Re: The Bachelor: Women Tell All - 3/04 - Discussion Thread

[moonchild]

Why do you feel that AshLee felt "completely deceived" by Sean? Do you think he said things to her (ILY, perhaps) that we just didn't see? Hope not.

There was an interview (posted today? I can't remember where) in which Ashlee said Sean had told her (presumably during their alone time) that she had no reason to worry. I think that might be it.

AshLee in an ITM interview after the rose ceremony where Lesley was let go, said, " This rose to me tells me I CAN trust. I can't describe the overwhelming love that I have for him. This is my husband. And, love DOES conquer all.

Then on her HTD while sitting out in a field in another ITM, she says, " I stepped out of my comfort zone and I trust this man and he has told me to trust him, that he is going to be the man to protect my heart.

Then we are given a shot of Sean telling AshLee, " You should feel pretty confident in what we have."

I know that had to be what he was feeling at the time and things changed for him. But at the same time, I can see why she feels betrayed and he continued to reassure her on their FD.

I think also that AshLee got the first rose at the F4 rose ceremony, so that probably gave her reassurance/confidence going into the fantasy dates episode.

For the most part, AshLee was leading herself on, IMO. Sean was just along for her ride.

But, I rewatched the FD episode last night. In the FS, Sean says to AshLee "I felt confident, even way back then, that this [relationship] was going to work out." IMO that's above and beyond what he needed to say to AshLee and crosses the bounds into "leading her on". I'm sure there was more said off-camera that she could point out.

If SAsh's was the 1st FD/FS filmed, and if it's true that Sean was seriously considering letting go Catherine at HTD/F4, then in the moment Sean may have genuinely considered AshLee to be his F1 during their FD/FS date, or perhaps his fallback F1 if his upcoming FD/FS date with Catherine wasn't going to work out. And once he decided to take Catherine along to the FRC, he probably decided to spare AshLee an FRC dumping by dumping her at F3. So, in a way, AshLee might actually have been Sean's F2 in his heart, since he obviously didn't give Lindsay that same care and consideration (assuming he was certain that Cat was his F1 by then, per his convo with Chris H).

My 2 cents.

I just want to point out that the highlighted part could work both ways. The problem with a show like this is that there is so much footage and we only get to see a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of it...the parts that only fit with the story the producers want to show us. There could just as well be things that were said that another person would have understood to mean that feelings had changed, you are not the one. They want us to think that Sean broke her heart and it would be hard to do that if they showed him hinting that she is not the one.

In this circumstance several things came into play...Sean's very sincerity and attempts to remain open to all the ladies, his genuine compassion, plus his awkwardness when trying to let someone down while maintaining the premise of the show; producers desire for drama; and AshLee's focus on someone healing her blinded her to the regular signals that many would read as caution, go slow. She misinterpreted what Sean wanted...her no fun approach, and she paid no attention to his body language during that last date...his hands down when kissing her on that beach... a definate no no. Despite this, I'm still not sure that she didn't in some part of her brain suspect what was to come. It is hard to tell because of editing, but, to me she already had that icy cold stare before he even started handing out the roses, indicating that she suspected something was up.

Re: Bolded I think I would be thinking why is he so tormented......this should be a no brainer if he meant what he said, unless of course he was saying the same things to the others. Also, if the ladies don't know that the producers choose the order that the roses are handed out, not Sean, she might have been thinking that since Lindsay got the first rose, she might have taken over the #1 spot. We don't know what was said in the FS and we hadn't seen her again since their time together there, so he might have been dropping little hints to her that he had a change in feelings, thinking it might make it easier on her. I totally agree, she was so into the idea of Sean and marriage that she missed the changes in his body language which were very apparent to us.

This is just such a different show than what we usually have. First of all a Bachelor that actually wants to find the love of his life and did give everyone a chance. I think that Sean, throughout this journey, did change his way of thinking. It appeared that he came into it with a checklist that he was using to come to his final decision. And the frontrunners seemed to meet his checklist. He appeared to be interested in Catherine from the very first night, but he thought at first that she didn't have any romantic feelings towards him. Once they got past that hurdle, then he began to evaluate their lifestyles and how well their thoughts for the future meshed. The HTD was crucial for this. I think he knew he was falling for her after HT's, but he still had questions about whether they were in the same place in their lives at the same time. I think there was no way she was on the chopping block at HT's. He might not have known that she was the ONE for him for the rest of his life, but he wasn't ready to let her go without finding out. The FD was critical because he found out that they had much more in common than he had previously thought and found out that she was ready for commitment. His body language towards the frontrunners started to change in St. Croix. About St Croix, ChrisH said that the ones he still had doubts about were the the ones that had 1-1 dates. That means that even at that time, he had doubts about AshLee. On the group date, Lindsay and Catherine seemed to be jealous that Sean focused most of his attention on Des, but I think he was having doubts about her as well, and wanted to spend more time with her for that reason.

