Re: Bachelorette 7 General Discussion - Thread #2

[allykat]

It's funny how we take different things from these vlogs. Those that love everything JP saw that he was being super supportive of Ash but my suspicious mind took something quite different from it. JP started off empathizing with Ashley and saying she was handling the Bentley situation and the pressure pot as well as she could but to me he looked sad/worried almost. Then he used the Ash situation to lead into talking/ defending his own insecurities. The overriding thing I took away from this was that the viewer should not judge (him?) and to basically don't knock it until you are put in this situation and under this kind of pressure in this uniquely stressful situation. I felt that he was using this vlog to to maybe get his point across to excuse/explain some reactions that we haven't seen yet. I almost got the feeling that he was a little scarred by this whole experience.

OK probably time to :hidingchair

I actually agree with what you saw. I also thought he was defending both himself and Ashley, and seemed to be a little forward looking and defending things that we haven't seen yet. I just came to a different conclusion. I'm sure he knows that people are thinking she was too into Bentley to end up with someone and will doubt their relationship at the end. It's probably because I'm riding the JP tram, but I thought he seemed to be kind of reporting out for both of them and defending their journey together.

[Hotmomma]

It's funny how we take different things from these vlogs. Those that love everything JP saw that he was being super supportive of Ash but my suspicious mind took something quite different from it. JP started off empathizing with Ashley and saying she was handling the Bentley situation and the pressure pot as well as she could but to me he looked sad/worried almost. Then he used the Ash situation to lead into talking/ defending his own insecurities. The overriding thing I took away from this was that the viewer should not judge (him?) and to basically don't knock it until you are put in this situation and under this kind of pressure in this uniquely stressful situation. I felt that he was using this vlog to to maybe get his point across to excuse/explain some reactions that we haven't seen yet. I almost got the feeling that he was a little scarred by this whole experience.

OK probably time to :hidingchair

This is good..Maybe he worried about them showing his jealousy....BUT the one thing that did stand out was..There are some good things going to happen to Ashley..

[ninu]

A little bit OT, but I was rewatching the FRC preview, and I know there had been some discussion about what Ash looked like when she was looking @ GSG... I caught these two caps riiight before it cuts to the next scene -




JMO but this does not look like someone who's about to dump GSG - that plus the lower-orange lighting tells me that GSG is F1 - and DSG is F2 (that's if we're assuming a conventional FRC of course ) I just like the fact that Ash looks so content and relaxed looking at her F1 - at this point I almost wouldn't care if that's a monkey in a tux in front of her

[Reidiscool]

It's funny how we take different things from these vlogs. Those that love everything JP saw that he was being super supportive of Ash but my suspicious mind took something quite different from it. JP started off empathizing with Ashley and saying she was handling the Bentley situation and the pressure pot as well as she could but to me he looked sad/worried almost. Then he used the Ash situation to lead into talking/ defending his own insecurities. The overriding thing I took away from this was that the viewer should not judge (him?) and to basically don't knock it until you are put in this situation and under this kind of pressure in this uniquely stressful situation. I felt that he was using this vlog to to maybe get his point across to excuse/explain some reactions that we haven't seen yet. I almost got the feeling that he was a little scarred by this whole experience.

OK probably time to :hidingchair

This is good..Maybe he worried about them showing his jealousy....BUT the one thing that did stand out was..There are some good things going to happen to Ashley..

Hotmama: LOL I remember Chantal saying something similar!!! Good stuff to come!
Allkat: IA this is a possible explanation

[pavalygurl]

I agree that the distinct behaviors post show might be the most telling, because short of MF concentrating his efforts to orchestrate this "switch" just to throw us off, with both guys willingly participating, I find it hard to imagine why JP would behave so lovingly towards Ashley in that vlog, while pretty much shunning all other media if he were F2, while just coincidentally, Ben would appear so uninterested and blase towards Ashley publicly if he's now engaged to and in love with her. It just seems too far fetched to buy into either scenario.

