by being sent home, I don't know.   Last weeks editing is leading us to believe that Des is in love with Brooks, but Brooks isn't sure.  Did it go down the way editing said it did, or was it spliced and diced and they added some post show VO's like they have in the past to help out with a storyline after the fact??    Either way, Brooks is going to be lost to Desi for a time period during filming, and it could be as simple as him thinking that one of the other guys is better for her in the long run and then he changes his mind and returns.   In the back of my mind I keep thinking that Des's brother is going to have something to do with Brooks leaving for awhile, thinking that he's doing the right thing for Des.  

I agree with you that Zak, Drew, Chris AND Des do appear to be caught up in the Bach Bubble - which in turn could have caused those three guys to prematurely declare their love for Des, whether the ILY was directly said to her or was said to a camera during a PI.  Like you said, so far Des has chosen her words carefully and in no way has she reciprocated by revealing the depth (or lack of) her feelings for them.

However, Des certainly has been seen kissing those guys a lot, so for me it almost seems like Zak and Chris (a perhaps Drew too) interpreted Des kissing them and displaying physical affection toward them as a sign that they had the "best connection" with her, as compared to the other guys.  I especially see this as being true for Chris, since he basically said the exact same thing about Des in some of his PIs.

That Bach Bubble must be hard to resist under those circumstances!!!  And it also must be hard for them to watch these episodes, now that they are so far removed from that setting and can see (per the edit) what we are seeing.

Longhornfan wrote:

northernviewer wrote:I think Zak Chris Drew and Desi, are all in what we refer to the Bach Bubble... and all these declarations of love are due it.  Are they all attracted to the one they think they're in love with? I'm sure they are, but how can it be real love when at this point it's pretty much unreciprocated and under the circumstances, they hardly know each other.  IMO, Brooks is the only one that's thinking "normally" and logically.  Is it because he's just not that interested, or if he's just aware of how delusional some can get and are totally blindsided at the end by being sent home, I don't know.   Last weeks editing is leading us to believe that Des is in love with Brooks, but Brooks isn't sure.  Did it go down the way editing said it did, or was it spliced and diced and they added some post show VO's like they have in the past to help out with a storyline after the fact??    Either way, Brooks is going to be lost to Desi for a time period during filming, and it could be as simple as him thinking that one of the other guys is better for her in the long run and then he changes his mind and returns.   In the back of my mind I keep thinking that Des's brother is going to have something to do with Brooks leaving for awhile, thinking that he's doing the right thing for Des.  

I agree with you that Zak, Drew, Chris AND Des do appear to be caught up in the Bach Bubble - which in turn could have caused those three guys to prematurely declare their love for Des, whether the ILY was directly said to her or was said to a camera during a PI.  Like you said, so far Des has chosen her words carefully and in no way has she reciprocated by revealing the depth (or lack of) her feelings for them.

However, Des certainly has been seen kissing those guys a lot, so for me it almost seems like Zak and Chris (a perhaps Drew too) interpreted Des kissing them and displaying physical affection toward them as a sign that they had the "best connection" with her, as compared to the other guys.  I especially see this as being true for Chris, since he basically said the exact same thing about Des in some of his PIs.

That Bach Bubble must be hard to resist under those circumstances!!!  And it also must be hard for them to watch these episodes, now that they are so far removed from that setting and can see (per the edit) what we are seeing.

It may have been a combination of a couple things. They may have thought they needed to tell her how they each felt since they all recognized her interest in Brooks....AND...the producers encouraging them, telling them Brooks was telling her how he felt, in the lead, etc.

moonchild wrote:
I just can't see her heart changing like that. Not if it was true. Now THAT doesn't make sense.

They reconcile in Antigua, OR maybe at his home (which I actually think would be romantic--she picking no one and going to get him). It would fit the SCs, would give Drew and Chris their "space" as the default F2 AND make room for Brooks. It would fit the Zero comment Brooks made and all the twists and turns.

It'd also fit her statement about what she wants and needs.

I think this wants-needs thing has been blown out of proportion.  The question to her in the interview was, what have you learned about yourself by being the Bachelorette.  Her reply was something like, sometimes in life, blah, blah, blah.  It could be as simple as she thought she wanted to travel the world but all she needs is to cuddle by the fireplace with her man each night.  Or, she thought she wanted someone artistic who shares her love of poetry, but found that what she needs is someone that will challenge her and broaden her horizons.

Her reply didn't come close to saying that this influenced the outcome or her decision making process.  The leads are heavily coached on how to give vague answers in interviews.  This sounds like an answer she was coached to give for this question, which I would think would be a fairly common question in interviews.  JMO

Fantastic assessment! It's worth a thousand SC's

Longhornfan wrote:

northernviewer wrote:I think Zak Chris Drew and Desi, are all in what we refer to the Bach Bubble... and all these declarations of love are due it.  Are they all attracted to the one they think they're in love with? I'm sure they are, but how can it be real love when at this point it's pretty much unreciprocated and under the circumstances, they hardly know each other.  IMO, Brooks is the only one that's thinking "normally" and logically.  Is it because he's just not that interested, or if he's just aware of how delusional some can get and are totally blindsided at the end by being sent home, I don't know.   Last weeks editing is leading us to believe that Des is in love with Brooks, but Brooks isn't sure.  Did it go down the way editing said it did, or was it spliced and diced and they added some post show VO's like they have in the past to help out with a storyline after the fact??    Either way, Brooks is going to be lost to Desi for a time period during filming, and it could be as simple as him thinking that one of the other guys is better for her in the long run and then he changes his mind and returns.   In the back of my mind I keep thinking that Des's brother is going to have something to do with Brooks leaving for awhile, thinking that he's doing the right thing for Des.  