At the end of the day, I think that beyond physical attraction, it came down to someone that is adventurous, that will challenge him. Someone that he feels comfortable with, no matter what the situation. That allows him to be himself and brings out the inner nerd in him. And he discovered that he didn't have to have his checklist met (as in be a female version of him) but it was OK to be with someone that complements his personality and life. If things had not worked out with Catherine, I don't think he would have proposed to anyone.

[Catdwoman50]

Like button moonchild!

[Love_Me]

Leslie A. Hughes ‏@leslieahughes

Beauties...!!! #bachelorbabes :)) another reunion please @sarahherron pic.twitter.com/8LHsXCOBCD

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[Sprite]

Why do you feel that AshLee felt "completely deceived" by Sean? Do you think he said things to her (ILY, perhaps) that we just didn't see? Hope not.

There was an interview (posted today? I can't remember where) in which Ashlee said Sean had told her (presumably during their alone time) that she had no reason to worry. I think that might be it.

AshLee in an ITM interview after the rose ceremony where Lesley was let go, said, " This rose to me tells me I CAN trust. I can't describe the overwhelming love that I have for him. This is my husband. And, love DOES conquer all.

Then on her HTD while sitting out in a field in another ITM, she says, " I stepped out of my comfort zone and I trust this man and he has told me to trust him, that he is going to be the man to protect my heart.

Then we are given a shot of Sean telling AshLee, " You should feel pretty confident in what we have."

I know that had to be what he was feeling at the time and things changed for him. But at the same time, I can see why she feels betrayed and he continued to reassure her on their FD.

I think also that AshLee got the first rose at the F4 rose ceremony, so that probably gave her reassurance/confidence going into the fantasy dates episode.

For the most part, AshLee was leading herself on, IMO. Sean was just along for her ride.

But, I rewatched the FD episode last night. In the FS, Sean says to AshLee "I felt confident, even way back then, that this [relationship] was going to work out." IMO that's above and beyond what he needed to say to AshLee and crosses the bounds into "leading her on". I'm sure there was more said off-camera that she could point out.

If SAsh's was the 1st FD/FS filmed, and if it's true that Sean was seriously considering letting go Catherine at HTD/F4, then in the moment Sean may have genuinely considered AshLee to be his F1 during their FD/FS date, or perhaps his fallback F1 if his upcoming FD/FS date with Catherine wasn't going to work out. And once he decided to take Catherine along to the FRC, he probably decided to spare AshLee an FRC dumping by dumping her at F3. So, in a way, AshLee might actually have been Sean's F2 in his heart, since he obviously didn't give Lindsay that same care and consideration (assuming he was certain that Cat was his F1 by then, per his convo with Chris H).

My 2 cents.

I just want to point out that the highlighted part could work both ways. The problem with a show like this is that there is so much footage and we only get to see a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of it...the parts that only fit with the story the producers want to show us. There could just as well be things that were said that another person would have understood to mean that feelings had changed, you are not the one. They want us to think that Sean broke her heart and it would be hard to do that if they showed him hinting that she is not the one.

In this circumstance several things came into play...Sean's very sincerity and attempts to remain open to all the ladies, his genuine compassion, plus his awkwardness when trying to let someone down while maintaining the premise of the show; producers desire for drama; and AshLee's focus on someone healing her blinded her to the regular signals that many would read as caution, go slow. She misinterpreted what Sean wanted...her no fun approach, and she paid no attention to his body language during that last date...his hands down when kissing her on that beach... a definate no no. Despite this, I'm still not sure that she didn't in some part of her brain suspect what was to come. It is hard to tell because of editing, but, to me she already had that icy cold stare before he even started handing out the roses, indicating that she suspected something was up.

Re: Bolded I think I would be thinking why is he so tormented......this should be a no brainer if he meant what he said, unless of course he was saying the same things to the others. Also, if the ladies don't know that the producers choose the order that the roses are handed out, not Sean, she might have been thinking that since Lindsay got the first rose, she might have taken over the #1 spot. We don't know what was said in the FS and we hadn't seen her again since their time together there, so he might have been dropping little hints to her that he had a change in feelings, thinking it might make it easier on her. I totally agree, she was so into the idea of Sean and marriage that she missed the changes in his body language which were very apparent to us.