I have to take this one on. JP was told to talk about his date. He had no other option but to do that. Do you really think he'd have ignored her telling him about Bentley? Defending the criticism would have been natural to anyone who cared for Ashley and not just her f1. I can only assume that both cared about her to get that far but both weren't given a vlog to do. I also don't believe you should use JP not using social media as a clue because he doesn't use it for business.

Now Ben. Much has been made about him posting the link to that blog. It seems he's either a fan or a friend and doubt he sees it in the way some woman apparently do. I thought it was funny and if he is the f1 I'm sure he knows what wouldn't bother her. Now the tweets while perfectly innocent (someone said he invited former Bachelorettes to his winery which is not true) still seem less likely if he were the f1 and I'll freely admit that. Probably not proof but does make it less likely.

Not all f1 have been hidden after the show. They didn't have twitter then but some did go to viewing parties.

Thanks albean. If I may add to this the lost angeles blogger is a member here. He addressed the fact that some on here thought Ben was insensitive for re-tweeting the blog. In one of his first posts he admitted that he knows some things. In another post regarding Ben and Ash's reaction to the blog in question, he said something like "maybe they aren't like Brad and Emily, maybe they think it's funny." Then he said something like "or I could just be messing with you". So, anyway, maybe Ben and Ash think it was funny. That's my story for today, and I am sticking with it

[Alanna]

A little bit OT, but I was rewatching the FRC preview, and I know there had been some discussion about what Ash looked like when she was looking @ GSG... I caught these two caps riiight before it cuts to the next scene -




JMO but this does not look like someone who's about to dump GSG - that plus the lower-orange lighting tells me that GSG is F1 - and DSG is F2 (that's if we're assuming a conventional FRC of course ) I just like the fact that Ash looks so content and relaxed looking at her F1 - at this point I almost wouldn't care if that's a monkey in a tux in front of her

I'm so with you. She looks at him like "hmm, what now?" Totally happy and content and trusting of GSG.

[cfck2222]

Not only that, things DO change from episode to episode. Three guys have used the cloud 9 reference already (including Lucas), although Jordan reached it first. On tonight's show (per preview), she says of Ben: "I felt protected. I felt like he was the man and I love that." This ALMOST echoes what she said of both Bentley and Jordan. Granted, it doesn't carry quite as much "weight" but it DOES start to balance out the final two for the unspoiled viewer.

I totally agree.

On that note, who wants to point out more possible clues from tonight's episode? This might take us a while but I added one per category to get us started.