I agree with you that Zak, Drew, Chris AND Des do appear to be caught up in the Bach Bubble - which in turn could have caused those three guys to prematurely declare their love for Des, whether the ILY was directly said to her or was said to a camera during a PI.  Like you said, so far Des has chosen her words carefully and in no way has she reciprocated by revealing the depth (or lack of) her feelings for them.

However, Des certainly has been seen kissing those guys a lot, so for me it almost seems like Zak and Chris (a perhaps Drew too) interpreted Des kissing them and displaying physical affection toward them as a sign that they had the "best connection" with her, as compared to the other guys.  I especially see this as being true for Chris, since he basically said the exact same thing about Des in some of his PIs.

That Bach Bubble must be hard to resist under those circumstances!!!  And it also must be hard for them to watch these episodes, now that they are so far removed from that setting and can see (per the edit) what we are seeing.

When I talk about the Bach Bubble, I don't intend it to be said in a degrading way, or to insult the lead or contestants. I can see it happen, and I'd probably fall under it's spell too. Living under those circumstances would be difficult and I think you'd have to experience it to know what they go through, or why they feel the way they do. I think any "I love you" should be taken with a grain of salt and not held against them in the real world  

northernviewer wrote:

Longhornfan wrote:

northernviewer wrote:I think Zak Chris Drew and Desi, are all in what we refer to the Bach Bubble... and all these declarations of love are due it.  Are they all attracted to the one they think they're in love with? I'm sure they are, but how can it be real love when at this point it's pretty much unreciprocated and under the circumstances, they hardly know each other.  IMO, Brooks is the only one that's thinking "normally" and logically.  Is it because he's just not that interested, or if he's just aware of how delusional some can get and are totally blindsided at the end by being sent home, I don't know.   Last weeks editing is leading us to believe that Des is in love with Brooks, but Brooks isn't sure.  Did it go down the way editing said it did, or was it spliced and diced and they added some post show VO's like they have in the past to help out with a storyline after the fact??    Either way, Brooks is going to be lost to Desi for a time period during filming, and it could be as simple as him thinking that one of the other guys is better for her in the long run and then he changes his mind and returns.   In the back of my mind I keep thinking that Des's brother is going to have something to do with Brooks leaving for awhile, thinking that he's doing the right thing for Des.  

I agree with you that Zak, Drew, Chris AND Des do appear to be caught up in the Bach Bubble - which in turn could have caused those three guys to prematurely declare their love for Des, whether the ILY was directly said to her or was said to a camera during a PI.  Like you said, so far Des has chosen her words carefully and in no way has she reciprocated by revealing the depth (or lack of) her feelings for them.

However, Des certainly has been seen kissing those guys a lot, so for me it almost seems like Zak and Chris (a perhaps Drew too) interpreted Des kissing them and displaying physical affection toward them as a sign that they had the "best connection" with her, as compared to the other guys.  I especially see this as being true for Chris, since he basically said the exact same thing about Des in some of his PIs.

That Bach Bubble must be hard to resist under those circumstances!!!  And it also must be hard for them to watch these episodes, now that they are so far removed from that setting and can see (per the edit) what we are seeing.

When I talk about the Bach Bubble, I don't intend it to be said in a degrading way, or to insult the lead or contestants.  I can see it happen, and I'd probably fall under it's spell too.  Living under those circumstances would be difficult and I think you'd have to experience it to know what they go through, or why they feel the way they do.  I think any "I love you" should be taken with a grain of salt and not held against them in the real world  

I think the difference with the Bach Bubble and a more real experience is that we see Chris look into the camera and tell us that he sees the connection that Des has with Brooks but he and Des have a "unique", strong connection. And he knows their connection is much stronger than she has with the other guys. On the other hand, we have Brooks saying, we had a great first date, but I haven't been able to see her much since then and I see she has connections with these other guys, so I really don't know how to judge things. And, I'm certainly not jumping in feet first without her meeting my family to see how she would fit into my life. He has never lost sight that there are other guys there and questions where he fits into the pecking order. He might have been questioning if he wanted a HTD and putting his family through that if he didn't feel that it was something real and had the possibility of lasting. The others have already thrown caution to the wind and are all in, blinded by the bubble and questioning nothing. JP was really good about recognizing the strong connection that he had with Ashley but not losing sight of the fact that there were other guys there.

You could definitely see the difference with Brooks from one date to the other. The first date he was all smiley and carefree and just enjoyed the moment and had fun. But then he gets to watch the other guys go on really great dates with her and come back and talk about how great it was and how they feel that they have a really strong connection while he sits back and gets very little time with her. The second date he was very reserved (pensive, as he said). It was only after she told him that she was starting to run that he loosened up and we see him laughing and having a good time again while watching the fireworks (or making them, according to Des). I love the SC from the preview to next week where they are walking in to meet his family. They both are laughing and having a good time. The Brooks and Des that I love together.