This is just such a different show than what we usually have. First of all a Bachelor that actually wants to find the love of his life and did give everyone a chance. I think that Sean, throughout this journey, did change his way of thinking. It appeared that he came into it with a checklist that he was using to come to his final decision. And the frontrunners seemed to meet his checklist. He appeared to be interested in Catherine from the very first night, but he thought at first that she didn't have any romantic feelings towards him. Once they got past that hurdle, then he began to evaluate their lifestyles and how well their thoughts for the future meshed. The HTD was crucial for this. I think he knew he was falling for her after HT's, but he still had questions about whether they were in the same place in their lives at the same time. I think there was no way she was on the chopping block at HT's. He might not have known that she was the ONE for him for the rest of his life, but he wasn't ready to let her go without finding out. The FD was critical because he found out that they had much more in common than he had previously thought and found out that she was ready for commitment. His body language towards the frontrunners started to change in St. Croix. About St Croix, ChrisH said that the ones he still had doubts about were the the ones that had 1-1 dates. That means that even at that time, he had doubts about AshLee. On the group date, Lindsay and Catherine seemed to be jealous that Sean focused most of his attention on Des, but I think he was having doubts about her as well, and wanted to spend more time with her for that reason.

At the end of the day, I think that beyond physical attraction, it came down to someone that is adventurous, that will challenge him. Someone that he feels comfortable with, no matter what the situation. That allows him to be himself and brings out the inner nerd in him. And he discovered that he didn't have to have his checklist met (as in be a female version of him) but it was OK to be with someone that complements his personality and life. If things had not worked out with Catherine, I don't think he would have proposed to anyone.

Well said and my thoughts exactly. In one of the other threads I express something similar. His original checklist seemed to focus on faith, morals, intelligence, sweetness and humour. AshLee had all of those other than the humour. But, Sean is also, easy going, fun loving, adventurous...AshLee...clearly not. This part I think of as personality type vs. the first part which seemed to focus more on similar background. AshLee meshed with him on background, not so much on personality. Catherine was the opposite...different background/lifestyle, but similar temperaments/personalities. I think it took him a bit to figure that out...exactly as you described it. Based on what we have learned, I really think they could be a good match...given that they are both committed. Their similarities could keep them grounded, but, their differences could ensure that things never get boring.

[Catdwoman50]

Not sure if we pulled this in yet. Sneak peeks for next week:

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[Love_Me]

Not sure if we pulled this in yet. Sneak peeks for next week:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thanks so much for posting these! I hadn't seen them yet! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[luvstx]

Not sure if we pulled this in yet. Sneak peeks for next week:

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Thanks, Cat. Interesting viewing...

Re: Tierra. Check out her forehead. The scar appears to be gone. And the eyebrows don't move so much. Weird.

Re: Des. Love her without bangs. Much more sophisticated look.

Re: Sarah. I'm sad that she still feels so deeply about what happened with Sean. I hope she stays out of the BachNation bubble and finds herself a great caring guy. She deserves the best.

[Kwpn12]

I remember on Jason & Molly's season, Jason saying that he initially picked Melissa because she was "his type" ... the kind of girl he always went for ... and that Molly was very different from the girls he'd gone out with the past. But when he found himself thinking about Molly he started to realize what was missing from his past relationships and why none of them had worked. I think Sean came to realize that with Catherine. She may not have stood out to him at first, but gradually he started to see that this girl who was his equal in intelligence and "nerdiness" was what he really needed. I think Catherine surprised him as much as she did us.

[RealityEscape]

KWPN - totally agree - just wrote something similar in the Catherine thread but you say it better.

Can someone briing over a pic of Des without the bangs? I've been wondering what she'd look like without the side bangs and I bet it'd be even more appealing to guys. Also makes me wonder if a stylist has been involved and if it's a hint she's the Bachelorette?

[Guest]

Most of her recent pics show she is growing her bangs out, here is one:

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[Alanna]

Des is gorgeous! Ashley looks with Ali stealth witchy personality. I can't wait! Makings of the perfect ette.

[HowSoonIsNow]

Ashley's subtle makeover looks great. Lighter hair, subtle fluffy curls, less eye makeup, tanner, and a big smile on her face, like she's lightened up a bit (or at least has for the moment). She seems a lot happier.

Would be interesting to see the Bachette with a double lead of Des & Ash.

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