Why JP is F1
1: RS says JP is F1 and he and Ashley are engaged.
2: Fijiman says JP and Ashley are engaged.
3: Blondiegal has a source who says JP is F1 but this is not the source that has given Blondiegal the last 2 F1s.
3: Physical chemistry with Ashley, which with Bachelorettes, usually means the F1 (Meredith, Jillian, Ali, only Trista could be considered the exception). [Thanks ironcat]
4: Ashley told JP about Bent's return privately and before she told any of the other guys including Lucas with whom she had a solo date and everybody else she had a group date with.
5: Ashley's People blog for Episode 6 says "Truth is the only way to build a real love. And in more ways than one, this episode marks the beginning of my beautiful, truthful, honest, genuine love story." Episode 6 was Ashley's 2nd 1-on-1 date with JP and Ben F wasn't featured that prominently in it.
6: ET Canada claimed to have photos of them leaving the same place in New York within hours. Those pictures never surfaced in the US and it hasn't been verified that they were actually in the same place. However they were both in New York that weekend (June 25th/26th). JP was photographed in the subway and Ashley H was there visiting Ashley S.
7: Ashley said "Bye JP, Bye everyone!" at the end of her 6/27 Jimmy Kimmel interview.
8: JP had solo date in episode 3, same as F1s Ed, Roberto, Ian, Ryan, Jerry, Emily. No F1 has ever had first solo date in episode 5. [Thanks ironcat]
9: JP defended Ashley in his vlog for Episode 6 telling everybody to keep in mind that there are stresses people on the show are under that people watching at home may not understand.
10: Shadow/sun analysis appears to place JP (based on jawline and lack of hair around collar) at the FRC later than Ben F (IDd by hands and watch). [Thanks to many sleuthers]
11: OK and In Touch both said JP's F1 but in negative stories saying the relationship is over or not going well. In Touch's story has a few of the same key words/storyline ("jerk"/wandering eye) as a story on Roberto that came out last year after he was revealed as Ali's F1.
12: Life & Style said Ashley is engaged and her F1 had had his heart broken before but is in the "happiest he's ever been". Star quoted an unnamed friend of JP's saying he's in the "best place he's ever been".
13: West and Will both commented on Ashley's special connection with JP in their exit interviews. Will said "J.P. is a great guy, and if I could pick a guy for her I would pick J.P. I saw their interactions and the look on their faces when they got to be around each other, and it's that look two people have when they're really in love." Wes said ""I think based on my gut, just from seeing her interactions with people, I really thought that JP was going to be the one that she picked. They had this natural chemistry together. You could see whenever we were in a group together and he was there, she tended to gravitate towards him. There was just this easy kind of connection evident from them. I think he would make the best choice."
14: Not seen in New York when Ashley was in LA (she was spotted flying out to LA June 29th and back in Philadelphia airport July 5th-http://www.newspusher.com/EN/post/1309882501-2/exclusive-ashley-hebert-lands-in-philadelphia-airport-in-a-cheery-mood.html). JP allegedly spotted in New York July 6th (http://twitter.com/#!/JaimenLee/status/88756832562188290) "Willing to bet $$ I just saw the bachelorettes JP Rosenbaum on Park and 20th what does this mean?!?!"
15: Early in the season Ashley S was gushy about JP and Ashley H but made a crack about Ben F reminding her of the Geico caveman.
16: Chris H had a slip up in an interview when he was defending not telling Ash about Bentley. He said "should we tell Ali what Roberto said behind her back or should we tell Ashley what JP is saying" [thanks pattycake92]
17: In Ashley's 1st press conference after filming ending she said "Ashley Hebert: Yes, I mean I think what I realize is that I went into a thing I wanted just a good man and somebody who is loyal and a family man, and I think as time went on there were more things that I saw in the guys that I wanted but most importantly what I realize is that I wanted someone that made feel good and made me feel like a women, made me feel like I was able to be vulnerable. And so, yes, definitely as time went I started to realize more about what I wanted." She reiterated "I mean I am looking for somebody that I feel I can trust, like somebody that’s really loyal and a family man and I said that I go into it and I don’t know if I get them kind of being redundant here, but I just want somebody that makes me feel. I like my life off of my gut and intuition and I have learned to trust that and I think it has led me to some really great places. So I am just looking for somebody that makes me feel." In Ep 6 Ashley said the following about JP: "He’s such a loyal guy. He’s determined and he’s committed. He’s gonna be a great family man. He is the total package for me." and "I’m so comfortable around him, I feel secure, I feel relaxed, I feel like I don’t have a care in the world. It’s a good feeling, it really is a good feeling. I really feel like there may be somebody here for me." Ashley's 1st 1-on-1 date with JP involved her being tired and emotionally spent after Bent left and she said in the People blog JP was the best guy for that. [Thanks JBF]
18: In the same press conference Ashley said "How do I answer this without obviously saying too much? I have to say that there were points in time where I thought that I had a front-runner and things change quickly. I will tell you that, I mean, they go up and down and back and forth. Yes that’s I guess that’s all I am going to say." Bent was presented as an early frontrunner and so was William along with JP. JP's been the only steady frontrunner up to this point. [Thanks JBF]
19: Ashley gave JP the group date rose because of their conversation about the tough time he was having due to jealousy and said she thought there may be good things ahead for them.

Why JP is not F1
1: RS says JP is F1 and he and Ashley are engaged (Fleissed again?)
2: Fijiman says Ben and Ashley are engaged.
3: Physical chemistry edit didn't bode well for F2 Kiptyn (Jillian) or F2 Chantal (Brad)
4: Too obvious, too early.
5: Both his dates have been paired with the Bent storyline.
6: He's the public's favorite right now and the public favorite often isn't F1 but instead is being courted to be the next Bachelor.
7: The F1 has never been shown dealing with jealousy on the show. However, this wasn't a confrontational jealousy (which Ashley made sure to find out, with JP admitting it was more of a "don't want to talk to any of the guys" type of situation) and the conversation Ashley and JP had about it seemed frank, honest, and respectful.

Why Ben is F1
1: Fijiman says Ben and Ashley are engaged.
2: Hidden
3: West mentioned Ben F as somebody who's good with Ashley: " As far as maybe another person who would be up here, probably Ben F. He's really easy to get along with and super funny. He's always so laid back no matter what the situation and I thought that was really cool."
4: In her Episode 4 blog (when Ben F got the group date rose at the orphanage) Ashley said "Looking back at this week, the most important lesson I took away is that the best type of love starts off with a slow burn, and eventually turns into something much brighter than a spark ever could."
5: CH included Ben F among guys confident enough in his relationship with Ashley that he didn't react negatively to her news about Bent coming to Hong Kong.
6: Ashley S's gotten more balanced in her live tweets since the show started and Ben F actually tweeted her back when she complained about his yellow sweater.
7: TheBachelor.TV keeps tweeting out behind the scenes pictures of Ashley and Ben F
8: Ashley's twitter profile picture is of her from the Ep 2 dance date which was a group date where Ben F and his team won. [Thanks allykat]
9: ABC's May 3rd press release described Ben F as a "handsome broken hearted winemaker" meaning he might fit Life & Style's description of Ashley's F1. [Thanks happyntexas]
10: In the season's 1st press conference Ashley said "So I would have to say one of my favorite group dates was, we are in Thailand and we actually renovated an orphanage and that was the most rewarding and probably the most exciting group dates that I went on. I mean it's something that I will remember for the rest of life." Ben F got the group date rose from that date and Ashley commented in her blog about how much he impressed and touched her during that date. [Thanks JBF]
11: In the same press conference Ashley said "How do I answer this without obviously saying too much? I have to say that there were points in time where I thought that I had a front-runner and things change quickly. I will tell you that, I mean, they go up and down and back and forth. Yes that’s I guess that’s all I am going to say." JP was more of an early frontrunner than Ben F but this statement isn't that specific about when Ashley's frontrunners changed. [Thanks JBF]
12: Ben F razzed JP and said he (Ben F) had already kissed Ashley which seemed to get to JP. JP also said to Ashley that it kind of stung for the 1st time when he saw her arrive to pick up Ben F for his 1st 1-on-1. Showing JP knows he has reason to feel "threatened" by Ashley's connection with Ben F? Though JP also said he understood it's the "nature of the beast" and he can take it.
13: Ben F gets 1st overnight date and somebody gets jealous. Molly (F2 turned F1) got an overnight date during Jason Mesnick's Bachelor season.
14: The only date where Ben F and JP were both present (the group date to the Thai orphanage), Ben F got the rose.
15: Ashley VO says she thinks she's falling in love with Ben.

Why Ben is not F1
1: Ben F was one of CH's 5 "Ones to Watch" which has never included F1 for B'ettes (only 1 F1 in the B/ette franchise was in there: Shayne during Matt's season) [Thanks ironcat]
2: Fijiman says JP and Ashley are engaged.
3: Tweeting "Hi. I'm writing back." in reply to Michelle Money. Tweet deleted. Also socially tweeting Jesse K/Natalie Getz and several other people in the Bachelor world. Those tweets also deleted. Ben F is allegedly not the only person with access to the evolvewines twitter account. Mike F officially added to @evolvewines twitter profile on July 4th.
4: Jesse K said in Bachelorette Beatdown that he'd seen Ben F and he was sure Ben F was not F1. But he did not say why so we don't know if he just saw Ben F or saw him do something that would make it unlikely he's F1.
5: So hidden people see more of his bromance with Dino than his connection with Ashley.
6: Allegedly seen 3 or 4 times out in San Francisco area during July 4th weekend when Ashley had flown to LA to sit down with CH but also possibly spend a safehouse weekend with her F1: Puma Springs Vineyard posted on FB (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Puma-Springs-Vineyards/130364593709901) on July 1st about meeting with Ben and Mike from Evolve Wines ("Had a great meeting today with Ben and Mike from Evolve Wines who are going to be taking some of our fruit this year for their single vineyard Cabernet. Ben is currently on the Bachelorette show on TV and in two weeks the show will be aired from Benziger Family Winery who take the rest of our fruit.")

Ben from the bachelorette at the ferry building farmers market. Much cuter in person! #suchagroupie

Link not available but tweet was posted July 2nd by a lady who lives in San Francisco. [Thanks pattycake92]
A deleted tweet had Ben barrel tasting on July 3rd with B/ette producer @theyearofelan. [Thanks reason - did anybody else see the original tweet and who it came from?]
http://twitter.com/#!/according2alexa/status/88011357131255808

can't believe @caitzillla met Ben F from #bachelorette today! so patriotic!

July 4th. Location of sighting unknown.
7: Ben retweeted a link to a snarky blog (lost angeles) that included Ashley in its equal opportunity snark. But he is allegedly not the only one with access to the evolvewines twitter account. [Thanks Alanna]
8: Ben's vlog after his 1st 1-on-1 date was arguably dry and flat compared to JP's.
9: Ashley S. posted: "Honestly, I'm surprised about the tweeting as well. As soon as we were found out, they shut us down. However, I think it is in very poor taste for my season's girls or Ash's guys to tweet to each other about meeting up. I think they could wait 5 more weeks or use DM on twitter to at least be a little more discreet. That's uber-disrespectful to Ash and the show." -- posted on Tweets/Facebook Updates - Discussion - Spoilers by AshleyS on Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:26 am [Thanks Cari]
10: BenF's private time with Ashley during the cocktail party where she revealed Bent had visited in Hong Kong was not shown and he was only shown making a supportive but mild comment that Ashley will "figure it out" because she's a "smart girl" and "she needs to focus on the guys that are left." [Thanks ninu and JBF]
11: Previous overnight date went to F2 Chantal. Molly was technically F2 though she became F1.
12: If Ben F had really kissed Ashley before he razzed JP about it, they didn't show it which is strange.
13: Ben F was shown saying he didn't think JP would get the group date rose but JP did get the group date rose.

Links to People's B'ette coverage including Ashley's blogs: http://www.people.com/people/news/category/0,,MediaProductsTax:TVTheBacheloretteSeries_2,00.html

Ashley's press conference May 19th: (thanks JBF)
http://www.abcmedianet.com/assets/pr%5Chtml/051911_05.html

Watch list:
ColeDunlop (http://twitter.com/#!/ColeDunlop/status/89374182521053184):

@evolvewines great seeing you last night flan, next week will be awesome! Looking forward to sipping some cab 11:44 AM Jul 8th via Twitter for iPhone

Followed by @TheRealBGM whom @evolvewines tweeted (http://twitter.com/#!/evolvewines/status/90138472425328640)

Ashley allegedly spotted at King Of Prussia mall July 9th:

Just saw @ashhebert at the KOP mall. Completely adorable. And yes, I'm a guy that recognized The Bachelorette...deal with it.

From Fleiss's twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/fleissmeister/status/90126671037988864) and CH's FB (thanks atlanta1221) on July 10th:

Tomorrow night's show contains a revealing clue to the eventual outcome of Ashley's quest for love...

MTA outtakes (past seasons have featured a lot of J/Ed, Aliberto, Bremily) [thanks ninu, CarrieAlexander]

HTD dates: No goodbye between the lead and F1? [thanks ninu]

References to the future by the lead and F1 using approximately the same words? [thanks ninu]

HTD previews make Ben F's homecoming look really emotional and sweet with Ben F getting all teary and lovable and huggable. The previews show Ashley asking JP how he can be sure about his feelings for her and JP's mother is shown casting doubt on account of JP having gotten hurt in the past.

[Hotmomma]

It's funny how we take different things from these vlogs. Those that love everything JP saw that he was being super supportive of Ash but my suspicious mind took something quite different from it. JP started off empathizing with Ashley and saying she was handling the Bentley situation and the pressure pot as well as she could but to me he looked sad/worried almost. Then he used the Ash situation to lead into talking/ defending his own insecurities. The overriding thing I took away from this was that the viewer should not judge (him?) and to basically don't knock it until you are put in this situation and under this kind of pressure in this uniquely stressful situation. I felt that he was using this vlog to to maybe get his point across to excuse/explain some reactions that we haven't seen yet. I almost got the feeling that he was a little scarred by this whole experience.

OK probably time to :hidingchair

This is good..Maybe he worried about them showing his jealousy....BUT the one thing that did stand out was..There are some good things going to happen to Ashley..

Hotmama: LOL I remember Chantal saying something similar!!! Good stuff to come!
Allkat: IA this is a possible explanation

After tonight show now what do you think?

[ryvetted]

Holy Moly cfck! Thank you so much for breaking that all down for us! :urok:

[Guest]

Not only that, things DO change from episode to episode. Three guys have used the cloud 9 reference already (including Lucas), although Jordan reached it first. On tonight's show (per preview), she says of Ben: "I felt protected. I felt like he was the man and I love that." This ALMOST echoes what she said of both Bentley and Jordan. Granted, it doesn't carry quite as much "weight" but it DOES start to balance out the final two for the unspoiled viewer.

not sure if it makes a difference now, but Ryan used it tonight, too. He said he was on Cloud 9, then he said, no, cloud 10. (sheesh, Ryan always has to go over the top, doesn't he?)

[ironcat]

I agree that the distinct behaviors post show might be the most telling, because short of MF concentrating his efforts to orchestrate this "switch" just to throw us off, with both guys willingly participating, I find it hard to imagine why JP would behave so lovingly towards Ashley in that vlog, while pretty much shunning all other media if he were F2, while just coincidentally, Ben would appear so uninterested and blase towards Ashley publicly if he's now engaged to and in love with her. It just seems too far fetched to buy into either scenario.

I have to take this one on. JP was told to talk about his date. He had no other option but to do that. Do you really think he'd have ignored her telling him about Bentley? Defending the criticism would have been natural to anyone who cared for Ashley and not just her f1. I can only assume that both cared about her to get that far but both weren't given a vlog to do. I also don't believe you should use JP not using social media as a clue because he doesn't use it for business.

Now Ben. Much has been made about him posting the link to that blog. It seems he's either a fan or a friend and doubt he sees it in the way some woman apparently do. I thought it was funny and if he is the f1 I'm sure he knows what wouldn't bother her. Now the tweets while perfectly innocent (someone said he invited former Bachelorettes to his winery which is not true) still seem less likely if he were the f1 and I'll freely admit that. Probably not proof but does make it less likely.

Not all f1 have been hidden after the show. They didn't have twitter then but some did go to viewing parties.

I realize that nobody's going to change anybody else's mind at this point, but when I mentioned Ben coming across blase, I was referring to his demeanor on his vlog, which was about his date with Ashley, and IMO, he couldn't have sounded less enthusiastic about it. Maybe that's just his normal demeanor, but if you watch his vlog and JP's back to back, they are like night and day. Sometimes it's not just what you say, but how you say it that makes all the difference.

[JBF]

Not only that, things DO change from episode to episode. Three guys have used the cloud 9 reference already (including Lucas), although Jordan reached it first. On tonight's show (per preview), she says of Ben: "I felt protected. I felt like he was the man and I love that." This ALMOST echoes what she said of both Bentley and Jordan. Granted, it doesn't carry quite as much "weight" but it DOES start to balance out the final two for the unspoiled viewer.

not sure if it makes a difference now, but Ryan used it tonight, too. He said he was on Cloud 9, then he said, no, cloud 10. (sheesh, Ryan always has to go over the top, doesn't he?)

Yup, heard that too... I always thought he was there already though.

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